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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: dc51 on Sunday 29 November 09 00:45 GMT (UK)
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I'd Like to start this thread with a story from my grandmothers family in Phibsboro.
Charlie Egan arrived at the Healy house hold with a sack full of old British army uniforms. The women set about cleaning them and patching them up. A man by the name of Fallon who lived near by, was sent for as he had been in the BA during the war. They needed to know where to apply stripes, insignia etc...
The plan was a brazen one, to break a prisoner/s from prison (probably mountjoy) by getting access into the prison using forged papers and a fake British army escort.
Does anyone have any information on this event, did it actually happen? Were they successful?
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This sounds like an interesting family legend and probably contains a grain of truth.
Could you elaborate on some of the details as the period from 1916 to 1922 in your heading is very vague.
Who was Charlie Egan, who were the Healys and who was the gentleman named as Fallon? When did this incident take place?
Some more detail would be helpful if any meat is going to be put on the bones of a good story.
Dara.
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Family legend!? perhaps, that what I'm trying to find out.
Christopher Healy Lived at 188 Phibsboro Rd. He, his three daughters and two of his sons played an active part in the rising in 1916. His younger son Sean (Jack) was fatally wounded on easter monday at Doyles corner. a momorial flag stone was placed at the spot on his 90th anniversary.
Christopher's primary position or function during the troubles, was munitions, organizing, repairing and supplying them. Charlie Egan was his close associate through this times. As far as I know, his wife's name was Bridget and they had a family. They probably lived in the Phibsboro area? I'm hoping someone knows the family and they can help add to this.
I don't know much about Fallon, other then he lived close by and sometimes worked for Christopher.
Perhaps he has decedents who might have some information.
I have no date for the jail break story, other then some time between 1919 and 1921
There was also a Charlie Cole or Coles who was a regular visitor to the Healy household.
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That escape sounds a bit like one I've read.
Sean McEoin in Mountjoy.
The use of Uniforms in the escape rang a bell.
I'm not sure they got him out but other prisoners escaped.
The IRA noticed that the British always sent an armoured car out to an abattoir on the North Circular Rd.
The captured it and used it to get into Mountjoy. I think things went well up to the point that the prisoner wasn't able to be where they expected. But I think others escaped. Tom Keogh shot a sentry during it.
Other names involved were Emmett Dalton, Pat McCrea, Joe Leonard, Aine Malone and Tom Keogh. I'd imagine there were many more.
Maybe there was other occasions that British uniforms were used.
I found a good account of it in Curious Journey by Kenneth Griffith and Timothy O'Grady.
Well maybe someone could tell you is this the same escape or not.
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That escape sounds a bit like one I've read.
Sean McEoin in Mountjoy.
The use of Uniforms in the escape rang a bell.
I'm not sure they got him out but other prisoners escaped.
The IRA noticed that the British always sent an armoured car out to an abattoir on the North Circular Rd.
The captured it and used it to get into Mountjoy. I think things went well up to the point that the prisoner wasn't able to be where they expected. But I think others escaped. Tom Keogh shot a sentry during it.
Other names involved were Emmett Dalton, Pat McCrea, Joe Leonard, Aine Malone and Tom Keogh. I'd imagine there were many more.
Maybe there was other occasions that British uniforms were used.
I found a good account of it in Curious Journey by Kenneth Griffith and Timothy O'Grady.
Well maybe someone could tell you is this the same escape or not.
Well that's a lead any, I'll look that up, thanks very much
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dc51
I have some recollection that the same ruse was used by Allied Prisoners of War to escape from Colditz Castle during World War II.
Regards Quaxer
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Hello,
Christopher Healy, wife Helena and several children in Phibsboro Road in 1911 census. There is a Patrick Fallon and family also but that could be coincidence.
I can't spot Charlie/Charles Egan with wife Bridget but he could have married 1911-1916.
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Hello,
Christopher Healy, wife Helena and several children in Phibsboro Road in 1911 census. There is a Patrick Fallon and family also but that could be coincidence.
I can't spot Charlie/Charles Egan with wife Bridget but he could have married 1911-1916.
Hello Heywood,
I think Charlie may have married after 1922. This could be him in this link.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay__part_of_/Windsor_Cottages/82534/
I think he may have been single during that time. He may have lived a bit rough and ready, as he may have played the part of an old tramp when moving weapons, so he probably was'nt too young.
According to my mother, he may have been several years younger then her grandfather,Christopher.
I don't think the Fallon link is correct, as the age profiles don't fit, unless there was another young man of the right age to be in WW1. Although he could have been missing on the night of the census.
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Hello,
yes it could well be him - I saw that one for Egan. There is also a widow, Mrs Fallon in the Philsboro area (could be the mother) and young Mr Fallon could be anywhere- we have no first name so too many Fallons.
best wishes
heywood
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The only one I heard of using uniforms was the Failed Mountjoy escape, It was lead by Emmet Dalton (who was a British officer in WWI) & Joe Leonard. It failed because Mc Eoin was not in the Goveners office when they got there as planned. I would guess the uniforms where for Volunteers as Daltom wore his own uniform & Leonard wore Daltons spare which fitted him like a glove, Dalton rode into the joy sitting on the side of the armoured car as British officers did in those days.As far as I can remember they had to shot there way out, the armoured car over heated & was stripped of its guns & ammo & burned in marino.
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Thanks Gary,
This does help to clarify the story. My mother heard this story (and others) as a child in her grandparents house, Her aunts, who fixed up the uniforms, used to laugh about it (even though it was far from funny at the time) because when they went looking for Fallon that day, he was'nt there!! so they had to figure out the uniforms themselves. After the men had left on their operation someone realized that the stripes had been fixed on the wrong side!!
DC
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:D
Ok I just put that icon in to drive everyone mad.
I think everyone is thinking about the same escape.
The account in "Curious Journey" says they took over a house in the area to study the comings and goings of the armoured vehicle in the run up to the escape.
Just a thought. But some of those names that were involved have given Witness Statements.
Patrick McCrea witness statement is WS413
Joe Leonard is WS 547
It could turn up in one of their statements.
The statements would be held at Cathal Burgha Barracks Rathmines.
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Was the house they took over not a house of a family who had sympathy with the goings on at the time,I think I may be wrong with this that they tied the family up to make it look like the where held againest there will. OK next story DC ! BTW this one is covered in Fighting story's of Dublin.
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This story is well documented, because 3 of the volunteers were shot dead in the attack, 6 more were arrested and later executed in mountjoy prison.
It's said, that as the British army unit was approaching the bridge over the river Talka in Drumcondra, they were warned by a man by the name Pike from talka cottages.
This is probably him http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Drumcondra/Tolka_Cottages/28303/
I don't know how many volunteers escaped that raid, but I do know that Christy Healy Jr did. while most of the men gave themselves away when they ran, Christy doubled back into the gathering crowd.
Some time (weeks or months?) later Mr Pike was found dead, ?leaving a widow and several children.
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Christopher Healy (snr) was in the munitions division. supplying, organizing weapons and ammunition and repairing weapons. That meant having to smuggle them around the city undetected!
There was one occasion when he and Charlie Egan were pushing a hand cart with weapons or ammo hidden in it. They suddenly found themselves facing a security check point. they could'nt turn back for fear of bringing attention on themselves. Charlie was dressed like a tramp, so he said to Christy, "go on ahead" while he preceded to tear the arse out of his trousers. As he approached the soldiers they saw the state he was in and had a great laugh at the old tramp as they kicked his bare arse and sent him on his way.
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My fathers family had no hand act or part in the troubles of that time, yet he was able to tell me about the man (possibly Robert Pike) who was executed near tolka bridge after the failed attack.
My point is, there is lots of small bits of information out there. Talk to elderly parents and relatives. It may not always be that accurate, but record it anyway, before it's too late.
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Great thread, DC. In many of the contemporary accounts in newspapers the attempt to spring McEoin is simply referred to as the Abbatoir because, as Ms Smoketoomuch said, they hijacked the vehicle sent to collect meat for the soldiers. I came across it first in a couple of obituaries where it said things like "saw action at the Custom House and the Abbatoir." At first I had no idea what this meant but then I found the account of the incident in Dublin's Fighting Story. :)
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just wondering if anyone with stories about 1916 has come across any mention of a Richard Stokes ?
He was a draper, and lived in the Drumcondra area in 1911. The only details I know at the moment is that he was sent to Frongoch internment camp, but dont know for certain if he was actually involved in the rising in anyway or was just rounded up as a suspect ..
thanks,
Shane
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He's in the list of 1916 combatants given in Dublin in Rebellion by Joseph Connell, as Dick Stokes. He was in the 2nd Batt. :)
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thanks for that.. I'll have to start looking into at what the 2nd were up to...
Shane
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He's in the list of 1916 combatants given in Dublin in Rebellion by Joseph Connell, as Dick Stokes. He was in the 2nd Batt. :)
How do you guys know how to find all this stuff??
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Ah Dublin Rootchat, It's a mysterious and wonderful thing.
I'll never stop learning things from it.
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I am going to throw this into the ring here, As a Child living in Inchicore the man next door died, he was quiet old as I was around 8 at the time.His Widow Mrs Cusack used to be a heavy smoker like my Father at the time, so on summer evenings they would chat & have a smoke or two.Now I got to know Mrs Cusack very well as a child & she gave me some keep sakes which I still have most are from the Civil War period, she also gave me a Stop Press from the Four Courts which was made by the Anti treaty side (she took it back to give it to Sinn Fein) I always remember the Sinn Fein people calling up to see her even when she was in Hospital. I think her husbands name was William Cusack & I know for a fact his was a member of fianna na heireann as I seen a picture she had of him, in his uniform. I also remember her pointing out his sam brown belt which she said belonged to his brother who was an IRA officer around the same time. Does the name ring a bell does anyone know anything about William or his brother ?
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Hi Gary, It doesn't ring any bells offhand but I'll see what I can find. :)
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Hi Sean I would be very greatfull if you dig anything up.I think Mr Cusack died around 1977/78 if thats any help.
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Not really much here but a few snippets.When I was a kid my Aunt told me about her Uncle Johnny being in the IRA, I was a bit shocked as it was the height of the troubles.Some of the funny ones where one day while being chased he ran into the house or tenament room & dropped his revolver into the milk jug as he knew the Black & Tans would not look there.Another place he hid his Gun one day while being chased was under his Mothers nightsdress as she was dying at the time & again he knew the tans would not move her.
One day there was a knock on the door & some men where looking for Johnny,My Granfather (his brother) answered the door "Is Johnny there " asked the men , no said my Granfather he has gone out with naming names.That night Johnny came home in a rage, the grabbed my Granfather by the throat & told him he would F*****n Kill him if he ever told anyone where he went or who he went out with again.
Again not much just a couple of snippets to keep the post alive.
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I really love the personal accounts. They really put a human face to the whole movement.
Jug of milk! that was thinking. I suppose it was all about quick thinking
My Grannie hid her husbands bullets under the baby in the pram. On another raid she flirted with the soldier, he kissed her hand. In the other hand behind her back was some bullets.
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I have heard that my Granfather trained with the IRA & was sworn in (due to his brothers influence) . From what I can make out the only thing he did that I know of was hide guns for them,under a mattress while his wife was pregnant,the after effect I was told was my Granmother suffered a nervous breakdown.So I think that's the human side of it.
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I don't think it was really valued what the wives were put through. And all the glory given to the volunteers themselves.
There's a story of someone comforting my Grannie because she was expecting and she could hear artillery coming from the city. They kept telling her it was the barrels in Guinness's. She had her first child while her husband was in Frongoch. He was imprisoned a number of times so I'd say it was likely he wasn't there for other important times too.
I always think of her having ten kids in the background while he got the glory. And she supported him so many ways.
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Oh I agree Mrs Smokestoomuch, the other thing was the abuse & the gun shots over there heads from the Tans as they went shopping etc, no one ever talks about that.
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There is a heartbreaking account in one of the witness statements - Bill Stapleton, I think - where he recounts that Thomas O'Reilly showed the body of his brother Patrick to him with the powder burns around the wound in his face, and also said that he was nearly certain his other brother was dead in the George V Hospital. He wasn't sure how he was going to tell his mother that Stephen O'Reilly had also died. It brings it home to you that while there is an official rhetoric about heroism and sacrifice and glory, these were real people whose death left an immense gap in other people's lives and caused them immense grief and suffering, especially the women. Thanks for putting these stories online. I still haven't found anything about a William Cusack, though I have found references to a D Cusack. Any relation?
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As I said Sean it was 30 years ago since Mrs Cusack gave me that stuff,It could have been her husbands Brother, there are one or two items that I have never seen anywhere else which if there any good to you you can use in the Book your writing (but there mostly Civil war)
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Hi guys,
My father was born 14 sept 1922 in 31 Lr Dorset St. There was a reason he was born that day, as my grandmother went into premature labour. From what I'm told, my grandmother was heavily pregnant, probably close to her time, when a gun battle broke out outside. She was in the top floor and rebel forces were firing down to the street below where a free state army unit were passing. The army unit returned fire. They were not particularly good shots as there bullets flying through the window.
Anyway, my poor old granny got into such a state, my father was born in the middle of it. :)
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Did she christen your Da , Rick O'Shea ;D
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Hi guys,
My father was born 14 sept 1922 in 31 Lr Dorset St. There was a reason he was born that day, as my grandmother went into premature labour. From what I'm told, my grandmother was heavily pregnant, probably close to her time, when a gun battle broke out outside. She was in the top floor and rebel forces were firing down to the street below where a free state army unit were passing. The army unit returned fire. They were not particularly good shots as there bullets flying through the window.
Anyway, my poor old granny got into such a state, my father was born in the middle of it. :)
Could have been worst, they could have been Tan Bullets ! there was a lot of FS soldiers that had little or no training,they where shown how to load & fire a 303 & that was about it !
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my grandfather was in E Company 2nd battalion Dublin Brigade old I.R.A. His Name was Thomas
Reilly, sometimes used O'Reilly. His cousins were Kavanagh's also involved. I think he was on a wanted list
as my mother can remember the house being searched for him They lived in Fairview at the time but can find no record of membership of E Comnpany. Any information appreciated. He died in 1975 and had I.R.A funeral.
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Are we talking about 1916?
Do you know the name of the road he was from either in the 1911 or in 1916?
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Hi Turvey, my granddad was also in E Company 2nd Battalion Dublin Brigade during the War of Independance. I have been trying to find information about this brigade, but there does not seem to be any. All I know for certain is that it was involved in the burning of the Custom House in 1921. There is a seperate thread about that if you care to have a look.
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many thanks for reply. He lived on the Malahide Road in 19lland then moved to
Claremount Lodge Donnycarney( which is now a housing estate). Then moved to
Fairview about 1918. I didn,t know about Custom house thread so will take a look.
I aim to speak to my uncle this weekend to see if can remember anything abut the
Custom House. He is very old but is all there. Will post any information. Many thanks again.
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He may have applied for a pension.
The dept of Defence keep them.
If he applied there would be loads of info on that about what he got up to.
I think if you are looking for the pension its a fairly long wait.
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I have an interesting image I'd like to post. it's the notice of internment my grandfather received the night he was arrested. As far as I know, it's the only one left in existence.The problem is, its in two pieces each over 800kb. Any suggestions?
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No takers on the chance of doing up a historic picture?
I don't for a minute think that there isn't some knowhow about that on this site.
I have the software for doing this type of thing. But I'm no expert.
I have a tutorial to help though.
I'll give it a go if nobody better turns up.
Send a private message if that's the case.
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Ok to keep the ball rolling here on the stories I'm going to post my grandfathers account of a raid on the Great Northern Railways depot.
I don't know what age he was giving this account. If there are any inaccuracies I'll be glad if they are discussed. He just left an account with his children. He left no Witness Statement.
It's long so it might be in a number of parts.
In August 1918 I was ordered to go to Oriel Hall. I was to be there at 12 midnight. I told my wife Margaret I would be late and she should not wait up for me. I was given a gun when I arrived at the hall. The hall was situated beside the wall of the Great Northern Railway Goods Yard. Leo Henderson was in charge of the operation. He told us that there was 100lbs of gelignite in one of the sheds and our job was to take it. We climbed over the surrounding wall. Inside the wall it was very dark.
In the distance we could see a British Sentry outlined as he passed by a very well lit office. As a young boy I had worked in the bookstall on the station and I was very familiar with the layout of the Railway yard. Mick Mc Donnell was in charge of my small group. He told two men to go and take charge of the well lit office. At this time the sentry had moved over to the engine shed. In the distance we could see the two men go into the office and come out again and stand outside. Mick Mc Donnell said "What the hell are they doing?" He turned to me and John Comber and told us to go to the office, take it over and send those two fools back.
We went back to the office and sent the men back. As we entered the office a railway guard who was writing in a ledger looked up. I told him to put his hands up. The guard who was badly shaken did so. Minutes later a stoker came in the door. We told him to put up his hands which he did. He then said "I don't know what you two are up to, but I'll have you know my train has to leave at 2.30 am. We told him to stand beside the guard and shut up. He did so. Outside we heard the sound of running feet. There was a thud and a groan as if someone had hit the ground. Tom comber and I looked at each other. I tightened the grip on my gun and pointed it towards the door. A fireman entered followed closely by Tom Keogh who had a gun stuck in the firemans back. There was blood coming from the firemans face. Tom explained he tried to get away and I had to stop him. We put him over beside our two other prisoners. The door opened and a foreman came in asking "what the hell is going on here?" He was an aggressive sort of man we put him beside the other three. Minutes later this man was moving closer to me I pointed my gun at his head and told him if he moved another inch I would shoot him. He moved away and sat on an upturned fire bucket. The small office was getting very crowded now. Thirty minutes had now passed since we first entered the office it felt like two hours. As we did not know what was happening outside I was feeling a bit nervous.
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(cont.)
Our lads had removed their boots and moved silently towards the gelignite shed which contained 1000lbs of gelignite. It was guarded by a policeman. Martin Savage crept up behind the policeman and stuck a gun in the back of the neck telling him to put his hands up. He was then bound and gagged and tied to a girder which supported the roof.
The work then started. We had to get the gelignite over to the wall where we entered the yard. It took one hour to get it outside and on to a truck. It was then taken to a derelict ashpit where it was concealed. The job now finished, we separated and made our way home. I made my way home through the back streets to avoid British army patrols.
I lived in a flat over a shop on Summerhill Parade. I found it hard to sleep that night. My mind kept going over the nights work. Next morning I went to work very tired. I worked as a coach painter in a garage in Donnybrook. That evening when I returned home from work a British soldier was standing outside my halldoor. My wife who was standing on the opposite side of the street beckoned to me to come over to her. When I did she told me she had taken the ammunition which we had in our house and put it in the baby's pram underneath the mattress. She then placed the baby on top of it. There were soldiers placed every few yards along the street. They were backing up detectives who were searching all the houses in the street. We decided we would go to my wifes mothers house until the search was over.
My mother-in-law's house was situated on the banks of the Royal Canal. Her family had a haulage business using four canal boats. We had our tea and after tea my brother-in-law and myself sat on one of the boats and talked of the days events. It was a lovely sunny evening and as we talked I noticed a man looking down from the bridge who I recognised. It was detective Johnny Barton. He had been watching us for some minutes now. To my relief minutes later he moved away.
Michael Smith E company.
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E Company 2nd Battalion was involved in the raid on Jacobs Biscuit factory as well as the Custom House.
My grandfather gave talks on his experiences to some schools on the North side during the 1950,s, some one might remember him. There was another Thomas Reilly involved who was shot (also with a brother called patrick). My family thought he was killed for a couple of days until he got word he was still alive and it was the other Thomas Reilly.
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He's in the list of 1916 combatants given in Dublin in Rebellion by Joseph Connell, as Dick Stokes. He was in the 2nd Batt. :)
How do you guys know how to find all this stuff??
He's in the list of 1916 combatants given in Dublin in Rebellion by Joseph Connell, as Dick Stokes. He was in the 2nd Batt.
How do you guys know how to find all this stuff??
http://www.lilliputpress.ie/author.html?author=Connell%2C+Joseph+E.A.
All the participants in the Rising are listed.
The book is composed of stroies of the period between 1913 and 1923
I am not trying to sell books here, but do request copyright notice if the book is used.
If I can answer questions, I’ll try.
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Just for general information. The irishmedals site is fantastic, it gives listings of all participants
of the uprising at the areas concerned. Found my grandfather listed on the Jacob biscuit site.
This was E company 2nd batallion. Hope this helps others trace relatives.
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To Gary ;
Am collecting folklore on marino/fairview - could you tell us more on this
story and background. Do you know the location where the burnt the car ?
"Dalton rode into the joy sitting on the side of the armoured car as British officers did in those days.As far as I can remember they had to shot there way out, the armoured car over heated & was stripped of its guns & ammo & burned in marino".
Regards,
CPH
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Sorry I dont know what part of Marino they burned the car out in.The full story is covered in The Squad by T.Ryle O Dwyer.I just got a copy of My Great Uncles Army Records a few weeks ago & one of his actions listed is the capture of an armoured car on the NCR ! So I have a family link to the story !
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Hi all
This is a great idea to have a thread on stores from 1916
My grandad Michael Whelan was a member of the battalion below
4th Dublin City Battalion I.V.
Commandant E. Céannt
Vice-Commandant, C Brugha
Muster Point, Emerald Square, Dolphin’s Barn
Muster, 100.
He was interned in Frongoch and released on 24th Dec 1916.
Here is my story which was just recently told to me by my mother.
"One night there was crossfire between the belfry in Dolphins Barn Church, Dublin and the Distillery in Marrowbone Lane, Dublin. Now my grandad lived very near to Dolphins Barn, Emerald Square. Michael's mother (Anne Whelan nee dwyer) was upstairs on the landing in Emerald Sq praying with her rosary beads, upon hearing all the crossfire, she was praying for Michael's safety, hoping he would not be killed. While standing on the landing praying, a bullet came through a very small side window frame not the glass but the wooden frame, and whizz passed Anne Whelan and into the wall, she was so lucky she was not killed."
Can anyone explain what Muster point is, why I ask is that My grandad lived in Emerald Square and its just a co-incidence that this Muster point is Emerald Square. Also I cannot find anthing on Michael Whelan. His father was Patrick Whelan but I do not know if he was a member
Regards Genseacher
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The Rebels arranged to meet are various places around Dublin so that they could arrive at the places they were to occupy in groups rather than turning up one at a time. The 1st Battalion and the Citizen Army gathered at Liberty Hall before marching to the GPO. The link below shows the various different muster points.
http://irishmedals.org/gpage8.html
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My Grandfather's brothers were involved in the 1916 Uprising but I don't know what their involvement was. Can anybody help please.
This is what I know.
Stephen Pollard was arrested during the 1916 Easter Uprising in Dublin and was imprisoned in Frongoch Camp in Wales. From the book that I have recently purchased "1916 Rebellion Handbook" it states that The prisoners of Frongoch Camp were released at 6 p.m. on Friday 22nd December 1916.
Buried in Glasnevin Cemetery.....Pollard, Lieut. Francis Domino, d. 2 May 1970, s/o Joseph & Margaret nee Lawless ( Four Courts Garrison 1916)
Francis Dominic Pollard's obituary.
POLLARD (Dublin) - May 2, 1970, at his residence, 14 Galtymore Pk., Drimnagh,
Francis Dominic, dearly beloved husband of Louisa Pollard (nee O'Sullivan)
late Lt. C. Coy., First Batt., Dublin Brigade, Old I.R.A., member of Four Courts Garrison, 1916; deeply regretted by his loving wife, brothers, relatives and friends. R.I.P.
1911 Dublin City census: at home with parents at Lower Dominick St.
Louisa O'Sullivan is also mentioned in the 1916 Rebellion Handbook as being one of 64 Women who were released by the military authorities after having their cases fully investigated on the 22nd May.
Regards...Teresa
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Teresa
I think I can confirm your relative's presence in Frongogh. The book "Frongogh: University of Revolution" by Sean O'Mahony (publ 1987) has an extensive list of those imprisoned in the camp and includes, among those from Dublin, "Pollard, Frank, 31 Lower Dominick Street". I can't find any other reference to him in the book. The 1916 Handbook includes lists of prisoners transferred from Dublin to England in May 1916. You will probably find his name among them and the English prison where he was lodged before being sent to Frongogh. Another book worth exploring is "Dublin in Rebellion: A Directory 1913-1923" by Joseph E. A. Connell Jnr (Lilliput Press 2009). It has lists for the various garrisons in 1916 as does the Irishmedals.org website.
Dermo
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Thanks for that Dermo. Much appreciated.
Yes that's Francis Pollard, aka Frank.
He is listed in the 1916 Rebellion Handbook as being amongst the 289 prisoners who were removed from Richmond Barracks, Dublin on 30th April and lodged in Stafford Detention Barracks on 1st May.
I also noticed that a Michael Lawless was mentioned in the thread earler on. I'm wondering if that was his Uncle, Michael Lawless, twin brother of my Gt Grandmother Margaret Lawless. I've only recently discoverd his baptism record. They were from Kingstown Co. Dublin originally.
Fascinating to find out this information about the 1916 uprising. My Irish relatives never mentioned anything to us cousins about this!
I can see now why my Mum's birth wasn't registered in Dublin in 1916. It must have been chaos in Dublin back then. Good job she had a copy of her Baptism record!
Teresa
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Hi Tmp48
Probably not close relatives but in the book "no ordinary women" there was mentioned two Pollard sisters that were in Jacobs. Maybe cousins?
Was there no issue of birth cert for your mother because she was born during the Rising. I've been curious about certs for that week.
My grandfather was in Jacobs. He could see into homes beside the factory during the week. I think he was on the roof. Anyhow he watched a family with a child's coffin. They were not able to bury the child because of the chaos. I think he found that quite disturbing. He later was an acquaintance of Sean O'Casey. O'Casey used that imagery in the "Plough and the Stars".
But I've often wondered who was that family and would it be impossible to find a death cert.
I can't explain why that interests me, but it does. :-\
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Hi Smokestoomuch
My Mum was born 5th June 1916 which was a month or so after it all started, but from what I’ve read, Dublin city was still in chaos then. I can only assume her birth wasn’t registered because of the situation.
As all of her other sisters births were registered, it seems a logical explanation to me.
The Pollard sisters you mentioned could well be cousins of my grandpop and his siblings but I only know of a few of their aunts and uncles.
Mary Anne Pollard born 25th Nov 1864, at 20 Bolton St, Dublin. (Birth Cert.)
Mary Bridget Pollard born 1st Feb 1866, at 20 Bolton St, Dublin. (Birth Cert)
Thomas Richard Pollard born 19th Nov 1867, at 20 Bolton St. Dublin. (Birth Cert)
William Francis Pollard born 12th Feb 1870, at 17 Bolton St. Dublin. (Birth Cert)
Michael Stephen Pollard born 17th Dec 1871, at 17 Bolton St, Dublin. (Birth Cert)
Don’t know anything else about them at all, except for their parents names of course.
Teresa
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Great tread,
My grand father Edward lyons was in Jacobs at easter ,He also took part in the raid for the gelignite which mR SMOKESTOMUCH mentioned earlier,I was great to hear an account of it as i had not to much information on it as my grandad died in 1942,
I am looking for some information on the outpost of jacobs, bamarks in fumbally lane . there is not much about it on the web.
If anybody has come across the following names i would be greatful for any Information , Possibly all of them were out in 1916, I have a letter from Noel moore from just before the truce from tintown in the curragh .I know james caffrey was in mountjoy sometime after the rising but was not in the rising.
James caffrey,
Paddy kelly
Mick kelly
or Noel Moore
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Hello tmp48, dont know if this is a relative, I have a Witness Statement no. 727 made by Michael Joseph Lawless, member of "E" Co.2nd Battalion, Dublin Brigade subject a) National Activities 1913 - 1922.
b) College of Surgeons and Jacobs Factory, Dublin, Easter 1916
c) Bloody Sunday.
Some of my relatives were involved in the same operations and I have confirmed 2 of them were members of "E" Co, 2nd Battalion, Dublin Brigade.
CSM
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Ooooo, could well be a relative!
My Gt grandmother had a twin brother Michael Lawless, born 1859 so could be his son or grandson even!
You know how family names are passed down from each generation!
Very interesting indeed.
Teresa
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Barry lyons, this might be of interest
Dublin's Fighting Story 1916, told by the men who made it.
Page 108
Michael Mallin, who commanded this Citizen Army force, took over the Green on Easter Monday.A contemporary account speaks of this as one of the boldest act of the rebels and talks of the systematic way in which they set about digging themselves in. Outposts attached to the Stephens Green command carried out subsidiary operations. Captain R.McCormack seized Harcourt Street railway station. LIEUTENANT M.KELLY held the railway bridge over the Grand Canal.............. Later the men at the smaller posts helped to swell the the Stephens Green garrison UN-quote
Same book - page 338
Having received instructions to remove some military goods from a laundry at Inchicore on 8 July 1921, I went with the late PADDY KELLY and the late Joseph O,Toole of the 4th battalion ASU, and after we had commandeered a Ford van at Dolphins Barn we set out for Inchicore.........................As we cleared a bend of the road, which had limited our view to 20 yards ,we were appalled to see , bearing down on us, a party of military numbering about 25, with an officer at their head. They were coming at the double, with rifles at the ready, and as soon as we were sighted, the officer shouted a command to halt. His command was the signal for O,Toole and myself to cock our guns , while we told KELLY who was driving to accelerate and burst through, as we had done before, KELLY, who thought our decision unwise, pulled up and undoubtedly saved our lives by his action
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Just Wondering does anyone know anything about A Coy 3 rd Battalion & there actions in 1921 ? I just found out my Granfather was a member for a few months pre truce.
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Hello Gary, let me know your grandfathers full name and I will check my records for you.
CSM
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Hi Capel Street man,his name was William Deering,know by most as Bill.
Thanks Gary
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Hello Turvey, I am trying to compile a list of names of Volunteers who were members of "E" Co 2nd Battalion, Dublin Brigade , any information you could supply would be appreciated.
I am looking for the following, how old they were , date of birth if known, if they were married, any children, single, where they lived, any medals, what line of work they were in, any known operations they were involved in, any stories you might have been told or passed down through the family, also where they were educated.
My grandfather, Commandant Michael Duffy and some of his brothers were members of "E" Co.2nd Battalion Dublin Brigade, my grandfathers brother, Thomas Duffy, made a Witness Statement, no. 1409, it refers to the operation at 38 Upper Mount Street, 21st November, 1920, known as Bloody Sunday, a copy of it is on the Michael Collins and the Squad site by Corisande, that is where my interest comes from
C.S.M.
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Hello Margnip, the same request as I have posted to Turvey if that is possible
C.S.M.
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Hello Smokestoomuch, read your post on the operation at the G.N.R.Goods yard, great story, as you can see from the previous posts,I am looking to compile a list of members of "E" Co. 2nd Battalion, Dublin Brigade.
Would you be able to help me out with the information on your grandfather, Michael Smith.
Also, is there any way of confirming if the names mentioned in the raid were all members of " E" Co.
Leo Henderson, Mick McDonnell, John Comber, Tom Keogh and Martin Savage ?
C.S.M.
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CSM I am going to be doing research into the death of Tom Keogh in the near future (family illness is stopping me now) my reason for this is my Great Uncle (J.Wilson) was with him when he died.So I am interested to see if I can find out more on it.Also I am looking for any picture of Keogh in uniform with other soldiers as I think Johnny Wilson may have been his Adjutant Officer.
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Hello Gary, haven't been able to find anything out on William/Bill Deering but will keep an eye out for you.
I am a recent contributor to the site but have been checking through some of the threads and the amount of work and research some of you have done is amazing, the likes of yourself, Corisande, MsSmokestoomuch, Seanod to name but a few, do not take offence for all the other missing names but I take my hat off to all of you, well done.
I am going to post a quote from a young Volunteer on( the looking for members of "E" Co.2nd Battalion site) which I think reflects a lot of the comments I have read, mainly to keep the history and tell the stories of these forgotten men and women for future generations..
CSM
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I have to agree CSM, The problem was that a lot of the older generation did not talk about these things,MY Granfather only started letting a few things slip just before he died,My Great Uncle never spoke about the WOI & the Civil War,in fact my side of the family knew more then his own children.I think after the Civil War they just wanted to forget the whole thing.
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Quite right Gary,wish I could airbrush my spelling mistake!
CSM
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Quite right Gary,wish I could airbrush my spelling mistake!
CSM
You can Csm,just click on the modify button and you can change it.
Anne
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Thanks for that Anne.
CSM
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Hello Turvey, I am trying to compile a list of names of Volunteers who were members of "E" Co 2nd Battalion, Dublin Brigade , any information you could supply would be appreciated.
I am looking for the following, how old they were , date of birth if known, if they were married, any children, single, where they lived, any medals, what line of work they were in, any known operations they were involved in, any stories you might have been told or passed down through the family, also where they were educated.
My grandfather, Commandant Michael Duffy and some of his brothers were members of "E" Co.2nd Battalion Dublin Brigade, my grandfathers brother, Thomas Duffy, made a Witness Statement, no. 1409, it refers to the operation at 38 Upper Mount Street, 21st November, 1920, known as Bloody Sunday, a copy of it is on the Michael Collins and the Squad site by Corisande, that is where my interest comes from
C.S.M.
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Hi Caple street man,
Thanks for the information, I was not sure if it was the same mick kelly but have got confirmation of this from his Nephew. it turns out he was a Lieutenant in the Citizen army and married a woman called mary highland whos name also appears in Dublin fighting stories. apparently she held up a milk cart at gunpoint and made them drive to the green to feed the Citizen army . Both her and mick ended up living in liberty hall in the 40s as caretakers ,and i was surprised that a drawing of mary went up for sale in adams and fetched 5 grand ( there was a sketck also by maud gonne on the other side).
so thanks for the info .
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Afternoon barrylyons, if it is the same M.Kelly, he is listed in the official list of the History of the Irish Citizen Army by R.M.Fox as being in the Stephens Green Garrison, a Mrs.Kelly ( Mary Hyland ) is also listed as being in the same garrison.
CSM
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Thanks again Mr Caple street, Yes it is the very same Mike kelly I will have to find a photo, I will have to get hold of a few books about the ICA, My gran was his sister ,who was also in the ICA or cuman na mban but not listed as was my grandad. On the other side my grandfather was in Jacobs and my gran was in cuman na mban as well.
Have you a connection with 1916 .
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You will have to get a copy of - History of the Irish Citizen Army by R.M.Fox, it mentions your relative, Mary Hyland in a chapter on Stephens Green, the book is quite rare but definitely worth reading, it gives a great insight about the 1916 Uprising. If you are based in or near Dublin, there is a shop called Stokes Books, 19 Market Arcade, South Great Georges Street, Dublin 2, you can check if he has a copy, I have had many books from there that have helped me in my research and understanding of the subject
Yes, my great Uncle, Patrick Duffy was in Stephens Green and the College of Surgeons, his future wife, Brigid Davis, was a member of the C.A, and was in Liberty Hall from the beginning and then in City Hall, they both would have known your relatives.
CSM
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Hi, I recently came across some information about my great grandfather Michael Smyth and it triggered my curiosity. fascinating reading! Now I am keen to find out as much as possible about him and his activities during 1916-1922. As far as I know he was a member of E Company 2ND Battalion Dublin Brigade and involved in the burning of the Custom House and the escape of three men from Kilmainham Jail. Until now my knowledge of that era in Irish history was vague but now I that have discovered some details it has come alive and I am keen to find out more. Any access to information, photos or advice on how to find out more would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime I am enjoying the wealth of information given by members posts. Thanks!
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Hi Fourth Generation, I am sure you have seen it here, but if your Great Grandfather got a pension or was ever in the army those records will give you a lot of information.Also there is a Custom House Group on Facebook, which members post pictures information etc.Also Capel Street Man here, has an interest in E Coy 2nd Batt he is a wealth of knowledge & has helped a lot of us here with information. Gary
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Welcome to the site fourthgeneration, I have a site - looking for members of " E " Co. 2nd Battalion and would be very interested in the information you have found out on your great grandfather.
My own family were members of "E" Co. 2nd Batt. Are you able to say what area of Dublin he lived in , 1916 - 1922 ? My grandfather helped in picking the men with Tom Ennis in the Custom House operation
CSM
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Hi Gary, Thanks for your reply. I got my original information from Michael Smyth’s application for his pension and the statements given and letters written by others supporting his application. I am delighted to hear that there is a Custom House Group on Facebook and I will look that up. I also hope to look up his military records. I am only at the early stages of my research and I know it will be a long process but if the past week is anything to go by, I am sure it will be most rewarding. Thanks for your help.
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Thanks for the welcome CSM. I look forward to finding out more about E Coy 2nd Battalion. My research is only in the early stages but I have seen Tom Ennis’s name mentioned several times. I think Michael Smyth lived in the Summerhill area of Dublin during that period. I will try to find out more. Thanks for telling me about your site. I will keep an eye out for anything with your family mentioned and will let you know if anything crops up.
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"there is a Custom House Group on Facebook"
There seem to be many Custom House groups, can you include the relevant link please?
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I have just come across a reference to a raid for shells on Rudge-Whitworth Stephen's Green at some stage between 1920- 1921 and was wondering of any rootschat members have had heard of it before or if there was any information out there about it. I get the impression from images online that it was a bicycle shop on Stephen's Green North and so I am wondering why it would be raided for shells?!