RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: rpoole on Sunday 22 November 09 11:06 GMT (UK)
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I am hoping someone can help identify the crime of convict John WEBB via "Guildford".
He was convicted at the Oxfordshire assizes for a term of 14 years on July 21st 1819. The "Guildford" left Portsmouth on 12th May 1820 and arrived VDL 28th Oct 1820.
A native of Little Tew, Oxfordshire, he was baptised 27th May 1798 at Aston Rowant, Oxfordshire, and died 27th Nov 1873 Sorell, Tasmania.
The first entry on his conduct record is in 1822. ??? I have most of his family details, but his original crime eludes me. Two of his sons married two of my gg aunts, and a direct descendant of one of them is seeking the crime for his family tree.
Hoping there is a lister who has this info.
Cheers, Aussie Bob
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From Australian Convict Registers, Other Fleets and Ships, 1791-1868 Piece HO 11/3
Colony: Van Diemans Land
there are three chaps bracketed together tried at Oxford Assizes 21 July 1819 - Thomas CONNON (could be Connor), James KNIBBS and Martin HARTWELL, sentence: Life
then there are two names bracketed together, tried at Oxford Assizes 21 July 1819 - John WEBB, John COULING?, sentence: seven years.
England and Wales Criminal Registers show
John WEBB convicted in the Summer assizes of Sheep-stealing; sentence: Death
John COULING convicted in the Summer assizes of burglary; sentence: Death
James KNIBBS convicted in the Summer assizes of burglary; sentence: Death
Martin HARTWELL convicted in the Summer assizes of burglary; sentence: Death
It was common for sentences to be commuted to a lesser sentence and it would appear that these chaps were all kept together for transportation.
Cheers, Judith
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Thank you ever so much Judith,
There will be one very happy descendant of a sheep stealer when I pass your findings on to him.
Great work, regards, Aussie Bob ;D
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http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=11
On the above link to the Tasmania Archives you will be able to see there is further information about John Webb but unfortunately it has to be viewed in the Archives reading room. The on record that is able to be viewed on line shows him also linked to John Couling.
Perhaps some kind fellow rootschatter who lives in Tasmania may be able to help you further with more details
kind thoughts Jenn
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Hi Aussie Bob and Jen,
There are records online for this convict eg the conduct book and indent. The conduct books give some insight into the every day life of the convict while still in gaol. However they are a bit hard to find sometimes as they are not strictly alphabetical and take some searching to find the one you want. Click on the link Jen has given and then enter your convict's information and it will come up with the Conduct Book. Click on this and then you will have to find what page his is on. Also the handwriting is not always easy to read but can be blown up on the screen. They all make fascinating (and sometimes horrifying) reading.
I note that the whole list of Tasmanian convicts is not online and can only be viewed at the Tasmanian Archives Office. I am also told that the Tasmanian Archives Office is to be closed down. I have no idea what is to happen to the records. Such a shame for all Tasmanian researchers as the Tasmanian convict records are much better than records for New South Wales convicts as NSW destroyed so many of theirs eg there are no conduct books for NSW convicts.
Andcarred
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Hi Jen and Andcarred,
I usually make Hobart once a year and will check details then. In the meantime Judith has supplied the core matter I was after, the crime. I did state in my initial post that the conduct record did not start until John Webb was in VDL, as I have viewed it. Unfortunately the Indent and description lists cant be viewed online.
Many thanks for your kind suggestions and interest. This is a great facility, thanks to people like Judith and yourselves.
Best wishes, Aussie Bob
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By the way Andcarred,
I believe it is the National Archives Office in Tasmania that is to be closed, not the Tasmanian Archives that is at the Library in Hobart. Fingers crossed.
Regards,
Aussie Bob
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Hi Aussie Bob,
Just a little extra from:
Jackson's Oxford Journal (Oxford, England), Saturday, November 6, 1819; Issue 3472.
OXFORD, Saturday, Nov. 6
The following convicts have been removed from our county gaol to the Leviathan convict ship in Portsmouth harbour, pursuant to their respective sentences as follows:
For Life - Jas. Warwick, Thos. Lennon, Richard Ayris, Daniel Walton, Thomas Sawyer, Jas. Spokes, Martin Hartwell , James Knibbs, John Smith and Thomas Smith
For Fourteen Years - John Couling, Charles Goodlake, John Webb and Thomas Allen.
The Leviathan was a convict hulk, and you can read a bit about it here http://bugden.bigpondhosting.com/prison_hulk.htm
Cheers
Debra
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Hi Debra,
Thanks for that. That is another piece in the Jigsaw of his troubled life.
I think the 7 years sentence mentioned in the "Australian Convict Registers, Other Fleets and Ships 1791 - 1868, piece HO 11/3" may be a mistake, as both the "British Convict Transportation !787 - 1867 Database" and the "Jackson's Oxford Journal" both state it was a 14 year sentence. Either way, he went on to produce very large families, of which reputable descendants are spread all round Australia today.
Cheers,
Aussie Bob
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Hi all,
I am very interested in this discussion. I am studying the voyage of the Guildford4 1820 and all the convicts on it.
I have found some information but this has given me more.
Bob could you email me if you wish as I'd love to give you any information you require about the journey and find out more specifically about John Webb in particular.
Email address removed to prevent spam and other possible abuse. Please contact the poster via PM to exchange personal information.
Regards
Kieran
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By the way Bob,
The Convict Indents of Guildford 4 also state John's term as 14 years.
Kieran
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Hi Kieran,
I have not posted on this site for some time and have forgotten how to reply offline. However I know it is possible and if a moderator sees this and kindly gives advice how, or you already know, or take the time to read the instructions on Rootschat, you can send me any newsworthy info of the Guildford's voyage if you wish and I will ensure John Webb's direct decendant gets it. Sorry but I have had a recent experience with a scam on a similar chat site and have been advised not to respond to emails my computer's software flags an alert on. This in no way suggests yours if suss, but like many other things in life, we all get affected by the unscrupulous few >:(.
Many thanks, Aussie Bob.
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Bob
I am not a scammer but understand your reluctance to access my email, so no offence taken.
My g g grandfather was a convict on the Guildford 1820 (Edward Woodhart), but also on the ship were the five respited Cato Street Conspirators (Richard Bradburn, James Wilson, Charles Cooper, John Shaw Strange and John Harrison) (convicted of High Treason for trying to overthrow the Governent in London on 23 feb 1820).
I have become more and more interested with the journey and the convicts on the ship, so much so that I am now writing a manuscript on it.
I'm just trying to learn about convicts on the ship so I can give a 'human' perspective.
The info on your chat has given me more insight into the Oxfordshire convicts so thanks for that.
Regards
Kieran
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Hi Bob,
Now that Kieran has made three posts you can use the personal message facility - just click on the green scroll symbol on the left hand side of his post, under his user name.
Debra
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Many thanks Debra,
Aussie Bob
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Gday Kieran,
My gg-grandfather is John Shaw Strange. Would be very interested in any information you have.
Cheers,
Darren.
Bob
I am not a scammer but understand your reluctance to access my email, so no offence taken.
My g g grandfather was a convict on the Guildford 1820 (Edward Woodhart), but also on the ship were the five respited Cato Street Conspirators (Richard Bradburn, James Wilson, Charles Cooper, John Shaw Strange and John Harrison) (convicted of High Treason for trying to overthrow the Governent in London on 23 feb 1820).
I have become more and more interested with the journey and the convicts on the ship, so much so that I am now writing a manuscript on it.
I'm just trying to learn about convicts on the ship so I can give a 'human' perspective.
The info on your chat has given me more insight into the Oxfordshire convicts so thanks for that.
Regards
Kieran
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Dear Bob
I am very interested in your posts about John Webb born Aston Rowant. My mother's family are related to the Webbs of Aston Rowant and can trace the tree back to a marriage there in 1621 between Humphrey Webb and Mary Burnham. I would love to hear more about what happened to John after he went to Australia. If we can add any details to your relative's tree pre John's birth, we would be happy to help.
Kate
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Hello Kate,
All I know about John Webb pre-trial is that his parents were William Webb (no detail) and Elizabeth Herridge born 1776 in Kingston, Oxfordshire, Eng. I would be happy to hear more about his past. I do however have a large amount of info on his life in Tasmania. I published a book in 2009 on 4 branches of my family, but have found a lot more about John Webb since then.
If you send me a personal message giving me your email address, or when you have made a couple of more posts on Rootschat I can send you a personal message. John Webb's son John Webb married my GGG Grandmother's daughter, and another son, James Webb had 11 children to her sister. James disappeared in unusual circumstances and was declared dead without any knowledge of the whereabouts of his body. I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards, Aussie Bob :) :)