RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: Rae33 on Monday 23 November 09 05:33 GMT (UK)
-
Hello Everyone
Could somebody please help or advise me with the 1851 census. Searching for Helen (16) Janet (14) and Rebecca Robertson (8) daughters of William and Elizabeth Robertson (maiden name Grozet/Grossart).
In 1841 Wm and Elizabeth with Helen, Janet and son Alexander aged 2 (our great-grandfather) were living at 1 West Brae Paisley. The family separated in 1844 and Elizabeth and the four children were living at 27 Queen Street Paisley. In 1851 William and Alexander (12) were living at 33 Castle Street Paisley with Wm's parents and siblings.
I have found two girls - Helen (17) and Rebecca (8) on Scotlands People
Paisley High Church Renfrew GROS data 573/00 027/00 024 but there is no image available.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Rae
-
Sorry for the smileys - should read aged 8 for Rebecca.
Regards...Rae
-
Hi Rae
This looks like Rebecca and sister Helen in 1851:
Agness Groset 52, White Seam Sa(e?)wer b. Ireland
Helen Robertson 17, granddaughter b. Paisley
Rebecca Robertson 8, granddaughter b. Paisley
Address: 116 George Street, Paisley High Church
Monica :)
-
Hello Monica
Thank you so much for this information - they are definitely our two girls.
The grandmother fits in well as William and Elizabeth were married in January 1929 and they had a daughter Agnes born in March 1830. She is not with the family in 1841, 1844 or 1851 so I think she must have died before 1841. Elizabeth Grozet may have died before 1849 as, if I am on the right track and not off on another tangent as I often am, William remarried in 1849.
Your help is most appreciated.
Regards....Rae
-
Hi Monica
Could you please check to see if Agness Groset's marital status is shown on 1851?
I found an Agness Grosart aged 45 female servant at West bay Inverkip Renfrew in 1841 and she is working with a Barbara Robertson 19 female servant who would be her daughters' sister-in-law.
I am trying to check if Groset/Grosart is Agness's married or maiden name. I know the Scots women revert back to their maiden name when they are widowed but not sure if that is the case with the Irish women.
Thanks.....Rae
-
Hi Rae
The 1851 census entry comes from a transcript that does not include marital status unfortunately. I also checked FreeCen to see whether this entry was included for 1851 but it is not as they only have Paisley in 1841. The only way for you to check on Agnes' marital status would be to look at the original image on Scotlands People.
Monica
Added: :P Just remembered, we can't look at the original on SP can we!
-
Hi Monica
Thanks Monica, what a shame. Never mind, I am lucky to have the info you gave me.
Many thanks....Rae
-
Two daughters of William and Elizabeth Robertson (nee Grozet)
Helen Robertson born 26 August 1835 Paisley Renfrew and
Rebecca Robertson born c1842 Paisley Renfrew COMPLETED.
They had moved to Glasgow Lanarkshire by 1855 and both married and had families and died in Glasgow area.
Still searching for middle daughter Janet Robertson born c1837 Paisley. I think mother Elizabeth Grozet died before 1849 as father William remarried that year.
I have 1851 SP image for a Janet Robertson (16) High Church Paisley 573/00 011/00 016 and she is lodging with George Morn, clock (or cloak) maker, his wife and daughters and the daughters and Janet are power loom workers. There is no street address at all on this page - can anyone help with the previous page?
Also have a death record 1 July 1908 for Janet Robertson Cloakmaker (70 years) died at Hawkhead Asylum Paisley, unfortunately parents unknown, which fits.
I'm finding it strange that the grandmother Agness Groset was caring for two of the three girls, and my research shows Helen and Rebecca as being very close, living in same areas and naming their children for each other, so maybe Janet died before 1851.
Regards....Rae
-
Hi Rae
On Ancestry, the address is showing as 74 High Street, Paisley High Church. There are 37 entries showing up at that address with a number of different households there.
Monica :)
-
There is another possibility perhaps for Janet in 1851 but, as with the other Janet you have found, age is a few years out:
Jane McLerie 60, grocer b. Kilbarchan, Renfrew
Janet Robertson 12, grocer's assistant b. Paisley
Address: 39 Ferguslie, Paisley Abbey
Monica
-
Hello Monica
Thanks so much for your prompt reply. High Street is in the general area where the Robertsons were living, so it well may be that Janet was placed with the Morn family as a power loom weaver. The Robertson family were all working as weavers and dressmakers etc.
The name Jane McLerie doesn't ring any bells as being a family member though of course she may have been an old family friend who took Janet in.
Thanks again for your help.
Cheers....Rae
-
Hi Rae
can we kind of whoa a wee bit! Some of this have already looked at. Have you sorted out getting gedcom yet from me? I think that would help.
Paisley High St isn't where they lived most of time have to be honest and not around that time. They did gravitate that way but was later on (very late 1800s/early 1900s). They were mainly west end Paisley and High St tho not far away isnt west end.
I have exam coming up soon so time is limited but please try and get ged com sorted cos I think might answer some of your questions. I haven't given up on them lol just time I have not a lot of at mo.
Gimme buzz in pm when you have.
Best wishes
Ann :D
-
Hi Ann
I thought 74 High Street would be near the university, and not too far from Castle Street where Wm and Alexander were living in 1851 and 116 George Street where the two girls Helen and Rebecca were living with their grandmother Agness Groset - though I suppose George Street is a very long street.
I confirmed that Wm and Elizabeth Grozet's daughters Helen and Rebecca moved to Glasgow Lanark by 1855 and they were indeed the two girls I had found who gave Elizabeth's maiden name as Fraser on their marriage records. I eventually got Helen's third marriage record to James Harper and joy and relief she showed her mother's maiden name as Grosset.
Sorry I haven't got Gedcom as yet - I struggle with the computer and new programmes and really don't have anyone to help much. Will be busy for the next couple of weeks with visitors, but will let you know if I work the Gedcom out.
Cheers......Rae
-
Hi Rae
University is on High St and no 74 is close BUT Castle St isnt adjacent - it's about 10 minute walk away westwards. George St has changed loads over years. It runs basically along the back of uni right up to end of Castle St. Best way to look at it is to spilt Paisley into 4 - they were west. Weavers generally didn;t mix with folks from other quarters.
I have a map which I will get scanned and send to you cos think that would help in terms of plotting where things are. Lol easy for me cos I can see it in minds eye but then I grew up round there so here goes with my best description.......
Best way to explain is on High St standing outside museum (with buliding behind you). Uni is directly across road. If you go left a wee bit (about 100 yards) is top of Storie St (where Robertsons also lived).
Go down to bottom Storie St and that's George St. Uni Campus stretches to there. Turn right bottom Storie St and where George St used to have a thru road to Canal St (cut off now by a pavement) by some high rise flats first right is Castle St. (The high rises obviously wouldn't have been there then it was all tenements they pulled down).
The other way of getting there from High St using museum as marker is to turn right and walk along til you get to Wellmeadow then turn left at the Wellmeadow clock.
I must send you map makes it much easier!
Re Gedcom - do you use any family history software? They all accept gedcom files. I use Family Tree Maker but the file I create is acceptable for any FH package. Or alternatively PAF file? or worst case I print it all and send snail mail.
Must be off to zzz land now . Exam 26th so after that will have a couple of weeks breathing space before next one.
Oh and I found out today that Chelsea Pensioner records coming to Find My Past - exciting cos one of the Williams (the one who married the Ewart) was a CP!
Might even get a record there!
Speak soon
Tc
Ann xx
-
Hi guys, I now have a cat to throw into the pigeons. I have a Thomas Grossert who sometimes calls himself Fraser being married and having children in Abbey Paisley during the early 1840's right through till the mid 1850's when he moves to Neilston and has a couple of more kids. This seems to be a link here, with your Elizabeth Grossert if she at times uses the Fraser surname. Being in Australia I have only been able to do so much but I have Thomas Grossert/fraser married to Margaret Guthrie Brown and have four children then marrying Ann Donald and having another six or so. His daughters are Margaret, Christina, Agnes, Ann and Walker Fraser (yes a girl) sons are Robert, Alexander, John and William. I can not find any trace of him or of the boys. The girls either married or were put into Riccastbar Asylum (sadly), Walker lived to ripe old age, Agnes was ,my ggrandmother (and obviously a bit of wag). She has one son who I can't trace, Angus Alexander Fraser Weir born in the early 1890's. Have you come across any link to this family group at all.
Raylene
-
Hello Raylene
I have been going to contact you as I have read your posts on Genforum with great interest - I've been searching for Grozet/Grosarts for years - and only recently came across my Robertson girls giving Fraser instead of Groset as their mother's maiden name. Groset was sometimes spelt Groser so thought maybe it was an error when entering the names in the records. I had three marriage and two death records giving the name Fraser (Helen was married three times) and decided they weren't our girls after I found them living with their grandmother Agness Groset in 1851. However, desperation drove me to get Helen's last marriage record, and joy and relief, she named her mother as Elizabeth Grosset.
Alexander Groset and Agnes Stacks would certainly fit the naming pattern as parents of our Elizabeth Groset - she may have been their eldest child - and I wonder if the Agness Groset on the 1841 and 1851 is indeed Agnes Stacks. I haven't found anything yet to prove this. I haven't found any further record of Agness Groset after 1851, and Helen Robertson moved to Hutchesontown Glasgow between 1851 and 1855 when she married Mathew McDougall. They had three children who did not survive infancy, and I presume Mathew died as Helen married a widower Peter Steel in 1862 and they had four children. Peter died in 1870 before their son was born and Helen married another widower James Harper in 1878.
Rebecca married Alexander Crawford in 1862 Hutchesontown Glasgow and they had six children that I know of, one daughter was named Annie Fraser Crawford so they certainly believed they had a Fraser connection. I wonder if Agness Stacks called herself Annie Fraser? So many possibilities.
Both girls lived in Reidvale Street, Helen at 163 in 1878 and Rebecca at 207 in 1897 when Annie was married.
Sorry I can't throw any light on your mysteries, but I am working on the Grosets and will let you know any results I get.
Regards....Rae
-
You have made my day. I have my Agnes Weir Daughter of Thomas Grosset/Fraser living in Reidvale street on the 1901 census. You have made my day. Oh my gosh, maybe we have cracked the grosset mystery. Could you please email me privately on
(*)
Can't believe I have finally found a connection. I really thought they must have dropped off the planet.
Raylene
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
Hello Raylene
Did you receive my email sent 15th January.
Regards....Rae
-
Message received, Rae will get back to you soon, working etc
Raylene
-
Hello Ann
How are you? Did you receive my PM which I sent on 13 January - also my email re Elizabeth Grosset's birth certificate, sent 27 January.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Regards.....Rae
-
Hi Rae
Not disappeared off planet. I have another (I hope last!) exam on 8th March so been working for that. As soon as that's over I can get back to my genie stuff properly - am champing at bit but that text book is watching me lol!
So will be in touch very soon!
Ann :D