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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: Colin Y on Sunday 15 November 09 23:10 GMT (UK)
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Hello Pals,
Can any kind soul help a cousin in NZ find the true origins of her Gt Gt Grandfather above.
There was some family connection with Ligthouses or similar and possibly with Harwich (albeith in Essex!)
His dad may have been a Thomas Newson? Dad may have married twice and son left UK for NZ in about 1858, possibly originally bound for Oz.
There may be a connection with th surname Watt as well but its all a touch confused.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Colin
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Hi
Did he die in NZ? If he died after 1875 - the death cert will have his parents names including his mothers maiden name
The 1841 census has 3 entries in Suffolk for a Henry Newson b 1839-1841 - none of whom had a father called Thomas or a connection to lighthouses.
No entries for Essex
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Thanks Carole
Sadly his D C does not have his mothers name on it!
Our enquiries this AM suggest he may have been the son of Thomas and Jane and his father was a Coastguard and lived in Felixstowe.
His DC says he was born in Woodbridge. From his DC we can only estimate birth at 1840 it could be a year either side.
Does that open any of the 3 records you found on the 1851?
Colin
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Hi Colin,
I may have found something .
Maybe a possibility as names sort of match.
Felixstowe is in the Woodbridge reg district.
1841 Census
East End,
Felixstow, Suffolk
HO107/1021/3/Felixstow
Henry NEWSON (Jnr or Snr), 25, Mariner
Sarah Hewson, 20
HENRY Newson, 12mths
Sarah Hewson, 4mths
All born in County
On same page are lots of WATTS families including a Thomas Watts and wife Jane aged 50 and 45. He is a Mariner also.
Also a Thomas Newson and wife Jane age 24/19 with one child Elizabeth age 8mths.
I cant find a Marriage though for Henry and Sarah ???
Trish :)
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From IGI at Familysearch;
Henry William NEWSON
Born 21 January 1840
Christened 26 July 1840, Felixstow, Suffolk, England
Parents HENRY and SARAH
Siblings;
SARAH, born 25 Jan 1841, christened 09 Oct 1842
JOHN, born 19 Sept 1842, christened 09 October 1842
There are others later but maybe to second wife. Will try and find family in 1851 Census to check.
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It looks like Hnery only had one wife;
1851 Census
Felixstow, Suffolk
HO107/1801/346/5
Henry NEWSON, 40 Head, Mar, Pilot, born Felixstow, Sfk
Sarah, 33, Wife, Mar, born Walton, Sfk
HENRY, 11, Son, Unm, Scholar, born Felixstow
Sarah, 10, Daug, At Home, born Felixstow
John, 8, Son, At Home, born Felixstow
Maria, 6, At Home, born Felixstow
William, 2, Son, At Home, born Felixstow
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This may be your lighthouse connection ???
Henry Snr is a Harbour Pilot.
1861 Census
Felixstow Ferry,
Fellixstow, Suffolk
RG9/1168/7/8
Henery (sic) NEWSON, 50, Head, Mar, Trinity Pilot, born Felixstow
Sarah, 45, Wife, Mar, born Walton
Sarah, 20, Daug, Unm, born Felixstow
William, 12, Son, Unm, Scholar born Felixstow
Edward, 2, Son, Unm, born Felixstow
Interestingly from 1841 Census Henry is deiscribed a Jnr.
Living near him in 1861 is Henery Newson, aged 72, Widower, former Mariner, born Orford, Sfk. Possibly his Father?
Christening;
Edward Newson, 07 August 1859, Felixstow. Parents Henry and Sarah
So Henry born 1840 has left home and I cannot find him on any other Census post 1851.
1871 Census
RG10/1758/7/5
Sarah Newson is aged, 54, a Widow, Annuitant, born Walton. Son William aged 20, Mariner, is at home with her.
Death;
Henry NEWSON
March 1871
Woodbridge 4a 441, Age 60 ( so born c 1811)
She appears on the 1881/1891/1901 Census. In 1901 she is age 82.
Death;
Sarah NEWSON
March 1907
Woodbridge 4a 702, Age 89
Cheers,
Trish :)
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IGI extracted record;
Henry NEWSON
Christened 10 August 1810, Felixstow, Suffolk
Parents, Henry NEWSON and Jane PASSIFUL
Marriage, Extracted;
Henry NEWSON/Jane PASSIFUL, 04 July 1810, Felixstow, Suffolk
Janes christening is on the IGI 1792, Felixstow
Submitted record has same christening date and parents but has info that it occured, St Peter St Paul Church
It also has he married Sarah ( Surname unknown) abt 1839, Walton, Sfk
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After posting all of that I feel really silly as I forgot to ask what is on his Marriage Cert in NZ?
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Well, thank you so much for all that information Trish, I have not yet received the marraige cert for Henry, it will be interesting. This is my first time on this site, my "cousin" Colin has started me off. You have given me so much to look into! Many thanks for your time.
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Hi Linda,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
I will see what else I can find.
I am awaiting with anticipation the info from the Cert.
Trish
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Marriage;
Henry NEWSON
June 1839
Woodbridge
12 715
On same page is a Sarah GOODING
Could some other kind Rootschatter find any other info on this Marriage please ;)
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Hi Trish,
The second marriage of Henry Newson in 1898, says he is born in Suffick, his father is Thomas Newson, a fisherman and his mother is Mary nee Ellison. Henry told at least 2 of his sons that his real name was Watt and that he fled England bound for Australia and took the name of Henry Newson, a crew member who died on board ship. He then "jumped ship" and went to NZ. His death cert, if correct would put this about 1858. He married in Wellington NZ in 1862. (just a story quite probably, however...) The Watts and Newsons are neighbours in the 1841 and 1851 cenus, there are 2 boys aged the same, Henry Newson and Alfred Watts. Interestingly the names of my Henry's children born in NZ, are the same as Alfred Watts siblings. So I am trying to find out what happened to Alfred Watts and Henry Newson from the 1841 and 1851 census..
I have found a Thomas Watts married to Mary Ann Ellis in 1832 in Walton Suffock, where Mary was born, Thomas is from Flelixtowe, his mother was Jane Passiful and there is also a Newson who married a Passiful, so maybe Alfred watts and henry Newson (from the census) were even cousins? I admit I have not really "digested" this as yet, let alone made sense of it. Any thoughts?
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Hi Linda,
Congrats o pulling that all together!
I wonder if you might get Dad to consider giving a gene sample, for comparison purposes if/when you find some Watt male line descendants?
Colin
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There is a Henry Newson who married in 1863 in new zealand to a Sophia Dowsett?
Could that be him?
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This Henry Newson is my Great Great GrandFather.
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There is a Henry Newson who married in 1863 in new zealand to a Sophia Dowsett?
Could that be him?
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Hi Shaye,
Colin is still active on Rootschat.
Linda hasnt been on Rootschat since 2010 so hopefully is still around and will see this.
Quote from Linda NZ;
The second marriage of Henry Newson in 1898, says he is born in Suffick, his father is Thomas Newson, a fisherman and his mother is Mary nee Ellison. Henry told at least 2 of his sons that his real name was Watt and that he fled England bound for Australia and took the name of Henry Newson.
Were you aware that Henry married twice?
2nd Marriage NZ BDM;
1898/1519 Mary Ann Sophia Nixon/Henry Newson
Trish :)
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Hi,
Yes i was aware he was married twice. I have researched both.
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Henry's Second marriage to Sophia Ann is my blood line.
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My Family's maiden name is Newson
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Evening Post 30 April 1920 p8 Obituary for Henry NEWSON
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19200430.2.123?
Search here for service Maoiri conflict -
http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/armedconstab/armedconstabulary.html
BDM NZ marriage
1863/7859 Henry NEWSON marr. Sophia Ann DOWSETT
1898/1519 Henry NEWSON marr. Mary Ann Sophia NIXON
You are descended from the first?...or second marriage?
Can you please list all the details on each of the-
marriage record 1863
marriage record 1898
death record 1920
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Im down from Sophia Ann Newson (Nee Dowsett)'s line.
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Hello,
Yes, I’m still posting and remain amused by the story of Henry. Its a confusing story as he intended.
His story related about jumping ship while fleeing from England is close to the reality but not quite right.
With help from folk in Kew and in Suffolk I Learned a lot about Henry and his real identity. A clue was his engagement information provided to the authorities as required in NZ then before his second marriage.
His ship was a British Naval ship and the year of interest was 1861.
I am not currently at liberty to share the full details but maybe😉
The two Families concerned were from Felixstowe Ferry in Suffolk - Harwich is across in Essex😞
You might be interested to know there was another member of the Watts family in Dunedin at that time!
I hope this gives those of you interested useful lines to follow that could lead you to the right conclusions without ‘giving the game away’ and spoiling your fun or breaching any confidence.
Have fun
Colin
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Hello Newson and 'Newson' family and friends in NZ and UK....
I have today received permission to share my detailed conclusions relative to the true origins of Henry Newson who was a Saloner in Wellington, married a Miss Dowsett and, after her sad demise, married secondly a Miss Nixon before his own demise in Wellington NZ in 1920.
I propose to put the three elements into a folder in his name on my Dropbox and any genuine family members are invited to email me confirming their agreement to keep the information in the Family following which I will send them the link enabling them to share it?
Our concern is that commercial interests may try to get in!
Please send your request with your name and descent from 'Henry Newson' to my secure email set up solely for this purpose: u82l@boun.cr
By the way our real Henry (actually he was Henry William Newson) 's father was also a Henry as was his grandfather. None of them were born in Harwich which is and was in the County of Essex; our Newsons were Suffolk folk, back for several generations. You will find an Ancestral Tree with the other data in Dropbox.
I look forward to hearing from you
Colin - actual cousin to Linda! ;-)
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Hi Colin,
If this is the invitation you mentioned then I tried emailing, but it doesnt work!
Im Descended from Sophia Ann Dowsett
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We'll I am blowed!
Shaye
Please have one more try please to: and Ill send you the link by return.
Arthur and Alfred were not twins and none of the Watts Children had a middle name of Newson.
As you will read and calculate Arthur knew his cousin had died before he left Sheerness on HMSS Fawn. His action recorded by RN records are in June 61 were pretty unequivocal... as you will read.
Sorry.
Colin
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Have emailed again.
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I am also newson, Sophia's line, does your link still work, I tried.
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Hi Rdale,
I'm from Sophia's line also.
Intriguing to know more about your generations.
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I'm down from Sophia and Henry's son Charles Edward Newson.
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Would like to contact, lost post. My grandad was henry earnest
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Ahhh I've done quite a bit of research on Henry Ernest's Parents Arthur Alfred Newson and Margaret Perry... And their siblings.
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Hi
I came upon this thread a couple of weeks ago and hope I can join it.
I'm another descendant of Henry Newson and Sophia Dowsett. One set of my great grandparents were Alice Catherine Newson and James Henry Butt. My descent from them is through female lines.
Over 40 years ago my mother told me that Henry Newson was born a Watts, and about 20 years ago I started trying to find him. I quickly realised that Harwich on his obituary was a red herring and the IGI led me to Felixstowe. But I was chasing an informal adoption which I could never prove.
I have also been aware of the story about his adopting the name from a dead seaman on board ship, and also another story that he took the name from a shop billboard as he walked along a street in Wellington fearful of being stopped by police. I have been a little skeptical about these.
Another family tradition was that at age 19 he came to NZ on a ship called the Lucy Ann. For years I could not find this ship, but have recently seen references to it, but without any success in tying him to it.
Colin, your reference to the Royal Navy has been a real breakthrough for me. I've chased up his C.S.N (34983) but that's about as far as I've got so far, apart from finding him (at sea) in the 1861 census. I tried to request an entry to your secure email without success, but would be very pleased to be allowed to enter if you are agreeable.
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Hi Beany,
Feel free to join. Welcome 😁
Have also done some research on Alice Catherine and James Henry Butts.
I've also tried to request entry many times and was also unsuccessful.
Henry Newson was born Arthur Watts as what we gathered.
Reasons why he changed his name is uncertain.
I know for a fact the Watts, Newsons & Passifuls were very close to each other. Neighbours at one point.
There are many stories out there. I too have heard multiples.
Rosemary Newson is also researching him, We might find something between us...
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Hi Shaye
Thanks for your welcome. I have followed your posts with interest. I have been working off and on for about 20 years looking at the various branches of my family tree. The two most troublesome of my ancestors have been Henry Newson and Richard Groombridge Butt (father of James Henry Butt). I haven't been able to find conclusive evidence of how/when both of these men arrived in NZ, probably because they both seem to have come as crew and jumped ship.
I have been in contact with Rosemary by email, and I agree we should work together if at all possible.I have got a fairly complete tree of Alice and "Harry" Butt's descendants and would be happy to share it
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Feel free to (*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
Would love to work together.
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Since my post a few weeks ago I have been doing some research on the events around Arthur's name change to Henry Newson. I cannot be sure about many of the details of what I have written below unless I see the critical documents at the UK National Archives, especially the ships' logs and muster rolls.These have not yet been digitised and must be viewed in person at Kew.
Any reader of this post may be familiar with the events described in it, and if so I would be grateful if you would correct my errors.
1. Arthur Watts signed to join the Royal Navy 7/9 November 1857.
His application states that he was born on 1 November 1843 at Felixstowe Ferry, Suffolk. His description: Height: 4 ft 8 inches; Complexion: fair; Hair: light; Eyes: hazel; Marks: none. He signed on as a "Boy 2nd class" for a term of 10 years from the age of 18. Two medical officers certified him "fit in all respects for Her Majesty's Service. Arthur was literate (he signed his own name). On 9 November his father Thomas consented to Arthur's enlisting by signing with his mark. The ship in which he was entered was Southampton. [Later he was assigned to HMS Fawn as you will see below].
Rdale: It is clear from your remarks in your email to me, that your cousin or the Newson at Tangimoana was familiar with this document.
2. Alfred, Arthur's brother, came to New Zealand in 1858.
A list of early Otago settlers states that Alfred Watts came to NZ in 1858. This list was compiled at about the time of Alfred's death in 1920. I have looked through some passenger lists from 1858, but haven't found him so far. He may have been a sailor and jumped ship as Arthur was later to do. I regard the date 1858 as probable, but not certain. I am certain that Alfred was here in NZ by late 1861 when he married, and I have ordered a copy of his marriage certificate. His Intention to Marry form would give an earlier date for this certainty, but I'm not planning to go to NZ National Archives in Wellington, any time soon.
3. A Henry Newson died "Drowned at Sea" on 13 November 1858.
I haven't found a record of a Henry Newson signing on to the Royal Navy at about this time.
The record I have seen is a list of R.N. deaths at sea. It gives no details of this Henry Newson's age or birthplace, so while it is probable that he is the Henry Newson closely connected to the Watts family of Felixstowe Ferry, I cannot be certain. All it states is that he was on HMS Intrepid and the place of death was "C G Hope", which I assume is the Cape of Good Hope, South Africa. But the Intrepid was assigned to the R.N.'s Mediterranean Fleet, so it shouldn't have been there. I need to see the ship's log book and muster roll if this person is the Henry Newson whose name Arthur Watts assumed. A record of his enlisting in the Royal Navy would also help.
(I have reached the maximum words for a post and will complete this in another post)
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4. Arthur Watts sailed as crew to NZ on HMS Fawn in 1860.
HMS Fawn sailed from Portsmouth on 21 February 1860 to join the R.N.'s Australian Fleet, and arrived at New Plymouth on 23 July. The Taranaki War had begun some months before and she disembarked 112 officers and men of the 12th Regiment of the British Army and 50 "bluejackets" (men of the Royal Marines) to join the forces fighting against Maori. Fawn was one of a half dozen or so British warships stationed in the SW Pacific, and she was here for about three and a half years. She mostly sailed in NZ waters. You can follow her voyages around NZ from newspaper reports in Papers Past from NZ National Library. The library also has a painting of the Fawn and another R.N. ship, HMS Miranda, at a regatta in January 1862 in Auckland.
From the information I have, I cannot determine the date and place of Arthur's desertion from Fawn. But the 1861 British census return shows that he was still on board on the night of Sunday April 7 1861, where he is listed as an Ordinary Seaman, single, aged 19 and born at Woodbridge, Suffolk. At that time the Fawn was at New Plymouth.
In his post of 10 August 2019 on this thread, Colin suggested that Arthur's actions in June 1861 "were pretty unequivocal" - perhaps he meant that he deserted at that time. In June 1861 Fawn went to Sydney for repairs to her machinery. While in Australia, an anti-Chinese riot by gold miners took place near Yass, and bluejackets from the Fawn helped the Australian police to put down the riot. Perhaps this was the the occasion and place of Arthur's desertion. Again the ship's log and muster roll should answer those questions. If he deserted in Australia, he must have come to NZ in another ship - I haven't found it. Also he must have adopted his new name.
Arthur was not alone in deserting from Fawn. In January 1861 18 seamen deserted from Fawn in Wellington, and further desertions occurred from time to time. A newspaper ad in March 1862 listed 21 names of deserters from Fawn in Auckland. She lost 105 men, including two officers, to desertion during her three and a half years here. One of the officers was the first lieutenant who "was last heard of as a cattle drover". Some deserters were captured and returned to the Fawn, but the ship was "scarcely half manned" by the end of her service. Before returning to Britain, Fawn sailed to Hobart Tasmania and recruited 20 boys to join the crew.
Fawn cannot have been a happy ship. Conditions aboard seem to have encouraged desertion. During its time in NZ waters, Fawn gained a reputation as a "flogging ship" - "we were hopeful that the Fawn was an exceptional vessel .....and that the punishment of flogging so frequently in use on board of her was not practiced in any of the other [ships]". The Captain, Ralph Cator was regarded as an overstrict disciplinarian. He sailed Fawn back to England under a cloud from comments made about him by the Commodore in Sydney, and was "paid out of commission" on his arrival [sacked?]. Arthur's former shipmates and others who had deserted and been recaptured faced a court martial on arrival in England and were sentenced to 12 - 18 months hard labour.
But the greatest incentive to desert during the Fawn's time in NZ came from June 1861 onwards with the discovery of gold at Gabriel's Gully in Central Otago. Men (and almost entirely men) flocked to Dunedin from all over NZ and many from Australia to "try their luck" on the goldfields. Otago's population rose from 12,691 in December 1860 to 30,260 in December 1861. As happened at San Francisco in 1848 during the Californian gold rush, ships' crews abandoned their vessels in port and captains found it difficult to find enough crew to sail away.
I haven't discovered if Arthur (now Henry Newson?) went to the goldfields as his brother Alfred and his wife Alison did (they lived at Bannockburn near Cromwell for a time), but perhaps his marriage to Sophia Ann Dowsett on 9 August 1863 anchored him to Wellington and her family there. But an older Henry Newson certainly showed considerable interest in gold rushes later in his life.
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Hello and oh Dear.... you have missed a lot.
I just tried to send you a piece on Arthur Watts that answered all of your question - his date and place of desertion - the record at the NA on the ships roll that showed him as having deserted using the recognised letters "RQ" meaning that when the ship departed for Oz he was found to have Run... after taking pay in advance.
Sadly what I had for you was >5000+ letters and not permissible.
Find me another way to send it to you and your family and I will be glad to provide.
Colin
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Did you get that?
Colin
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Hi Colin
Thanks for your attempt to reply to my questions.
I was faced with the same problem of the word limit when I made my post. All I did was split it in half and turn it into the two posts that I actually listed - there seems to be no problem with sending two posts one after the other.
Beany7143
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Hello Beany and Colin,
Yes there is a maximum word allowance of words per reply/post. If your reply is a long one just break it up as you have done ;)
RootsChat is a safe place to exchange information without having to worry about giving away any confidential details that you do not wish too.
Stay safe !
Regards
Sarah
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Thanks Sarah and thanks Beany ;-)
Beany, did you get my two half-messages #38 and 39 - second one went first! Sorry ;-)
Any questions?
Colin
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Hi Colin
I did read both of your posts.
I have sent you a personal message with my email address.
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...... . Arthur Watts sailed as crew to NZ on HMS Fawn in 1860. INCORRECT : Fawn sailed 12/11/1859 when he was rated a Boy 1st. Class aged 17
HMS Fawn sailed from ............ three and a half years. She mostly sailed in NZ waters. You can follow her voyages around NZ from ............ reports in Papers Past from NZ National Library. The library also has a painting ............ If he deserted in Australia - INCORRET ASSUMPTION - NB It had been recorded that on 1 Nov 1860 his Naval service started, ie he was 18 on or about 1st November ergo d ofB on or about 1st Nov 1841 (Baptism record at St P & St Paul Church Felixstowe. - he was on board ship on 1st Feb 1861 for his promotion to OS C.S. 2nd Class, He had been on board for the Census day 6 Apr 1861 - HE DESERTED 21 JUNE 1861 when HMSS Fawn left Auckland it was noted that he had drawn extra pay in advance.
Colin
, he must have come to NZ in another ship - I haven't found it. Also he ............ to have encouraged desertion. During its time in NZ waters, Fawn gained a reputation as a "flogging ............ incentive to desert during the Fawn's time in NZ came from June 1861 onwards with the discovery of ............ entirely men) flocked to Dunedin from all over NZ and many from Australia to "try their luck" on ............ away. I haven't discovered if Arthur (now Henry Newson?) went to the goldfields as his brother Alfred ............ and her family there. But an older Henry Newson certainly showed considerable interest in gold ......
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Hi Colin
Thanks for your post.
1. Date of Arthur Watts desertion
It's good to have the actual date of his desertion 21 June 1861 in Auckland, rather than my speculation that he might have jumped ship in Australia. It solves a long-standing puzzle I have wondered about.
2,The voyage to New Zealand
I am puzzled by your statement "Fawn sailed 12/11/1859" (I assume you have used British rather than American practice, and this means 12 Nov 1859). It may be that this was the date that the Royal Navy commissioned the ship, but if had left for NZ then, it took an extraordinary time to reach New Plymouth on 23 July 1860 (about 253 days), even allowing for "touching at Madeira and Ascension", putting into the Cape, and the two weeks or so it spent at Sydney. Sources here say that Fawn sailed from Portsmouth on the 21st February 1860, hence my comment that Arthur sailed to NZ in 1860. Voyages were considered to start when the ship left the British port.
The usual length of a voyage Britain to NZ at this time by emigrant ships (non-stop) was about 100 days. Ship arrivals were eagerly awaited, overdue ships were a cause of concern: "HM screw sloop Fawn .....now 106 days from Portsmouth" (New Zealander 6 June 1860 p2) ;"There is no news at Sydney either of HMSS Fawn or the Niger" (Daily Southern Cross 26 June 1860 p2). Fawn arrived at Sydney on 1 July 1860, and left for NZ on 16 July. So for me, the voyage was entirely in 1860.
3.Identity of the Henry Newson drowned at sea on HMS Intrepid 1858.
Have you been able to confirm that the above Henry Newson was definitely the Henry Newson from Felixstowe Ferry?
Beany7143
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This seems like a very interesting story and one I'd really like to hear/read in full with the correct info if that would be at all possible.