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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: Beckey on Wednesday 25 November 09 15:41 GMT (UK)

Title: Moulton - Savage
Post by: Beckey on Wednesday 25 November 09 15:41 GMT (UK)
This one I have been trying for some years to find.

John "Smalley" Savage b. 1819 Moulton, parents John "Eugene"Savage and Ann Smalley.

1841 lodge Sharp Rd. Moulton,Ag.Lab.
Have not found him in the 1851 census nor a death, but found 4 possible wives Sep.Qt. 1843 Lincoln v.14 p.633 and 4 at Dec.Qt. 1843 Peterboro v.15 p.715.
None of which I have been able to match up on "FamilyTree", found his brothers and sister but not him.

Can anyone help please?
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: Geoff-E on Wednesday 25 November 09 15:59 GMT (UK)
This is the Peterborough marriage http://tinyurl.com/y9o8wf3
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 25 November 09 16:10 GMT (UK)
if the 1843 marriage is the one here is susan savage in 1851
1851
HO107/1747/1009/16
susan savage age 36. b. thorney. occ. laundress. head(wid)
samuel age 4. b. ditto. son
martha halliday age 20. b. ditto. sister
living at;thorney,cambs
so need to find a death of john savage between 1847-1851 in the reg dist of peterborough
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 25 November 09 16:15 GMT (UK)
death index
name; john savage
y.o.r. 1848
qtr; jan/feb/mar
dist; peterborough
vol; 15
page; 293
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: Beckey on Thursday 26 November 09 08:45 GMT (UK)
Thank you everybody, something to look at hope I hit lucky this time.
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: Beckey on Wednesday 02 December 09 14:35 GMT (UK)
Hi woozle,

Sent for the certs. but unlucky again, marriage not my John, father a Samuel Savage (dead) and the death cert. could be anyone, no wife or father mentioned and the witness was a Mary Smith (X) died of scarlet fever age 26.
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: lynhenderson on Monday 14 December 09 17:09 GMT (UK)
im not a 100% sure have you tried looking for moulton under the sub district of east elloe?
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: Beckey on Tuesday 15 December 09 08:54 GMT (UK)
Hi lynhenderson,

Have the 1851 census and have been throuh it and by other means, but John is the only one that I can't pin down, found his 3 brothers & sister and followed them through but not John.
Thanks anyway.
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: DavidofLincs on Tuesday 15 December 09 23:39 GMT (UK)
Beckey,

There's a John Savage died in Holbeach RD in the last quarter of 1842 (Reference:  Vol.14, p.250).   Could that be him?

David.
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: Geoff-E on Wednesday 16 December 09 08:26 GMT (UK)
Beckey,

There's a John Savage died in Holbeach RD in the last quarter of 1842 (Reference:  Vol.14, p.250).   Could that be him?

David.

No, that one was aged 5. :(
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: Beckey on Wednesday 16 December 09 11:25 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

There was a Savage family in the Holbeach area, have been in touch some time ago and they do not connect.
Bar for getting a cert. for every death and marriage that might fit am at a stone wall.
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: DavidofLincs on Wednesday 16 December 09 11:48 GMT (UK)
Beckey,

Another possibility?  The NBI has a John Savage buried at All Saints Holbeach on 15/3/1848, aged 38 (which would mean he was born in 1810).   Where does your information that he was born in 1819 come from?  What age was he given in the 1841 census?

David.
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: DavidofLincs on Wednesday 16 December 09 12:02 GMT (UK)
Beckey,

And the BMD index has a death of a John Savage reported in the following quarter (April-June 1848) in Holbeach RD - reference Vol.14, p.312).  This is presumably the same person as the burial in mid-March, but just reported to the Registrar a few weeks later.   But no good if you are certain of the 1819 birth date.

David
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 16 December 09 14:32 GMT (UK)
beckey i can see the christening on the I.G.I ext rec
christened 27/1/1819
is this where you got the birth from
only he could have been christened quiet a while after the birth
his parents got married in 1818 in surfleet,lincs
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: Beckey on Wednesday 16 December 09 15:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Both,

The birth is based on the baptism and the marriage date of his parents, the other children's bapt. are 1/2 years apart and I have the bapt. record for Surfleet 1813 to 1853  & Moulton 1814 to 1848 (coppied off fiche).

His 1841 census shows him as 25 and with the rounding up that is near enough.
Neither was he witness to his brothers marriage in 1848 or his sisters in 1850, which I thought he would be if alive.
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: DavidofLincs on Wednesday 16 December 09 15:52 GMT (UK)
Beckey,

OK, but I wonder whether your 1841 census record is the same John Savage who was born in 1819.   Ages of adults were mostly rounded down (not up) in the 1841 census, so an age shown as 25 could be for a person aged anywhere between their 25th and 30th birthdays.  So that would mean that the John Savage in Moulton in 1841, if indeed he actually knew his age and was not just guessing, would have been born between 1811 and 1816, and not as late as 1819.  Could it be that your John, born 1819, actually died before 1841 - perhaps even as a youngster?

Just an idea.

David.

Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: Beckey on Thursday 17 December 09 09:24 GMT (UK)
Hi David,

That is a good posibility, but I also have the burials for Moulton 1830 onward & Surfleet 1813 onwards and he doesn't show up so it would have to be before that date or elsewhere or not registered.

The other thing is that there were other Savage families in that area, not conected and I have traced the John from one of them.

So it looks like it might be one of them that I will not find, pity really as I found the other 4 children and traced them through.

Barry
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: DavidofLincs on Thursday 17 December 09 10:03 GMT (UK)
Barry,

My guess, and it is no more than that, is that your John born in 1819 probably died young.    Infant mortality was high in those days, and the burial registers are seldom complete.  Finding the deaths of unmarried persons before 1837 is often a problem. Have you been able to find a gravestone for his parents?   If he died young, he might be mentioned on his parents' stone.

David.
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: Beckey on Thursday 17 December 09 10:16 GMT (UK)
Hi David,

Unfortunately there is no gravestone, his parents died Surfleet, mother in 1829 & father in 1836 both young and the cicumstances of his fathers death I can only assume with the information that I have been given, possibly through drink and penury, even though he was a Schoolmaster.

The 2nd son Edward also died Surfleet in 1873 (my g.grandmother's father)but no gravestone for him either, checked with the church, the other 2 sons died in other parts of England and the daughter in Australia.
So that looks like being the end of the story.

Anyway thanks for your suggestions.
Barry
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: MahlaTru on Saturday 25 December 10 04:05 GMT (UK)
Hi Becky,

I also have John Eugene in my tree.. and I believe he is related to the Savage Family of Holbeach. You have to go a long way back. He was I believe the son of William Savage b 1774 and Mary? and Grandson of John Savage 1746 - 1780, and Dinah Wilmore c1748.

I too am connected to John and Dinah through the Holbeach side of the family.

Merry Christmas. xx
Title: Re: Moulton - Savage
Post by: Beckey on Sunday 26 December 10 11:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Mahla Tru,

Thank you for your message, I was in touch with a lady a few years ago about a conection with the Holbeach side but couldn't make any connection.

John "Eugene" Savage born about 1794 possibly in the Nottingham Area (bapt. at Kneesall 9/9/1794), the Eugene is not mentioned only in letters I was given.  He died ca.1836, buried Surfleet 16/9/1836.  Married a Ann Smalley in 1818, she 1793 - 1829 Surfleet.

Father possibly a Eugene Savage!!  no death found at Moulton or Surfleet, Mother a possible Phoebe (Watson) died 1822 Surfleet, this based on son Edward Watson Savage.
Have details of other children bar one who I believe died before 1851.

Any information to the contrary grateful accepted.