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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: transparu on Friday 20 November 09 21:49 GMT (UK)
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John Argles Robinson (22, undertaker) m Sarah Mary Anne Probert (20, dressmaker) on 14 Sept 1848, Westminster Chapel ,Westminster, Middlesex
John Argles Robinson lived at 48 Tufton St, Westminster, London,
Sarah Mary Anne Probert lived at 4 Romney St
Witnesses: Helen Matilda Draper, Samuel Probert
Fathers: John Robinson, Salesman
Samuel Probert, Smith
(Witnesses were Helen Matilda Draper and Samuel Probert)
Very soon after the marriage they travelled to Australia where I have subsequent details.
I cannot seem to find anything about either family prior to this. Can anyone help please?
Thanks
Dave
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Hi Dave
Do you have their father's names and occupations from the marriage cert?
If we had that info we could try the 1841 census and possible baptisms.
Dawn
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Thanks. . Sorry, I forgot to put that in.
John Robinson, Salesman
Samuel Probert, Smith
(Witnesses were Helen Matilda Draper and Samuel Probert)
I have TRIED to find an Argles connection but there are few entries anywhere. (Uncommon name? Only ONE name anywhere in Australia now, for example) I'd guess that this was John Argles Robinson's mother's name. His father was John.
Thanks for the interest.
Dave
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Hi Dave
With the father's details you have provided, there is this possible entry for Sarah's family in 1841, at Romney Street, Westmister:
Saml Probert 40, smith, b. outside the county
Elizth Probert 40
Elizh Probert 19
Marriett Probert 10
HO107; Piece 737; Book: 4;Folio: 12; Page: 19
Possible for Sarah that year at 2 Little Chapel Street Westminster:
Elizth Lucas 36, lauderess, b. outside the county
John Lucas 10, b. outside the county
Eliza Lucas 8, b. outside the county
Charlotte Diggle 57
Sarah Probert 13
HO107; Piece 738; Book: 11; Folio: 14; Page: 20
Monica :)
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If we have the right family for Sarah, this looks to be their entry in 1851, at 4 Romney Street Westminter:
Samuel Probert 52, smith b. Bath, Somerset
Elizabeth Probert 50 b. St John Westr, Middlesex
Elizabeth Probert 24 b. St John Westr, Middlesex
Samuel Probert 9 b. St John Westr, Middlesex
Emma Probert 7 b. St John Westr, Middlesex
Mary Ann Day 12, visitor b. marylebone
HO107; Piece: 1479; Folio: 247; Page: 28
Monica
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Hi - the IGI and Ancestry's England and Wales Christening Records database both have a baptism for a John Arglis Robinson in Epping, Essex, on June 6 1826, to John and Agnes Robinson. Ancestry goes further, to suggest that the maternal grandfather's name is Edward Argles and grandmother Catharine
Regards
Rob
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Thanks Snowball,
This looks excellent!
I greatly appreciate your time.
Dave
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Monica,
Thanks for this. I am very pleased you have found the 1851 record. The street and two of the names fit well. Thanks for the other details as well
It is great to wake up in the morning (in Australia) and find such progress!
Dave
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Hi
A possible sister
Agnes Littlewood Robinson
Birth: 14 JUL 1829 Chadwell Heath, Essex
Father: John Robinson
Mother: Agnes
A servant on the 1851 census
Marriages Sep 1854
Moule Frederick Kensington 1a 245
ROBINSON Agnes Littlewood Kensington 1a 245
1841 census HO107 737/13 folio 26
? Street St John the Evangelist Westminster
Agnes Robinson 34
Agnes Robinson 11
Difficult image to read because it is faded
A possible death registration for Agnes senior
Deaths Mar 1848 Robinson Agnes Westminster 1 405
For maternal relations to be mention on a baptism means in nearly all cases the baptism that has been indexed is non-conformist.
The non-conformist baptism that are held at The National Archives and indexed by both the IGI and Ancestry are on the internet with the images in full. You must purchase credits to view them in full for all the information. Both John Argles and Agnes (she has two) baptisms are there.
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/
John Robinson of the parish of Thundersley Essex
Agnes Argles
1827
St. Giles In The Fields
by licence
Prior to the beginning of civil registration 1st July 1837 and Hardwicke's marriage Act of 1754 except for Quakers all non-conformists had to marry in Anglican churches if they wanted their marriages to be legal. St Giles Registers remain with the church. The LMA hold copies on microfilm. Because the registers themselves have not been deposited they will not be part of the digitalistation project between the LMA and Ancestry.
This 1851 census entry maybe a red herring
HO107 1512 folio 319
8 White Horse Yard St Clement Danes Westminster
John Robinson 52 Head Married Salesman Covent Garden Market Ansley, Suffolk
Sophia Robinson 48 Wife Married Somersham, Suffolk
Agnes Littlewood Robinson's marriage certificate may give further information about her father.
Regards
Valda
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Wow Valda,
I am SO grateful to you (and others). I only came across Rootschat 2 days ago and people like you have made more progress for me than I have made in months!
I have a bot of looking and thinking to do.
I greatly appreciate your talents and time.
Dave
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Dear Valda,
I feel SO bad – yet rather elated at the same time.
I was just looking for some photos I want to scan and came across an old envelope that was in some of my father’s papers and which I had never seen before. I couldn’t believe what I found! In it were several certificates:
Of relevance to our recent interactions:
A handwritten ??blessing/sermon?? and brief letter
From John Robinson, Fourth Row, Covent Garden dated March 19 1849 to “My Dearest Son and Daughter”
It is going to take me a long time to decipher this.
The letter was to John Argles Robinson and his wife Sarah Mary Ann 10 days after they left for Adelaide.
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Get this!!
Birth Certificate of John Argles Robinson (6/6/1826)
Father: John Robinson of Epping, Essex, a Farmer
Mother: Agnes, daughter of Edward Argles of Maidstone, Kent, Upholsterer
Born at the house of Thomas Argles, ??Bank??, Epping, Essex
Parents
John Robinson
Agnes Robinson
Catherine Argles . .(a further name in very feint pencil I can’t decipher yet)
Witnesses were
Catherine Argyles, London, Grandmother
Thomas Loft, Epping, Surgeon
Registered 6/9/1831.
I am amazed that I have never seen these papers before - somthing about having a Dad with dimentia, I guess.
I am a little embarrassed, but so pleased that our two pictures DO match up.
I have yet to digest it all!
Thanks again
Dave
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Hi
Whatever the document is it cannot be a birth certificate since civil registration only began 1st July 1837. It may very well be an extract from Dr William's birth registry
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/familyhistory/guide/people/nonconformist.htm
and therefore would be very similar/same as the non-conformist records found on the website link already given
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/
Regards
Valda
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Mmm
Thanks for that.
It is a document that said
" This is to certify and declare that John Argles Robinson. . son of . . . .
and . . . wife etc etc
Parents named and Two witnesses.
Dated 6/9/31, though the birth was 6/6/1826.
The document doesn't actually say what it is but there is a side note which I guess says it is from the registry . . . at Dr William's Library.
I was pretty exciting to find.
Thanks for the help Valda.
Dave
Oh . . The address given on the letter I found from John Robinson to his son and daughter-in-law in Australia was Row 4, Covent Garden.
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I have a Harriet Lovenear Argles b. 26.11.1852 Adelaide d.20.09.1893 Dunolly, Victoria, married 10.08.1869 Adelaide to Samuel Edwin Simons b.17.07.1842 Adelaide d. 17.06.1825 Maryborough, Victoria they had 15 children all born in Victoria, not my direct ancestors but a branch of the family. I also have Robinson ancestors, Ireland to South Australia and then St. Arnaud Victoria.
If you think there may be a connection let me know.
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Hi Dave. I found a printed copy of this chat in my late sister's stuff when sorting out. We were both into our family tree. I have quite good records and have the Robinson line back to Stephen 1766-1848. I am aware of ancestors emigrating to Australia - I guess you are descended!
I am using Ancestry.com and Findmypast. I was surprised you have documents relating to John Robinson 1849, that is amazing.
I have a lot of stuff to go through of my sister's including photo albums that belonged to Grandad (Frederic George Robinson 1893-1975). I also have his recorded memoires mosting of his army days on the 1st WW.
I would be interested to know of your family line presumably from John and Sarah.
Regards
Rita
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Hi Rita,
Thanks so much for the contact. I'll be pleased to answer any questions you might ask and I'll be happy to give you all I have re the Robinsons and descendants in Australia.
I'd love to go back beyond Stephen and Mary, but so far I have nothing.
I'm busy at the present but can send more at a later time.
John and Sarah arrived in Adelaide and soon Edward Probert Robinson was born. John sailed to Melbourne in 1951 attracted by the then Victorian gold rush, but drowned in the Yarra river the day after arriving in Melbourne. I have a copy of the Post Mortem report. Sarah eventually moved to Melbourne and married. (I have met a descendant of her family in Melbourne too.)
Edward P married Janet Millar Hamilton. Janet Millar Robinson, one of their daughters married Clement Arthur Yates. These were my paternal grandparents. I knew Janet and three of her sisters, Isabel, Alice and Catherine. There's quite a bit to be said about these folk.
I've been busy since Covid hit in writing history of the boot manufacturing activities of the Yates side of my family in Melbourne so I have neglected the tree quite a lot.
As I say, I'd be pleased to share with you anything I might have/know about the Robinsons.
Warm regards from warm Brisbane.
David
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Thanks for your reply, David.
I have updated my tree with your info on Ancestry.com (Bentley family tree). My mother was Dorothy Robinson (1923-2002).
My late sister Maureen did a lot of research but mostly about UK residents.
I was not aware of these Robinsons going to Australia but perhaps my mother knew. She had relatives in Australia from her mother's brother emigrating there.
My tree is getting larger!
I only propose to subscribe to Ancestry for the winter here so about another 5 months to go!!!
Max temp here today 12C but usually about 5C.
Regards
Rita