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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Gem71 on Friday 20 November 09 13:36 GMT (UK)
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Look-up 1851, 1871, 1881,
This is the family in the 1861 census but i cant find them on any other census, can anyone help please.
Willian Bamber Age50- Ag Labourer born Thornton Lancs.
Wife , Ann : 33 : Wigan
Dau, Catherine 15 Cotton Weaver b :
: Jane : 17 Scolar b :
Son James : 3 : b :
Civil Parish Wigan
Eccles: Parish St Thomas
RD Wigan
ED21.
Many thanks in advance.
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can only find Catherine in 1851 at the moment with grandparents
Patricks Row Wigan HO107 2199 759 19
Patrick Sherry head mar 68 handloom cotton weaver b Ireland
Ann sherry wife mar 68 b.Ireland
Catherine Bamber grandaughter 5 b.Wigan
also in the Household
James Whelan 48 b.Ireland
Bridget Whelan 48 do
James Whelan 9 do
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Hi there,
Had a thorough look through the census but not achieved much. I found the one you have(1861) but you have put Catherine down as a daughter she was in fact Williams niece and her surname was Lowe.
I found Williams marriage to Ann (Sherry), Jan - Mar 1845 Wigan vol 12 pg 639.
Also on the 1861 census it has Ann Sherry (mother-in-law), aged 80, born Ireland. I think she was in fact grandmother-in-law as I found Ann (Williams wife) in 1841 in Wigan with father Phillip (35) and mother Catherine (35) both born in Ireland with Ann(13),Thomas(11),Catherine(8), Ellen(6), Mary(3) and Elizabeth(1).
I think your best bet would be to get the marriage certificate and work from there to confirm Anna parents and get Williams fathers name.
Regards
K
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1871 ref RG10 piece 3933 folio 140 page 48
William and 3 children, Catherine, 25, James 23, Sarah 20 (there is a birth in Dec 1850 which could be her). William is a widower working as a cotton picker, Catherine is a housekeeper, James a cotton carder and Sarah a cotton winder. There is also a lodger.
Lizzie
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karenbest there are 2 Catherines on the 1861 Catherine Bamber daughter and Catherine Lowe Neice
Ann Sherry seems to be Ann Bamber(Sherrys) mother
they are together in 1841
Patricks Row
Patrick Sherry 50
ann Sherry 50
ann sherry 15
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Many, many thanks for the help and advice it is very much appreciated.
1871 Ref RG 10 piece3933 folio 140 page98.
Sorry don't think this is the right family, but ill keep them on file.
I think the marriage certificate for William and Ann will have to be my next move, wish me luck, once again many thanks for your help and time.
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Hi,
Karenbest500's information is incorrect. It's a different Ann. Your Ann married William Bamber. She's the daughter of William and Ann Sherry, who were both born around 1780/82 in Ireland. She seems to be the youngest child. The Ann Sherry in 1861 really is the mother-in-law. William's parents were Patrick and (another) Ann. They are in the 1851 census on ancestry.co.uk as PATRICK CHERREY. Catherine Bamber (i.e. Ann and William Bamber's daughter) either lived with them or was there on census night. The mentioned Catherine Lowe is the daughter of Ann Bamber's , nee Sherry, sister Bridget, who married Thomas Lowe. Bridget died quite young, I think in 1854, which may be why Catherine was living with her aunt. Ann and Bridget had at least one elder brother callled William. One of his children - Bridget - married the brother of my great-grandfather. That's why I know all this. I haven't got my notes in front of me at the moment, but I can give you some death and marriage dates if you are interested.
Regards,
LEP
P.S. The above-mentioned mother-in-law died at son William's house (11, Morris's Yard, Duke Street) aged 86.
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hello LEP, Many thanks for getting in touch and for your king offer it is very much appreciated.
Before accepting you very kind offer I have to say we are having some problems in establishing Catherine Bamber as the mother of the 3 children born to John Sherliker, Tinplate Worker, b,Preston.
After a very extensive searches on Ancestry, findmypast, IGI, Lancs BMD no record of birth for the 3 children had been.
However a request for a look-up on here did turn up a birth record for a Nellie Sherleker 1883 in Wigan.
We got the Certificate from Wigan.
Ft, John Sherleker - Tinplate Worker - b Preston.
Mother, Catherine Hickman.
Without a birth certificate for anyone of the other two children its impossible to be certain that the Catherine Bamber married to John Sherliker in Wigan 1979 is the correct family.
Do you have any informatiom on William Bamber married to Ann Sherry, had William Bamber been married before, was Catherine Bamber, Ann Bambers ( Sherry) .Mother.
Any thing that you can think of that might help untangle this knot would be very, very welcome.
So sorry for such a long winded reply, just dont want to waste your time or abuse your kind offer if we have the wrong Catherine.
Regards, Gem
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Hi Gem,
You certainly seem to have a problem. Since I'm at a dead end with my own research at the moment; I thought I'd try to help. Well here goes:
PATRICK and ANN SHERRY had (at least) the children
WILLIAM, BRIDGET and ANN.
The youngest ANN married WILLIAM BAMBER in 1845 (Wigan reference ROW/3/11)
They had (at least) the children JANE (b. abt. 1845), CATHERINE (b. 1847) and JAMES (b. 1858). They also probably had a son called WILLIAM who died at the age of 12 days on 9th October 1860 and most likely a daughter called MARY ANN, b. 1864. One could assume because of the big age difference that Catherine and Jane could be the children of a first marriage, but there is no evidence of this. Ann and William were already married in 1845. I suspect they lost several children, like most other people at that time. The family are hard to find in 1851. Catherine was, of course, staying with her grandparents SHERRRY, and there was a Jane of the right age staying with a grandmother BAMBER in Blackburn. However, I don't know whether she is the correct Jane as she supposedly was not born in Wigan.
In 1861, the family is together with grandma SHERRY and Bridget's daughter CATHERINE LOWE.
However, there is also another Catherine Bamber aged 8, born abt 1853, in this census. She is the daughter of JAMES BAMBER, 40, and ELLEN BAMBER, 38. She has three sisters, Mary, 16, Ann, 10, and Abigail, 2.
It seems to me that these two CATHERINE BAMBERS married in 1874 and 1879 respectively:
CATHERINE BAMBER married WILLIAM COX in 1874 (ROW/37/191), which indicates a RC marriage where the registrar was present. William Bamber was CofE, but Ann Sherry was an Irish Catholic, who would presumably have wanted the children baptised as Catholics.
The other CATHERINE BAMBER married JOHN SHERLIKER in 1879 (C11/4/26). This was a Church of England marriage.
If I were guessing, I'd say you need the other Catherine and not the one with the Sherry ancestry. But perhaps I am wrong. Have you bought this marriage certificate?
The COXes are easy to find in the 1881 census, They have John, 12, who was probably from a first marriage, William,6, Joseph,4, and Ellen, 6. The name Ellen makes me hesitate a little as the mother of the CATHERINE BAMBER, b. 1853 was Ellen. It was usual to call one of the daughters after the grandmother.
I can't find the SHERLIKERs (and all kinds of variations of the name) at all. In Preston in the 1881 census, in St Peter's district, there is a John Sherliker, aged 45, who is married but living alone as a boarder, but he seems to work in a cotton factory. There's also an Alice Sherlicer, 35, which would be the correct age. She's a cotton weaver (weren't they all?) and is also living alone although married, in the same district. This Alice seems to have died aged 56 in 1914, which would place her birth at the time of CATHERINE BAMBER nee SHERRY. There is the possibility that her name was CATHERINE ALICE and that in later life she preferred to be called Alice. I know this seems far-fetched, but it did actually happen. No Catherine Sherliker died in Lancashire in the 100 years folllowing Catherine Bamber's birth. There was also no marriage of a Sherlicker to a Hickman. I couldn't find the birth of Nellie in 1883, but it obviously happened if you have the birth cerificate. Could she have possibly been John's illegitimate daughter with Catherine Hickman? Illegitimate children certainly weren't unusual in those days among the lower classes.
You can't find the BAMBERs after 1861 because (1) William Bamber died on 16th December 1869 and (2) Ann was probably listed as Sherry and not Bamber. In 1871, she seems to have been living with her brother JAMES (another candidate as a child of Patrick and Ann Sherry, together with Owen and a couple of others that I can't yet prove) and child MARY ANN BAMBER, aged 7. James probably told the censor Ann was his sister and so he wrote down Sherry. At any rate, ANN BAMBER died at the same address (Patrick's Row, Wigan Lane) on 9th July 1880 and so did not appear in any more censuses.
That's all I can tell you at the moment. What were the names of the SHERLIKER/BAMBER children? I'm often messing about on ancestry and other sites and would keep things in mind.
Good luck with your search!
LEP
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Hi LEP,
Really appreciate all the info and your time.
Very informing the fact that Ann Sherry was RC, Catherines son John JamesSherliker went on to marry a Roman Catholic. We always assumed that's where the RC part entered the family.
Now I'm thinking maybe not and we need to concentrate on RC records at Wigan.
Do you have any info on whats available there, did the sherry family favour any particular Church.
Yes we have the marriage cert; for John & Catherine, don't have it to hand at the moment, as i said in an earlier post this is not my F/Tree, I'm trying to help a friend.
From memory.
John Sherliker 39-Bachelor-Tinplate Worker-b, Preston. ( he has been a bit economic there, he was b, 1839)
Catherine Bamber 37-spinster-b, Wigan.
Ft, of Groom, John Sherliker-Cotton spinner-b.Preston, Deceased.
Ft, of Bride, William Bamber-Labourer-b, (not sure need to check,could be Thornton or Wigan) Deceased.
Both John&Catherine gave place of residence as Miry Lane, Wigan.
Both made a x.
!881 census - No1 Hay St
head John Shelecar 39 Tinplate worker b Hindley
Wife Cath 37 b,Wigan.
1891/1901/ the same family are in Ardwick, Chorlton, Manchester.
1911, Catherine is living with her son John Jamesage as Head-Age 30, and his widowed sister Lilly Ward (Sherliker)age 26.
John died in 1901 Age 60 and is buried at Philips Parks, Salford.
Catherine died 1914 Age64 and is buried at Gorton Cemetery, also buried at Gorton - Catherine's daughter Ellen Dewsbury (Sherkiker)1946, age 64.
marriage reg; for Lilly she is calling herself Lillean, any Lilleans in the Sherry family.
Hope you get a breakthrough soon, lots of luck and thanks for your help.
Regards, Gem71
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Hi Gem,
I was typing a note at the same time as you, so now I'm going to review what I wrote in the light of what you've written.
I found the Sherliker family in 1891 with children John James, Nellie and Lilley living in Ardwick, Manchester. Only John and Nelly are listed in 1901. I found the birth of Ellen Sheleker (sic) in 1882 (WIG/144/374). Is this the certificate you've got? If you have the marriage certificate of William and Catherine and her father's name is William, then it is the Catherine Bamber with the Sherry ancestors. Miry Lane is down Wallgate and William Bamber (born in Thornton) died in that area. If John and Catherine had their children baptised in a RC church, then it would probably have been in St Joseph's. This church is now unfortunately closed, but I believe that the parish priest in St Jude's is quite helpful. Perhaps, they also have records in the history shop in Wigan. There are no records of St Joseph's online. I don't know of any Lileans in the Sherry family, but perhaps the Lily bit is from the Bambers. No answer to the Catherine Hickman mystery yet!!
Keep hunting!
LEP
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Hi LEP
, We have a further Wallgate connection.
John James WW1 record stated he was born Wallgate, Wigan.
Ill have a chat with my fried to-morrow and get Ellen (Nellie) birth details.
Im starting to feel a lot more confident about being on the right track.
Do you know where in Ireland the Sherrys came from and have you had any luck with Irish records.
Im off to bed now, people my age(see aviator) should be tucked up by now.
Good Nigh and God Bless.
Gem71
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Hi GEM,
A further Wallgate connection is that a Catherine Hickman was living at 17b Wallgate Street in 1871. She was 20 and living with her aunt. Although it says b. Wigan, this does not have to be true. I know from books I've read on the topic that the people sometimes said they were born in the place they were living at although this was not true. The previous address on the census was MIRY LANE. In 1881 Catherine Hickman, aged 30, but not b. in Wigan, is living with her parents Charles and Ann in ARDWICK MANCHESTER. Weren't the Sherliker family also in Ardwick? She seems to have married James Hughes in Aug/Sept/Oct of that year. When was Nellie born? In 1882? Do you think she was a love child? Another possibility is that Catherine was widowed and that John Sherliker and Catherine Bamber took in the child. They could have been distantly related. I don't think they went in for formal adoptions much in those days.
I may have stumbled across JOHN JAMES. In the national birth registers there is a JOHN JAMES SELKIR (written in a second entry as SELKIRK), born in Wigan in 1881 in July/Aug/Sept (WIG/138/195). The name, the place and the year are correct and at least the first version of the name is fairly similar. I think it's worth a try. If you go to Wigan yourself and say you only want the certificate if the parents are John and Catherine, you sometimes don't have to pay and you know from elimination that this is the wrong James. However, I have a hunch that this could be him. No luck with Lily, yet.
I don't know where the Sherrys were from although I know that a lot of them came from Armagh. I only have a tenuous connection to them as Bridget Sherry, b. 1837 married my great-grandfather's brother. I just like playing detective.
Have a nice day,
LEP
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Hi GEM,
I think I was a bit too hasty with Catherine Hickman. The one in Wallgate and the one in Manchester are not the same one. I should have looked the Manchester one up in the 1871 census first. She's there with parents Charles and Ann.
I can't find JOHN JAMES SELKIR(K) in the 1891 census, which means he either died or he is perhaps your JOHN JAMES. I also found an ELIZABETH A. (presumably Ann) SHALLIKER born in Hulme Manchester in 1885 (HUL/252/95). Perhaps Lily wasn't born in Wigan. Lily is a short form of Elizabeth as well as of Lilian. At her wedding, she perhaps said her name was Lily Ann. She also does not seem to be in the 1891 census so she could be your Lily or dead. It's a pity you can only get the parents from the birth certificates. It's so expensive to keep on buying the wrong ones.
Regards,
LEP
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Hi LEP,
May thanks for your time and your help,.
What a confusing lot the Sherliker are and all those variants don't help.
(My friend says there were Shalliker in Salford when he was growing up but no relation) I'm not so sure.
John James is at RG12/3168/54/14 same address again in 1901 bit this time Nellie has lost a few years and Lilley is missing.
The next time i locate Lilley is her marriage Reg: 1905 Preswich, to a John Ward and she is calling herself, ( Liillean).
1911 and she is widowed age 26, living with John James and their mother Catherine 64,widow,married33yrs, 3 children to the marriage, 3 children still living.
All say b, Wigan.
I couldn't find a James Bamber with a Catherine age8, Did find a John Bamber with Catherine age 8, did you mean John, not James?
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Hi GEM,
Don't keep thanking me - I'm looking because I'm intrigued myself. I pride myself on being a bit of a detective and I have helped a few people to get a bit further back with their research. I can't do anything more with my own lines until I buy some more certificates and do a few look-ups in Wigan at the end of March when I'll be spending a week in the town I grew up in but left at the age of 18. And I do have a kind of link to the Sherry/Bambers.
Yes, I did mean John. I was writing from memory without my scribblings and got a bit confused. However, if the death date of Catherine Sherliker is correct, then she was born in 1847. This is when the Bamber/Sherry Catherine was born. I know her age goes a bit haywire in the censuses, but that's usual. I looked at the 1861 census again and I'm convinced that the age of her sister Jane is wrong. She is described as being 17 and a scholar!! I don't think they went in much for A-levels in those circles in those days!!! Actually, A-levels didn't exist, but you know what I mean. They were most likely illiterate. Sister Jane seems to have married a Michael Murphy in 1872, but they seem to disappear, although I haven't looked intensely. The youngest sister Mary Ann b. 1864 probably married John Matthews in 1886. I thought perhaps the absent Lilly may have been staying with a relative in 1901. I'd also already seen the entry for Ardwick and noticed she was missing. By the way, none of the above marriages seem to be CofE marriages. They had to have the registrar present and begin with ROW.... I'm sure all the Bamber/Sherry children were Catholics. In the Wigan cemetry index almost all the Bambers are CofE except the William who died at 12 days (Wiliam and Ann's son) and Ann Bamber nee Sherry herself and about 6 children I take to be the children of James Bamber (Catherine's brother) who married Annie Burns in 1886 (ROW/62/181). That's a sad story - they seem to have lost all their children in infancy and are still childless in 1901.
I think you should try getting that birth certificate of John James Selkir (1) born 1881 in Wigan. This is only the transcription of the handwriting on the birth certificate and it could be that the actual handwriting says Shelkir or something like that. I don't think every birth was registered in the 1840s but I think that by the 1880s, people knew that they had to register births. I can't understand how two children can disappear completely. I don't think Lilly was born as Lilly. Lil(l)ian also did not seem to be a popular name at the time. I can't find any Bamber or Sherry Lilians although it was common to name children after relatives. I wouldn't dismiss the Elizabeth A. Shalliker offhand. If you are no wiser by the end of March, I could ask about John James in the registry office. Since I'll be buying several certificates, perhaps they will do one look-up for nothing. They've always been nice when I've been there. Or are you in Wigan yourself?
The other mystery is the Catherine Hickman who was in Wallgate in 1871. No Catherine/Catharine/Cathrine/Katie Hickman(n) married or died in Lancashire between 1871 and 1895, but she doesn't seem to be in the censuses after 1871 either. The only marriage is the one of the Manchester Catherine to someone called Hughes. "Curiouser and curiouser..", as Alice would have said in Wonderland. I don't know what she would have said about all the census incongruities.
Just one question: What's the address on Nelly's birth certificate?
And keep digging in a double sense!
LEP
P.S. I had a friend at primary school who was called Kathleen. It was only when she needed her birth certificate when she wanted to get married that she discovered her birth name was actually Teresa Catherine! As a tip to solving the Lilly-problem!
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Hi LEP
Sorry for the delay in getting back, bathroom refurbish turning into a night mare.
Birth Certificate address for (Ellen Sheleker 1882)
No 10 James St, Miry Lane, Wigan.
Just had a look at the marriage cert; for Catherine Bamber to John Sherliker 1879.
Witnesses, Martha Walch and Edward Ingleman.
Thought they maybe useful.
I agree about getting John James Cert, we can get to Wigan, just need to sort this bathroom out first.
Gem71
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Hi GEM,
I think it's vital to get the birth certificate of at least another child to establish the mother. I have another wild theory:
I've found the death of a Catherine Sherliker aged 37 in Liverpool in 1880. This was the age on the marriage certificate. Depending on the month the Sherlikers married and the month Catherine died, this age would fit exactly. I've found out from my own research that people then actually moved about within the area more than I would have thought. Suppose this Catherine died, for example in childbirth. John went back to Wigan and took up with Catherine Hickman, the niece of Elizabeth Wood in the census of 1871. They never marry but live "over the brush" as my mother would have said. She calls herself Sherliker and has three children with John. This sort of thing was not unusual. My great-great-grandfather had a wife named Elizabeth whose age was a bit strange throughout the censuses. Then I discovered that his wife had died at the age of 37. I presumed he had married another Elizabeth - she was a widow - but could not find evidence of a marriage. He had two children with this Elizabeth, but there was a stepson, too, who still had his old surname. When my great-great-grandfather died, Elizabeth the second remarried with this same surname. In fact, she had never been married to my g.g.grandfather!! (She said she was his wife though in the censuses!) But the two children had his name, also in later censuses. I don't know, but it's a possiblility. Death certificate?? There must be some explanation for the contradictions.
No more ideas about Lily, yet. I've looked through all the births with 'S' and even with 'C' for strange spellings in Wigan. Perhaps she was born somewhere else. Even your John says he was born in Hindley and not Preston in one of the censuses. If two of the children were born in Wigan, maybe the census taker decided they all were.
In my post from 14th January, I wote William instead of Patrick. Sorry! I do this sometimes from memory and I've got so many different lines in my head.
We need to redo our bathroom, too...and the kitchen, the living room, the bedrooms.....
Regards,
LEP
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Hi GEM,
I think it's vital to get the birth certificate of at least another child to establish the mother. I have another wild theory:
I've found the death of a Catherine Sherliker aged 37 in Liverpool in 1880. This was the age on the marriage certificate. Depending on the month the Sherlikers married and the month Catherine died, this age would fit exactly. I've found out from my own research that people then actually moved about within the area more than I would have thought. Suppose this Catherine died, for example in childbirth. John went back to Wigan and took up with Catherine Hickman, the niece of Elizabeth Wood in the census of 1871. They never marry but live "over the brush" as my mother would have said. She calls herself Sherliker and has three children with John. This sort of thing was not unusual. My great-great-grandfather had a wife named Elizabeth whose age was a bit strange throughout the censuses. Then I discovered that his wife had died at the age of 37. I presumed he had married another Elizabeth - she was a widow - but could not find evidence of a marriage. He had two children with this Elizabeth, but there was a stepson, too, who still had his old surname. When my great-great-grandfather died, Elizabeth the second remarried with this same surname. In fact, she had never been married to my g.g.grandfather!! (She said she was his wife though in the censuses!) But the two children had his name, also in later censuses. I don't know, but it's a possiblility. Death certificate?? There must be some explanation for the contradictions.
No more ideas about Lily, yet. I've looked through all the births with 'S' and even with 'C' for strange spellings in Wigan. Perhaps she was born somewhere else. Even your John says he was born in Hindley and not Preston in one of the censuses. If two of the children were born in Wigan, maybe the census taker decided they all were.
In my post from 14th January, I wote William instead of Patrick. Sorry! I do this sometimes from memory and I've got so many different lines in my head.
We need to redo our bathroom, too...and the kitchen, the living room, the bedrooms.....
Regards,
LEP
We seem to be typing at the same time!
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Hi LEP,
Thinking the same as you, we ordered the cert; from memory
( Catherine, wife of ? sheliker, Butcher. Wigan ) will do further checks on the cert; to-morrow.
I think i once came across a birth reg; for a John Sherliker b,1838 in Wigan.
I agree without a birth certificate for 1 more child we will never be sure of the mother maiden name.
The John James one for 1881 maybe a no go but worth a try.
Lilly married in 1905 widowed in 1911, 7yr marriage 1 child ( Flora age4 b, Openshaw.
Not used the mother name, maybe lost some children early in the marriage.
I think this is going to test all of your detecting skills.
Refurbishing, if your thinking of getting a shower, be very,very careful if your ordering a Daryl.
Ordering in the past was done by what door you wanted ( left hand or right door) now ordering is done by fixed panel.
This has caused mega problems as some sales people haven't got the new catalogs yet and are still ordering from the old catalogues.
They will tell you that all cubical is revers able, you need a conversion kit to do this. ( easier said that done, Daryl will take no responsabilty for any damage done during the conversion).
Lots of luck with the refurb, a pain while its being done but worth it in the end.
I have to keep telling myself that, as i trip over the shower cubical and 2 convershion kits (sent the wrong one first time) sitting in my concervatory, whlst waiting for a further cubical to be deliverd with any luck to-morrow.
Take care, Gem.
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Hi GEM,
There does seem to be a birth of a John Sherliker in Hindley in 1839 (HNDL/1/361) but where does he vanish to? I can't find a corresponding family in 1841 and he also doesn't seem to have died, at least not in the Wigan area. There was also a John Sherliker born in Preston in 1842. So "would the real John Sherliker please stand up?" (Do you know the old TV show?) I don't know why he was born in Preston on his marriage certificate and on Nelly's birth certificate, but born in Hindley in the 1881 census. Perhaps he grew up in Preston, but then remembered that he had been told he was born in Hindley....whatever! . By the way in 1861, a 22-yearold John Sherliker born in Preston - fits in with 1839 - was lodging in PRESTWICH cum Oldham in Burns Street.
The Catherine Sherliker who died in Liverpool died in the Jan/Feb/Mar quarter. Why do you think she was not John's wife? There does not seem to be anyone born Catherine Sherliker in Liverpool in the period in question and there was no Sherliker marriage to a Catherine. The only Sherliker marriage in Liverpool between 1868 and 1931 that I can find is of a Herbert Sherliker to Cecilia Laffey. So here's my new story:
The young couple wanted to better themselves and set up a butcher's shop in Liverpool. Tragically the young wife died and the husband was forced to return home and work as a tin smith again. My g.g.grandfather (the one with the two Elizabeths) 's brother was a coal miner with no education until he suddenly became a tea dealer and in 1901 was living in a 7-bedroomed house near Mesnes Park in Wigan. Pity my own g.g.grandfather didn't show similar initiative. He continued living seven in a room in a hovel in Scholes!!
My story is substantiated by the fact that Catherine Hickman vanishes after this, and I can't find a marriage for her. Also she was supposedly born in 1850, which actually ties in better with the death date of Catherine Sherliker in 1914. The irritating thing is that although she claims to have been born in Wigan in the 1871 census, I can't find a birth. She could, of course, have been married at 18 and widowed at 20, but like Lily, she is rather elusive. If Catherine Hickman does turn out to be the mother, it's going to be almost impossible to trace her back! I know quite a bit about the Bambers/Sherrys.
I am stumped with Lily and very, very frustrated. I don't think there's a spelling of Sherliker/Selecar/Shirliker/Shorliker/Shalliker etc. that I haven't tried. But don't forget we are dealing with transcriptions. It must be quite hard transcribing page after page of names and quite easy to overlook an entry. I don't know whether it is possible to access the original records in Wigan and look through all the records for 1884 -1887. Perhaps you can pay for a professional search. I don't know whether it is worth that much to you or your friend. I know they do searches in Ireland, but they are quite expensive. Let's keep our fingers crossed with John James Selkir(k)! The other possibility is baptism records. I'm sure most children were christened at the time. If they were Catholics as the Sherrys were, then I'd look for St Joseph's records. If the children were CofE, the I'd look at the records of St Thomas in Wallgate. This is where John Sherliker and Catherine Bamber apparently married.
I think perhaps Lily was at home in 1901. The census takers had loads to do and were dealing with people who couldn't read or write. They probably told a confused story. Nelly and Lily don't sound too different. I think the census taker started writing down Nelly's details and ended up with Lily's date of birth, i.e. he made one sister out of two. Stranger things have happened in these censuses. I correspond with a descendent of the Sherrys who is totally confused because one of the daughters married a McDonnell and they appear on various certificates as McDonnell or McDonald, which makes it really difficult to know whether you are dealing with the right family.
Keep me informed,
Linda
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LEP, you have been a Star, will let you know if anything turns up.
Loads of luck with your own research.
Gem.
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Hi GEM,
I can't forget these missing Sherliker births. I was looking for the opening times of the History Shop in Wigan and what records they have as I want to do some research of my own at the end of March and I noticed that the baptism records for both St Joseph's and St Thomas's are on microfiche for the 1880s.
I've also got some information about the Hickmans but it's quite complicated involving wrong spellings etc. If you find out details of the other children that seem to indicate that Catherine Hickman is the mother, I'll send you what I know. But for now, I don't want to confuse the issue. It seems complicated enough. By the way, I noticed an old thread from 2003. Have you been working on the missing Lily since then?
Best wishes.
LEP
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Hi LEP, yes this has been an on /off search for a long time for my friend.
I have dipped in and out in the past trying to help him but we have never been able to find any sign of a birth Reg; for John James or Lilly.
Regrettably my friend can no longer get about so I'm going to have to do the research at Wigan when i get a bit of time. Just need to get this refurbishment over with and i should have some time before the growing season starts.
Many thanks for the heads-up on the records at Wigan. Ill give the St Josephs records a go first as Tom (my friend) has done the St Thomas ones.
Take care, and lots of luck.
Gem.
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Hi GEM,
Do you remember me from the beginning of the year?? I've just been deleting old emails when I came across the link to rootschat and I wondered if you had had any more luck with those Sherlickers (John James, Ellen and Lily)?? I got quite involved with them and so it would interest me if you got any further. After all, more records have been published over the year.
A Happy New Year to you!
Linda (LEP1950)
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Dear Gem,
Don't know whether you are ever going to read this, but doing something else, I stumbled across the birth of a Jane Hickman in Wigan in 1853 (WIG/39/104). The interesting thing is that the maiden name of the mother is given as SHERRY. You might remember that Catherine Bamber's mother's name was Ann Sherry. I can't find a marriage of a Sherry to a Hickman, but it could be that the mother of Jane Hickman was a widow with the maiden name Sherry. I think it's highly possible that she had more children, perhaps a Catherine, who was Hickman from the beginning or became Hickman through a second marriage. Anyway, there were not all that many Sherrys in Wigan and most of them were related. It is possible that Catherine Bamber and Catherine Hickman were cousins. If Catherine Bamber did die in Liverpool around 1880, it's possible that her cousin stepped in to look after John James and one thing led to another... Fact is that Catherine Hickman vanishes.
There is more intertwining. OWEN SHERRY (Ann Bamber nee Sherry's brother) married CATHERINE WOOD in 1842. JOHN WOOD (probably her brother) married ELIZABETH HICKMAN in 1839. This is the aunt that CATHERINE HICKMAN was living with in Wallgate in 1871, i.e. Elizabeth Wood.
I know it's very complex, but I've got interested in the case again.
Please write!
Linda