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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Hertfordshire => England => Hertfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: mosmi on Saturday 21 November 09 23:28 GMT (UK)
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Hello!
I'm hoping one of you lovely people might be able to help me find an elusive marriage for my great-grandparents.
George Herbert Smith was born on 19/01/1863 in the village of Brimscombe, Gloucestershire. Though he sometimes gives the name Stroud, which is the nearest town.
Kate Smith was born in about 1867 and hails from Barnet, Hertfordshire. Unfortunately, I don't know her maiden name.
I can trace them from the 1911 census back as far as 1891, but at this point I come to a dead end, as I don't know anything about the previous generation. However, it might be inferred from the 1891 census that they got married in Barnet, as their first child was born about 1886, which is when they say they tied the knot on the 1911 census.
In 1911, the happy couple are living at 4 Torrington Park, North Finchley. George is a registrar of births and deaths for Finchley, and Kate is the deputy registrar. (He's also a reporter for the Press Association from 1891 until his death in 1927.) He states that they've been married for 26 years (i.e. ~1885), and have had eight children, with seven still alive. I'm not sure when Kate died.
In 1901, they're based at 99 Salisbury Road, Barnet. He's listed as a journalist/newspaper reporter. They are 38 and 34 years old, respectively.
In 1891, they are living at 22 Union Street, Barnet. He is 28 years old and she is 24. Their eldest child, Tom Herbert Smith, is five, and was born in Barnet. He's again listed as a newspaper reporter - I believe that he was working for the Barnet Press during this year. Prior to this, I'm told that he was a schoolmaster.
I'd be very grateful for any help you might be able to give! Finding their marriage would open a lot of possibilities.
Alan
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how did you come to know the exact birthdate of george
i take it you do not have the birth cert
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there is only 3 george smiths born in the 1st qtr of 1863 regd in stroud which is the reg dist for brimscombe 2 of those are called albert george smith (they might be the same entered twice)
so it is not them that only leaves one
george smith
y.o.r. 1863
qtr; jan/feb/mar
dist; stroud
vol; 6a
page; 315
you could get the cert it will cost £7
that would give both parents names and fathers occ
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Hiya,
There's an electronic database of journalists called "Scoop!", which British Library Newspapers were able to give me his entry for. It includes the following information:
SMITH, George (1863-1927)
Career
Barnet Press, rep. -1891
Press Association, rep. 1891-94: court rep. 1894-1927 [in the course of his career he developed a close relationship with the Royal family and never disclosed in print anything which he thought might meet with their disapproval]
Life
Born 19 Jan. 1863, Gloucestershire. Was a schoolmaster before becoming a journalist. Resided for many years in Finchley. Was a freemason for over 25 years and was a past Provincial Grand Steward for Hertfordshire. Joined the Central London branch of the National Union of Journalists, 24 Jan. 1920. Lapsed, July 1922. Made a member of the Royal Victorian Order by the King. Died 18 Aug. 1927 in the Royal Northern Hospital. Funeral at Christ Church, North Finchley. Address at 1899: 4 Torrington Park, Finchley
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the other alternative and probably a surer bet
would be to get one of the childrens birth certs that would then give you the mothers maiden name
if you tell us the names of the children that you know and their birthplaces of we might be able to find their birth index
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have you seen the 1881 census
possibly him
RG11/2550/110/10
mary smith age 40. b. thornbury,gloucs. head(wid)
george smith age 18. b. wallsquarry,gloucs. occ. pupil teacher(national school). son(unm)
frank smith age 14. b ditto. occ. farm labourer. son
emily age 10. b. avening. daughter
herbert smith age 6. b. ditto. son
living at;high street,avening,gloucs
reg.dist. stroud
herbert crops up in one of the sons
if you want i will have a look on the 1871
the father might be there his name could be herbert ?
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george is on 1871 this time states birthplace as minchinhampton which is i believe is the right area for brimscombe
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Aha! Yes, that does make sense. I'd not thought of that, my apologies - I'm a bit new to all of this! :)
I'll have a go ordering George Smith's birth certificate, as well as for his children.
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the father might be there his name could be herbert ?
That could well be him! Frank is another name that crops up in the next generation. Out of curiosity, is his father still alive on the 1871 census?
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here is 1871
bit of a discrepancy with the wife though with regard to age and birthplace(do'nt know if thornbury is in or near to bristol) and fathers age
every thing else seems to match though with the 1881
1871
RG10/2641/16/7.
thomas smith age 72?. b. carmarthen. occ. superannuated revenue officer. head
mary smith age 41. b. bristol. wife
elizabeth.m. age 12. b. minchinhampton. daughter
thomas age 10. b. ditto. son
george age 8. b. ditto. son
frank age 5. b. ditto. son
louisa age 2. b. avening. daughter
emily age 7mnths. b. ditto. daughter
living at;church street,avening,gloucs
reg.dist. stroud
really need to find this family in 1861 to see what ages and birthplaces are given
elizabeth .m. c 1869 mary/thomas should be on it
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1861
RG9/1777/94/22
thomas smith age 62. b. abergavenney,carmarthenshire. occ. retired revenue officer. head
mary age 32. b. thornbury. wife
elizabeth.m. age 2. b. minchinhampton. daughter
thomas age 11mnths. b. ditto. son
henry watkins age 61. b. deptford. boarder
living at walls quarry,brimscombe,minchinhampton,gloucs
reg.dist. stroud
looking better all the time they are living in the right place brimscombe and walls quarry which is where george on the 1881 states his birthplace to be
thomas smith must have been a fit man to have kids that late in life
the only query left is marys age in 1881
1861-32
1871-42
1881-41?
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forgot to add brimscombe is in fact an ecclesiastical parish within the civil parish of minchinhampton
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on the 1881 census the youngest child herbert is aged 6 so born c1875
the only death of a thomas smith that might fit is this one
y.o.r. 1876
qtr; jan/feb/mar
dist; stroud
vol; 6a
page; 259
age at death; 75
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This is fantastic - thanks very much for having done it all! :)
Thomas Smith would seem to be quite the character, having had children as late in life as he did.
I've been looking over some of the later censuses which I have for George Smith, and it transpires that he's living next door to his brother, Thomas (born 1860), who you found in 1861 and 1871.
Thanks again,
Alan
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Who ARE all you lovely people LOL? Just stumbled on this thread from four years ago and haven't had a chance yet to sift through it all. George Herbert Smith was my great grandfather through his son Tom Herbert who emigrated to Canada, where I live. This was before WWI. Tom Herbert had six children in Canada who survived infancy, five who had children, grandchildren and in some cases great grandchildren. TH also worked for a time as a journalist, but eventually went into business where he got into a spot of bother with stock fiddling in the 20s or 30s and, according to family legend, did jail time. (Still tracking that down.) Some of you, or more likely your parents, might remember my mother, Betty Smith, who kept in touch with cousins until near the end of her life and visited with them in England starting during WWII when she was over there with the air force. I have, I think, most of the readily available genealogical info on George and Kate alluded to here. I also have a scrapbook of accounts of George Herbert's death in a pedestrian-automobile accident in 1927, and the resulting funeral and tributes - including from the King and Queen, with whom GH was fairly tight because of his work as a court reporter (and also, according to family legend, because he was one of the then Prince of Wales' by-blows.) I plan eventually to make this material available online. Love to hear from other Smith relatives in England or elsewhere.
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Hi Gerry! I just got a notification about this thread, as I originally started it. It's amazing that you found it! The wonders of modern technology, eh?
It'd be great to chat with you. I'd be fascinated to find out more about the Canadian side of the family!
Alan
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Hi Alan - not sure how you arrange an off-line chat with this service. Email addresses are hidden...
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Ah, fair point. I'll try sending you a private message on here.
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Gerry
You need to have made 3 post for the pm system to open up.
As you have 2 (at time of writing this) just reply to this with a smiley and .......hey presto..... :)
WELCOME TO ROOTSCHAT!
Ray
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:)