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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: nicknobbyclark on Monday 23 November 09 23:57 GMT (UK)
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Greetings to all
I'm new here and wondered if anyone on the forum could help me?
On my Father's 1924 birth certificate it shows 4 St Clares Park Sandymount but so far I have had no luck in finding this location?
The street doesn't exist so maybe a house name?
Any help/advise appreciated.
Nick
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Nick
A preliminary search of Thoms 1923 and 1929 does not reveal a St.Clares Park in the Sandymount area.
Before I look further afield,please confirm that St. Clares Park is correct.
Regards Quaxer
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The old map of Dublin shows that Clare St and Park St (now called Lincoln Place) meet. Could it be somewhere around there I wonder?
Russell
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Could be but highly unlikely anyone would term that area Sandymount...I would imagine if the Sandymount part of the address is correct its a house name
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I think I've seen this query before - on a Dublin.ie board ?
I had a look through various maps and editions of Thom's and saw no mention of a Clare's park in the Sandymount area.
At the top of the cert there are several details that can help to narrow down the location - district, registrars sub-district etc could you post the details of these ?
Is the writing clear on the cert ? ...another option might be to post a scan of a small portion of the cert containing the address..
Shane
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Could be a house on Park Avenue if its Sandymount ? or St Clare's Avenue is near Harolds Cross stadium ?... St Albans or St.Johns in Sandymount today.....
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Could be a house on Park Avenue if its Sandymount ? or St Clare's Avenue is near Harolds Cross stadium ?... St Albans or St.Johns in Sandymount today.....
that sound's like an possible option - maybe the cert is missing a comma, and the address is something like
St Clare's, Park Avenue, Sandymount
Shane
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First of all many thanks to everyone who has answered my first post so promptly
I have attached a copy of my Father's birth certificate and it seems '4 St Clares Park, Sandymount' is clearly written.
Yes Shane I have also posted this on a Dublin.ie board but now quite desperate to find out where the location of St Clare's Park is. I am beginning to believe this may have been a house too. I do know my father came from a very poor family so maybe this could be factor?
On the top left of the birth certificate it looks like 'births registered in the district of donnybrook no 21' has been written. Would this district hold any clues?
I am living in Nottingham so a visit to Dublin isn't possible at the present time so any help greatly appreciated.
Nick
Moderator comment: only small portions of certificates may be posted. Cropped to show the district and address
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It certainly looks like '4 St. Clares Park' - three times...
I'll see if the sub district of Donnybrook no. 2 narrows down the area..
The cert appears to be a transcript from around the time of the birth.. it might be an idea to order a research cert from the GRO to compare against. These are photocopies/scans of the actual register - so would show the original entry details.
these seem to be his index details from familysearch :
Name: William Thomas Clarke
Registration district: Dublin South
Record type: Birth
quarter and year: Jul - Sep 1924
Volume: 2 / Page: 421
Shane
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Many thanks Shane
The cert is actually the original as far as I am aware. Although our family name is spelt 'Clark' (without the 'e').
I will take your advise and order another cert to see how the two compare.
Any ideas on maps that may be available that would show a dewling called St Clares Park in the parish of Donnybrook, Sandymount?
Best wishes
Nick
PS Apologies to the moderator for the large birth certificate image file attached to my previous posting.
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if it is the house name it probably would not be marked on a map.
I've few put a few slightly older Dublin maps online - see :
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,419905.0.html
and
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,419744.0.html
but I dont think most most of these cover quite enough of Sandymount.
I also have a few Dublin maps (on paper) from the 1930s onward that I've already checked, with no success..
Have you found any of the family on the 1911 census ?
There's a possible match for the informant Lizzie/Elizabeth Killeen, which could be a clue - see : http://www.rootschat.com/links/07jh/
Hope street was off Barrow Street - which is not far from Sandymount
Shane
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Shane
Yes the Killeen family on the 1911 Census may fit with what I have on my Grandmother.
Her name was May Violet Killeen and her mother (my Great Grandmother) could quite possibly have been the same Lizzie/Elizabeth Killeen on the cert. and the Census. The only difference I can see is that my Grandmother May Killeen was born 9th March 1892 which would make her approximately 19 at the time of the 1911Census? However, I often hear that some details can't always be trusted? I don't know the actual date of when the 1911 Census was recorded?
My Grandfather James Henry Clark (born in Bethnal Green, London) joined the 5th Royal Irish Lancers in Dublin around 1914, and as far as I know he must have come to Ireland during this period. I presume that Grandfather then met and married my Grandmother (the date of which I would like to find too) Shortly after my Father was born, they left for London but once again the actual date is unclear to our family?
Thanks for your continued help it really is all very interesting.
Nick
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...I don't know the actual date of when the 1911 Census was recorded?....
the 1911 census was taken on Sunday 2 April
S.
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Shane
Yes the Killeen family on the 1911 Census may fit with what I have on my Grandmother.
Her name was May Violet Killeen and her mother (my Great Grandmother) could quite possibly have been the sane Lizzie/Elizabeth Killeen on the cert. and the Census. The only difference I can see is that my Grandmother May Killeen was born 9th March 1892 which would make her approximately 19 at the time of the 1911Census? However, I often hear that some details can't always be trusted? I don't know the actual date of when the 1911 Census was recorded?
My Grandfather James Henry Clark (born in Bethnal Green, London) joined the 5th Royal Irish Lancers in Dublin around 1914, and as far as I know he must have come to Ireland during this period. I presume that Grandfather then met and married my Grandmother (the date of which I would like to find too) Shortly after my Father was born, they left for London but once again the actual date is unclear to our family?
Thanks for your continued help it really is all very interesting.
Nick
a little bit earlier than I was expecting - but a possible cross match in the familysearch civil index for the marriage of James & Mary :
Name: James Henry Clark
Registration district: Dublin South
Record type: Marriage
quarter and year: Oct - Dec 1914
Volume: 2 / Page: 587
Name: Mary Killeen
[same index details]
Sandymount is in the Dublin south registration district. There was a major barracks not far from Sandymount at Beggars Bush.
Shane
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Shane
I believe my Grandad would have been stationed with the 5th Lancers at the Marlborough Barracks Phoenix Park Dublin just before August 1914. He would most certainly then embarked with the regiment to France from Dublin on 15th August 1914. Returning with the regiment to Southampton, England 24th March 1919.
Very interested to see the marriage links of James & Mary. Can you tell me where I couId possibly go from here and what can I expect to see with regard to further details/documents etc?
Thanks again
Nick
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you can order a research cert from the GRO (for the birth or marriage) - download the form(s) at : http://www.groireland.ie/apply_for_a_cert.htm The form allows for different types of cert - just ensure that the index details (listed earlier) are entered somewhere on the form. Ignore the other details - RSI number, parents names etc
you can search the Irish civil index on familysearch at : http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=2;t=searchable;c=1408347
Details included on an Irish marriage cert are :
District, church & priest details
Date & place of marriage
groom's full name, occupation , condition, current residence and age
bride's full name, occupation , condition, current residence and age
groom's father's name and occupation
brides's father's name and occupation
witness names
* age usually entered as 'full'
* condition = bachelor, spinster etc
not sure though how that 1914 marriage would fit with the data you have on where James was located... although it's a match to James' full name..
Shane
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Shane
Many thanks for your continued help and information thus far.
Today I received the birth certificate of my Father's elder sister Annie Elizabeth Violet Clark born 18th May 1915. This cert has some interesting details. According to this, the residence is shown as 3 O'Brien's Place and the birth registered district is shown as Donnybrook No. 1.
My Grandfather James Henry Clark is also shown as expected at Marlborough Barracks and recorded as a private in 5th RI Lancers.
As my Grandmother Mary is shown as formally Killeen I presume they were married before 18th May 1915.
However nothing found yet on 3 O'Brien's Place in Dublin?
Just a thought this but could O'Brien's Place and St Clare's Park be names of birth clinics/nursery's in Donnybrook and Sandymount?
Best wishes
Nick
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Today O'Briens Place North can be found in.......D9
However your O'Briens Place was off Haddington Road in D4....and was occupied by 3 families in 1911
(Bray,Byrne and Moore) the address would be near Beggars Bush Barracks
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Yes thanks for that
Just checked out http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Pembroke_West/
and
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Pembroke_West/O_Brien_s_Place/
I will look at Haddington Road
Best wishes
Nick
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O'Briens Place was still there on the 1940 voters list and still occupied by the Bray family amongst others
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Going up Haddington Road away from town O'Briens Place was first right after Northumberland Street right by the Barracks today its called Lansdowne Park
If you search OSI historic maps Saint Clares Blackglen Road Sandyford pops up as an option but I can't see it on the map............could be St Clare's Villas Sandyford today or it must be in that area I'd have thought ?
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...Today I received the birth certificate of my Father's elder sister Annie Elizabeth Violet Clark born 18th May 1915. This cert has some interesting details. According to this, the residence is shown as 3 O'Brien's Place and the birth registered district is shown as Donnybrook No. 1.
My Grandfather James Henry Clark is also shown as expected at Marlborough Barracks and recorded as a private in 5th RI Lancers.
As my Grandmother Mary is shown as formally Killeen I presume they were married before 18th May 1915....
interesting - then the 1914 Marriage mentioned earlier looks very promising... I initially thought it was a bit too early.
Marlborough Barracks is now McKee Barracks- which is located on Dublin's north side near to the Phoenix Park and North Circular Rd. Some photos of the barracks on Archiseek : http://ireland.archiseek.com/buildings_ireland/dublin/cabra/mckee.html
There's mention of the 5th Royal Irish Lancers in articles on the The Curragh “Mutiny” in 1914 - e.g. : http://www.curragh.info/articles/mutiny.htm
Shane
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Thanks Ralph
Just interested to know how you found O'Briens Place and it's location today as Landsdowne Park?
I think it may be possible St Clare's Villas could have been St Clare's Park. Is this a street/road or building? initial search didn't find anything so maybe I'm looking at the wrong map!
Thanks also to Shane
The Curragh Mutiny article was very interesting.
Perhaps my Grandfather had a swift marrige in 1914 just before going to fight in the Great War?!
All the best
Nick
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The St Clare's / Saint Clares, Blackglen Road, Sandyford that Ralph mentioned would be quite a distance away from the Sandymount/Donnybrook area - and in the registration district of Rathdown, rather than Dublin South.
Shane
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O'Briens Place is on the 1940 voters list linked to Haddington Road so I searched Haddington Road on the OSI historical maps viewer and found O'Briens Place to be adjacent to the barracks where Lansdowne Place is today..Lansdowne Place appears to be a longer than O'Briens was - you can overlay the current map to check
(pick the historic 25i option for the best view and overlay the current map)
...I agree with Shane about the distance on the St Clares address but its the only possible link I can find....
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see also this 1904 street listing - which shows O'Brien place, off Haddington Rd..
http://roots.swilson.info/1904page6.html
and a link to the OSI maps that Ralph mentioned (thanks for mentioning those - I didn't know they were available )
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07jt/
Shane
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Hello
I finally have the chance to visit Dublin next week so making notes on all the useful information members very kindly supplied with regard to my question about St Clare's Park, Sandymount etc.
Thanks to Shane I also have a possible marriage certificate to research too.
Just wanted some tips really on where to look first so I can best prioritise my research as I may only get one day to run around the city looking at various archives!
Best wishes to all
Nick Clark
Looking forward to seeing Dublin!
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...Just wanted some tips really on where to look first so I can best prioritise my research as I may only get one day to run around the city looking at various archives!....
It depends a little bit on what kind of records you want to research ...
for Civil records - the GRO Research room (http://www.groireland.ie/research.htm) on Abbey Street
for Catholic parish records - the National Library (http://www.nli.ie/en/homepage.aspx), Kildare St
for Church of Ireland Records the Representative Church Body Library (http://ireland.anglican.org/index.php?do=about&id=42) in Rathfarnham
for lots of Dublin records - Dublin City Library and Archive, Pearse St. (http://www.dublincity.ie/RecreationandCulture/libraries/find_your_library/Pages/pearse_street_library.aspx)
and the National Archives (http://www.nationalarchives.ie) - too many records to mention...
If you are searching for Civil records you can search the index online to save time in advance of your visit at : Irish Civil BMD Index (http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=1408347;p=2;t=searchable) on familysearch
Shane
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Thanks Shane
The GRO and the Dublin City Library seem quite close to where I'm staying so I hope to get some results here. Perhaps looking at the Six Inch Ordnance Maps will something with regard to St Clare's Park?
Did a quick Google search on the site of the old Marlborough Barrracks (Mckee Barracks), Black Horse Avenue but not sure if they welcome vistors or not? I'll probably look into this while I'm there.
All the best
Nick
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Hi
I managed to get some information form my visit to Dublin. However, nothing on the location of St Clares Park as it appears on my father's birth certificate.
I am now trying to narrow down the registration districts of Donnybrook No 1 and No 2 from two birth certificates and wanted to know if these areas are some way listed either by street (ideally) or sectors on a map?
Any help would be very much appreciated.
Thank you
Nick Clark
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I have a list of the streets included in those districts.. but it was published in the 1860s
do you want me to post a run-down of the streets covered by those sub-districts at that time ?
Shane
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Shane
That would be great
Thanks fo your help
Nick
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from details published in the mid-1880s. The Superintendents Registrars District of Donnybrook had not been split at that time, but appears to include the area covers by both 1 and 2 in later years.
Annefield, Donnybrook (town), Priesthouse, Simmonscourt
Clonskeagh, Ballsbridge, Roebuck (part)
Sandymount, Irishtown, Beggars Bush, Ringsend
Fortyacres, Baggotrath, South Wall
Large list of roads/streets in Pembroke Urban District within the townlands listed above
I think your best bet is possibly a mishearing or misunderstanding by the registrar of Claremont Road... which is right next to Sandymount village, and is listed in this district. It would be very strange for there to be no mention of the St.Clare's Park address in something over the years (maps, Thom's directories, voters registers etc.. ) unless it only had this name for a very short period and was quickly renamed.
Shane
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Shane
I talked to someone at the Dublin City Library and he believed that the name St Clares Park could have changed quickly if it was the name of a dwelling/house etc.
I don't think this could be a mishearing or misunderstanding by the registrar of Claremont Road as I also have a copy of a postcard addressed to a possible family member named Bernard Killeen (not found on the census) at 4 St Clare's Park Sandymount.
The reason for wanting a list of streets within the areas of Donnybrook No1 and No 2 was to narrow things down a little as 4 St Clares Park is recorded as district Donnybrook No 2 on the birth certificate. Would I be right in thinking that this covered all of the Sandymount area or did it spill into Donnybrook No 1? I have read that these areas did later amalgamate into one district.
The other location I'm interested in is 3 O’Brien’s Place, which thanks to this forum I have now found and was district Donnybrook No 1
With your previous help I was able to locate and confirm a marriage certificate at the GRO for my grandparents James H Clark and Mary Killeen at the above address for 1914.
Thanks for your continued help
Nick
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Unfortunately as you can see the Donnybrook sub-districts are quite large... so dont really narrow things down all that much.
what year is the postcard you mentioned dated ?
Shane
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Unfortunately the postcard was sent to me via email as an image and I can't see any date only the address. I am still waiting for more information from the person who sent it.
Thanks
Nick
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I wonder when Claremont Park was built... and if it was called anything else in the 1920s?
it's just off Claremont Road and does not exist in the 1880s, nor does it seem to be included on the 1911 census - see streets in Pembroke East DED (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Pembroke_East/)
Shane
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Yes I did actually have a walk down there but all seem to be built circa 1950? Maybe a local history group may have something regarding the origins of Claremont Park?
Cheers
Nick
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I intrigued by this postcard and wonder if this Mr. Killeen might be a clue... maybe he might appear in a directory or similar ..
does the postcard address just have 4 St. Clare's Park, Sandymount, Dublin ?
If so I would think that including Sandymount in a postal address narrows it down to quite a small area..
Shane
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Shane
Yes the postcard just has Bernard Killeen, 4 St Clare's Park, Sandymount. There seems to be an attempt at writing the address elsewhere on the card but this has been scribbled out.
The postcard is a photograph of a what we believe to be some or all of the Killeen brothers (my great uncles).
Cheers
Nick
PS Found your Dublin City 1912 map to be of great help!
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Just an update and perhaps something of a development:
I searched the Dublin City Library & Archive Electoral Lists (1939-40) for the name Bernard Killeen and came up with 4 Seafort Gardens, Sandymount. More surprisingly other Killeen names form my 1911 census records also appeared
Daniel Killeen - Great Grandfather
William Killeen - Great Uncle
John Killeen - Great Uncle
Bernard Killeen - Possible Great Uncle and name from the post card addressed to 4 St Clares Park
Ellen Killeen - Possible Great Aunt
Interesting in that the house number is also number 4 leading me to believe this was the Killeen family home and at one time it may have been 4 St Clares Park, Sandymount. So it's possible that my Grandfather James H Clark and Grandmother Mary Clark (Killeen) have been living at this address when my father was born?
Any thoughts or ideas on where to go next are always welcome
Nick Clark
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that sounds very possible to me..
I looked at Thom's 1927 and Seafort gardens is there at that stage but the numbering is different, whcih suggests that there were several changes over the years :
1927
Seafort Avenue (from Sandymount Green to Strand Rd)
nos 1 to 11 (odd numbers only), 2 shops, the others are houses
15-25 labelled 'Seafort Terrace'
jct with Wilsons Place
27-41 and 2,4,6 & 48
Here is Seafort Villas
Nos 10-40
Seafort Avenue West (off Seafort Avenue)
section 1 nos 1-9 (odd) labeled Dromard Ave
sct 2 nos 2-22 (even) labeled Dromard Terrace
sct 3 nos 25-28 (all) labeled Seafort Gardens
no Killeens that I see anywhere on the two Seafort Ave's but here's a list of the surnames at the Gardens section :
Green, Kaye, Bell, Dolan, Murphy, Brazil
Duff, OConnor-Kavanagh, Carroll
Treacy, Connell, O'Keffe, Sexton
I'll work backwards and forwards from this and see what turns up..
Shane
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Note - I tried to attached the comparison map mentioned below, but get an 'upload folder full - error".. not sure why as the image is only 110k... I'll try again later. done
See below for details of maps for the area around Seafort and Sandymount village in the 1930s and early 40s. The major change seems to be the addition of the new section of the Beach Road along the coast to the north of Sandymount towards Irishtown, presumably on reclaimed land. This probably resulted in new building work from the end of Seafort Ave West, which seems to have included Seafort Gardens.
I've been trying to link up the details from the census,Thom's directory listings and the '39 registers to see if I can figure out what happened to Seaford Gardens .. but it's proving a little difficult at the moment as the Seafort Gardens section of Seafort Ave. West is not included in the 1938 Thoms listing. I do know that sometimes the locally known street names and the official name (as used by the register) could be out of step, and am hoping that section will show up as part of another street.
Just to confuse things a little more Seafort Ave West is now known as the name used by just part of the road - i.e. Dromard Terrace (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Dromard+Terrace,+Dublin+4,+County+Dublin+City,+Ireland&sll=53.333372,-6.213756&sspn=0.002851,0.005987&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=Fa7PLQMdUy2h_w&split=0&hq=&hnear=4+Dromard+Terrace,+Dublin+4,+County+Dublin+Corporation,+Ireland&ll=53.333647,-6.21441&spn=0.002851,0.005987&z=17) (google map link) You can also see a birds eye view of the road on multimap
Shane
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I've now added the image to the previous post
Shane
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Shane
Thanks for posting the maps
With so many changes around this area during 1930 to 1940, the results in Thoms 1927, and details the Killeen's on the Electoral Lists. it does make you think that another address (perhaps 4 St Clares Park) may have been there.
Do you have Thoms 1924? If so does 4 Seafort Gardens appear in this volume?
With regard to my other Clark/Killeen link, would you happen to have an early map of the Beggar's Bush barracks area showing 3 O'Briens Place around 1900 period?
Thanks again for your help
Nick
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I dont have any Thoms to the early 1920s... closest dates I have are 1914 and 1927, which I am comparing (along with the census and the '39 electoral register) at the moment to see if I can track the changes and new roads in the area by monitoring addresses and household names..
Quaxer checked Thoms 1923 and 1929 for you in an earlier post (see Reply #1 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,421259.msg2864478.html#msg2864478)) and saw no mention of St. Clare's. Maybe with these possible Seafort/Beach Rd connections it might be worth another look if he spots this post ..
O'Briens Place was off Haddington Rd should be induced on my 1912 map, which is online, but the street is not labeled.... I think I described the location before in a post for someone, I'll have a search for it.
Shane
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Nick N
Shane's reference caught my eye. I looked at Thoms 1923, 1928,1929, 1934 & 1942 and cannot find any reference to this Park.I have seen instances where a place had 2 changes of name within one year
The only immediate suggestion I can make is for you to examine the minutes of Pembroke U.D.C. which are retained by Dublin Corporation.
Regards Quaxer
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Quaxer
Thanks for your help with this. No 'Seafort Gardens' etc either?
The only immediate suggestion I can make is for you to examine the minutes of Pembroke U.D.C. which are retained by Dublin Corporation.
Thanks for this tip but it may take another weekend break in Dublin! Have to save some Euros!
Regards
Nick
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Nick N
Seafort Avenue , Terrace and Villas are mentioned in those Thoms I mentioned today but no Gardens.
Regards Quaxer
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Quaxer
With the help I've received on this forum it now feels I'm getting a little closer to finding out where my father was born plus I now have some more material for research.
Regards
Nick
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'morning Nick,
were you able to establish anything about the date of that Killeen postcard ?
anything that might narrow down the dates that St. Clare's Park existed at an address should help the search..
Shane
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Morning Shane
No still nothing on the date on the postcard.
But of course on my Father's birth certificate it does give the date 1924 so maybe the card was sent during this period?
I'll send another reminder but it's to someone that isn't really that interested in the Killeen side of the family. There's also been a recent death in their family so it's a little difficult at the moment.
Regards
Nick
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I've been comparing the details on a spreadsheet, and I've spotted something that I'm following up at the moment
On the Voters register the number of houses on Seafort Gardens is much greater than on 1927 edition of Thoms, and appears to have additional houses - no. 1-34 and 39-42. The houses listed in '27 are still there (nos 25 to 38) and show some overlap in the names, which confirms that they are the same addresses and not renumbered.
I cannot see any sign of Seafort Ave. West (which Seafort Grds was shown as part of in '27) on the voters register and wonder if maybe entire road was renamed to Seafort Gardens for a time... but so far I cannot see any sign of names carrying forward
Shane
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Shane
Interesting that the road/area could have changed names between various records etc. The numbering systems for houses on these streets can certainly seem odd at times.
I've also put in a couple of requests in two local Sandymount news papers for any recollections of a St Clares Park.
Kind regards
Nick
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Hi Shane
Just a quick update: Seafort Gardens apparently were British ex-servicemen's houses. Any records kept on this type of housing in the various Dublin archives?
Regards
Nick
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I dont know what specific records there might be of these types of houses... If they were for British army servicemen and owned by the Army I presume they would have been handed over either to the Irish Army along with the associated barracks, or to the state at Independence in 1922. If they were army property maybe there might be some sort of record of that ...although no idea as to where that might be... Dublin or London ?
If St. Clares' park was for example was the name of a terrace of smallish cottages, in the Seafort Gardens area, I suspect they might have been redeveloped or renamed when the beach road was constructed in the mid 1920s.
Shane
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I don't know about records, but I was told that the bungalows in "Demesne" in Killester were ex-servicemen's houses built after WWI.
Thoms 1922 shows Killester demesne vacant
1937 calls that area Killester Garden City
Also the houses on Lower Churchtown Road near Windy Arbour.
1937- no particular name given to these houses
If we could look at a Thoms ~1925 - 1930 maybe it would have a name for these houses - we could look for a similar name in Sandymount
eadaoin
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Eadaoin
Thoms 1928 does not contain a Lower Churchtown Road but merely Churchtown and in that there is nothing like a housing estate. In Killester there are New Cottages (12 in number) ,Killester Garden City. Demesne (Nos.1-73),Middle Third Street (Nos.1-49) and Abbeyfield (Nos.1-125) .All these Killester house are in the 9-13 pounds rating range and look very like ex British Servicemens' houses.
In responseto Shane , all British Government property in the 26 Counties became the property of the Free State immediately or eventually unless it was moveable and was shipped out.
The real estate affairs of Irish ex Servicemen (as tonew homes ) appears to have been handled by The Irish Ex-Servicemaens Utility Society Ltd. which I see was active as late as 1950 in leasing land from Dublin Corporation.
I have seen reference to papers from the Attorney General's Office in the National Archives
Maybe all the relevant papers (the Utility Society) are in the Archives if not with the Registrar of Companies.
Regards Quaxer
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Hi Nick
I'm just new on this and know nothing about Sandymount. However, I think we are related and wanted to make contact as it is exciting.
My Dad's parents (Killeen, Dublin and Clark from London and Southend); two brothers and two sisters married. I think my Dad and your's used to sing together in Southend in their early teens.
Would love to make contact.
Wild Kiwi
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Hi Wild Kiwi
I have sent you a personal message via this forum
Nick
Can't do this apparently - Please see my last post for details on how to reach me.
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New members usually need 3 posts to use PM (personal message) system.
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Hi Wild Kiwi
Can't use PM until you have made a total of 3 posts and I can't leave my email address here because of spam.
This is a shame as discussing family ties is a more private matter.
Please try this -
You can find my email address on-line by typing into Google 'Harry Tates Navy' then find the top web site in the search results, go to this site and click on ' 'Contact the Web Site' on the main page to get my email.
Good luck!
Nick.
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I've Just managed to find my Grandmothers family (Killeen) on the 1901 Census at 1 Potts Lane Blackrock Dublin. If anyone has anything relating to this address for example maps photographs or the location etc, I would be pleased to hear from them.
Nick
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Thoms 1922 has Potts lane in Williamstown in the Index of Streets, but no listing under Blackrock (maybe it had been demolished, but got left in the index).
Williamstown is part of Blackrock - it's on the Dublin city side, between Blackrock town and Booterstown.
Maybe Shane will be able to throw an earlier light on this!
eadaoin
edit: Peter Pearson's book "Between the Mountains and the Sea" says that Williamstown was a significant village with many houses and cottages. Many of these were cleared away in 1903/1904, when the leases expired.
(It's quite a small place now)
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It looks like Pott's Lane was gone by 1911 - I can't see it in any of the Blackrock DED's on the 1911 census..
like the 1922 edition that eadaoin mentioned, Pott's lane is included in the index of places in the 1914 edition of Thom's but there's no sign of it in the Blackrock street listing. (Williamstown is included in Blackrock Urban District in 1914 edition)
I'll check the 1904 and 1894 editions later on..
Shane
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Thank you Eadaoin & Shane
Shame- I look forward to what you may find later
Best wishes
Nick
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It's the same in both 1904 and 1894..
Pott's lane, Williamstown is included the county Dublin index but there's no mention of it in the street listing for Williamstown or Blackrock.
A number of the smaller side streets and cottages are not included in Thom's, especially outside the city, so I presume that's the case here.
In the areas in county Dublin the side-street junctions do not seem to be included as often as in City section. This detail can be useful as provide approx locations for smaller unlisted streets in the city area.
e.g. the listing for Grafton has numerous side street detailed, whereas no side streets are included in the section for Willliamstown. A single side street is listed in Booterstown.
Pott's lane is mentioned in county Dublin index in Thom's back to 1868 at least .
Shane
p.s. I just spotted it in the index in Thom's 1938... so maybe it still existed then ?
p.p.s. It's also listed in the 1949 & '58 editions as Pott's Lane, Blackrock