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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Cross Quest on Friday 27 November 09 21:41 GMT (UK)

Title: COMPLETED Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: Cross Quest on Friday 27 November 09 21:41 GMT (UK)
I am trying to trace the birth cert for a Alice A Davis, listed on 1871 census as age 4, born in Kent / New Cross. On census, living at 1 Albion Grove, Hackney. I have been searching for birth certs for 1866-1867 and have not found any stating Kent or New Cross. Can anyone advise what other areas / boroughs this might be listed as ? As I live in the frozen North, my knowledge of London is VERY limited! Any help would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: Little Nell on Friday 27 November 09 21:55 GMT (UK)
New Cross is an area of London near Deptford so I would suggest that you need Greenwich RD which included Deptford at that date.

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/greenwich.html

Might she have been Alice Albertina?  Birth registered Mar 1867 Greenwich 1d 727

Nell
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: Cross Quest on Friday 27 November 09 22:05 GMT (UK)
Thanks Nell, I will certainly check it out and let you know. Her brother (George Richard Davis) was aged 10 months on the same census, and his birth place listed as Forest Hill. I have ordered a cert for a birth at St George In The East for 1870 and it is the wrong one - I have found another birth listed at Bethnal Green - is that near Forest Hill? Sorry to be so clueless - but if anyone ever needs help with Newcastle or Cumbria, I'm the one to ask!
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: Little Nell on Friday 27 November 09 22:28 GMT (UK)
Forest Hill is Lewisham/Camberwell area, about three stations down the line from New Cross.  Not Bethnal Green, which is north of the Thames.  Forest Hill and New Cross are both south of the Thames.

I can't see George Richard at the moment.  :(

Nell
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: behindthefrogs on Friday 27 November 09 22:32 GMT (UK)
Forest Hill is south of the river Thames and Bethnal Green to the north.  Unlikely to be the right person unless you have another link.

Forest Hill was still country until after 1854 when the Crystal Palace was moved from Hyde Park.  That prompted the building of large houses in the area and the beginning of it becoming a suburb.

David
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: Valda on Friday 27 November 09 22:40 GMT (UK)
Hi

This website might help a little (it doesn't always translate older districts into modern equivalents).

http://www.british-towns.net/en/level_2_display_ByL1.asp?GetL1=203

If you put Forest Hill in the search engine in the top right hand corner it will tell you that that is in the modern day London borough of Lewisham (then as shown on the census Lewisham Kent), adjacent to Greenwich (see the website map) and both south of the river Thames. St George in the East and Bethnal Green (both at one time in Middlesex) are both in the 'east end' of London - north of the river Thames - modern day borough of Tower Hamlets.

Census night 1871 was 2nd April so if he was 10 months old his birth would be registered in the June or at the latest September quarter of 1870.

There is a George Robert birth registration in Greenwich? That's about the nearest

Births Sep 1870  
Davis  George Robert     Greenwich  1d 722


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 03 December 09 13:41 GMT (UK)
Sorry for the late reply to this topic.

Although civil registration started in 1837, it wasn't compulsory to register births until 1875 so there may not be a birth cert to find.

Have you found a baptism?

Dawn
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: jazzi0410 on Thursday 03 December 09 14:17 GMT (UK)
Useful info for me also
Jazzi
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: Cross Quest on Sunday 06 December 09 21:45 GMT (UK)
I have now got the birth certificate for Alice Albertina - thanks for that - as it is the right one ! With regard to the tip from Dawn about birth registration not being compulsory until 1875, I was not aware of that. How do I start tracing baptism records - if all I know is that George Richard Davis was living in Hackney in 1871 and census states birth place was Forest Hill ? Can anyone give me some tips and good web sites to use?
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: behindthefrogs on Sunday 06 December 09 21:59 GMT (UK)
The other point about early birth registrations is that the responsibility lay with the registrar rather than the parents. 

Marriages were easier because the vicar made a return and couldn't bury anyone without a certificate.

David
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: Valda on Sunday 06 December 09 22:17 GMT (UK)
Hi

Have you an indication from Alice's parents' marriage whether the couple were Anglicans or non-conformist?



Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: Cross Quest on Sunday 13 December 09 17:58 GMT (UK)
Hi Valda
I haven't yet been able to track down Alice's parents' marriage certificate. Her mother is German, and I am having trouble finding them before or after the 1871 census, so am starting to suspect that they were living outside England for some years. Just to complicate my search!!!
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: avm228 on Sunday 13 December 09 18:16 GMT (UK)
What was Alice's mother's maiden name, according to the birth certificate? 
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: avm228 on Sunday 13 December 09 18:29 GMT (UK)
This looks like a good candidate marriage for George and "Clara M", especially with the German surname:


Sep qtr 1871

George DAVIS
Clara Magdalena MAYER

on same page, Mile End 1c 1166.


Obviously if correct it means they were being economical with the truth about being married in the 1871 census, but that wasn't uncommon.

Anna :)
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: Valda on Monday 14 December 09 07:59 GMT (UK)
Hi

Registered in both surnames

Births Mar 1867
MAYER  Alice Albertina     Greenwich  1d 727
Births Mar 1867   
Davis  Alice Albertina    Greenwich  1d 727


It still only leaves the George Robert Davis birth registration in Greenwich registration district in 1870


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: tazzie on Monday 14 December 09 11:19 GMT (UK)
  Hi All :)

  With Forest Hill being Lewisham area how does this look as being a transcription error?

  George Richard MAIJER     Lewisham 1d   page 853   qt2 1870

  The page is a typed transcription but depends on the original hand writting to what was reproduced.

                  Tazzie
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: tazzie on Monday 14 December 09 11:24 GMT (UK)



   Looks more likely as  also ......

  Clara Emily Davis birth 1869 Lewisham q1
  Clara Emily Maijer birth 1869 Lewisham q1

  She died q2 1869 Lewisham registered as Maijer.

  Tazzie
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: behindthefrogs on Monday 14 December 09 11:58 GMT (UK)
It seems fairly certain that the actual birth certificate will show the surname in both of those births as Davis or Maijer.  Thus the birth was only registered once but occurs twice in the index as two surnames were specified.

David
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: tazzie on Monday 14 December 09 14:33 GMT (UK)



  Yes I think that would be right as that is on one of my certs...both names...
  however George Richard only seems to have been registered under Maijer as there is no corresponding entry for Davis.

                Tazzie
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: Cross Quest on Saturday 02 January 10 18:46 GMT (UK)
Valda and Anna, thanks for finding the marriage entry for me, I am going to get the certificate ordered, and also the birth certificate for George Robert in Greenwich - at least if it is wrong I can rule it out then, but I can imagine Robert might look like Richard with some handwriting! Happy New Year to you, and all the roots chatters ! 
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: Lazylover on Sunday 03 January 10 00:48 GMT (UK)
I'm also new to looking at the London / Middlesex records but lucky enough to be living near enough to get to the London Met. Archives.

They produced a document which helps identify the london parishs in relation to place name / district etc. It can be downloaded from here:

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/londonGenerations/

or if you just want the pdf its here: http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/londonGenerations/download/Places%20in%20London%20Boroughs.pdf

Hope this helps

Lazylover
Title: Re: Help needed with London boroughs
Post by: Cross Quest on Thursday 08 April 10 21:38 BST (UK)
Thanks so much for all you have found out for me about Maijer - I have had to have a few months off my research as my daughter has been ill, but am getting back into it now, and it is so wonderful to have logged on and discovered you have found all this out for me.