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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Kathy Schlegel on Sunday 15 November 09 14:04 GMT (UK)
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Elizabeth Darlinghurst TRINDALL nee KNEE (b:30.12.1842 ~ 1902) was the mother of Amelia Emily GORRICK KNEE (b:27.4.1859 ~ 1934) but who was the father?
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Hi Kathy,
Having looked up the birth online in NSW I see the father is not listed. Do you have any idea who the father might be ?
She married James M. JOWITT 1884 in Tamworth.
I can't find her death in 1934. Where did she die ?
Regards
Alison
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https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/MarIndexQrySubmit.m
Indicates Amelia went to QLD and married 1901 to James Anderson WORMALD.
Leanne
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http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx
Has a digitised war service record for a Thomas Norton JOWITT with mother Emilie WORMALD.
Leanne
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Hi ,
Looks like Elizabeth was busy.
Elizabeth D KNEE m William Buckingham TRINDALL 1862 Wee Waa
They had 8 Children
Elizabeth D TRINDALL m James E HALL 1886 Narrabri
Possible 3 children
Regards
Alison
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there are 3 entries for the name William Buckingham TRINDALL on:
http://austcemindex.com/
but I don't think Elizabeth Darlinghurst married HALL unless she is buried under TRINDALL ???.
http://austcemindex.com/inscription.php?id=4833128
Leanne
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Thanks for your help everyone. No, I don't know who the father was though there are several hypotheses including an uncle who was said to have come out from England yet is also said to have died when he was 2 years old. Just for the record, Elizabeth Darlinghurst Knee did marry William Buckingham TRINDALL after Amelia Emily GORRICK KNEE was born and they did have a large family. Amelia GORRICK KNEE married Thomas Norton JOWITT IN 1884 and subsequently moved to Queensland. After his death in 1900 she married James Anderson WORMALD in 1901.
Still hoping someone can help me track down Amelia's father.
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Bit More,
1919 Queensland Electoral Roll, Division of Oxley, Sub-Division of Wynnum
Wormald, Emily*, Kiosk, Jane St MANLY, home duties
Wormald, James Anderson, Kiosk, Jane St Manly, (no occupation listed for him)
*Edit to modify spelling to read EMILIE, sorry...
Cheers,
JM
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And,
1925 Queensland Electoral Roll,
Wormald, Emilie, Kiosk, Jane St Manly, home duties but NO ONE else of that surname at that address.
Cheers, JM
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Thanks JM Still looking for Amelia Emilie's Dad though
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Yes,
He seems an elusive chap... I was hoping to find possibility in names of the grandchildren perhaps...
Cheers,
JM
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Hi I came across your posts and I thought this information might be useful to you. I found it at www.jewitt.net/documents/Genealogy_JasonJowitt.pdf It states that Amelia's father was Albert Gorrick a solicitor.
Kathleen.
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Hi I came across your posts and I thought this information might be useful to you. I found it at www.jewitt.net/documents/Genealogy_JasonJowitt.pdf It states that Amelia's father was Albert Gorrick a solicitor.
Kathleen.
Would it be sensible to seek any "Albert Gorrick" death registration perhaps ... ;)
There's this possibility in NSW BDM online... Albert Gorrick, son of Abraham and Mary A... Albert's death in 1928 registered in Sydney , reference 10619/1928. Of course there's other states/colonies ..... and that pdf is like a 'submitted' record... but its a possibility
Cheers,
JM
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Hi
I once knew someone who was related to this line,From memory I think you need to get Elizabeth's will I have a idea it said who Amelia' s real name was .Maybe Tierney?? its such a long time ago now.
Regards Annie
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The plot thickens :) ;D
( I worked on the other thread re this Family)
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Umm...
What other thread ::)
;D ;D ;D
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Here we go ;D
Nothing relating directly to what has been found today.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,419498.msg2850335.html#msg2850335
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Hi there everyone,
There's a Walter KNEE in 1870 at Abbott Street West Maitland.... on the electoral roll....
I'll have a look for any others with that surname...
JM
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Bit More,
There's a Daniel KNEE at Northumberland St Morpeth on 1870 roll...
JM
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Bit More,
Again 1870... there's a Jacob Gorrick at East Maitland - Swan Reach...
and there's Andrew Tierney at No. 1 Lane, Morpeth....
(I don't have a keyword searchable option, have to read each page, sorry these are all over the place...)
Hope this helps somewhat....
JM
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Hi my name's Kathleen and I think I can clarify the Tierney connection. My Great Great Grandmother was Violet Emily Maude Tiernry Knee and she was born in 1879 in Maitland to Amelia Emily Gorrick Knee and Patrick Tierney. I don't know if the were married but Amelia later went on to marry Thomas Jowitt to the best of my knowledge.
Kathleen.
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Thanks for that Kathleen.
Welcome to Rootschat :)
So Violet dropped the Knee to marry Edward Mellon obviously.
Did Patrick Tierney marry later ?. There are 3 possibilities for this.
Trish :)
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Hi Kathy. Violet Tierney Knee is my great-grandmother. I have found my family, with the help of a special friend, and have traced the Mellons back to 1766, in England. Have lots of info and certificates to back it all up. Have a great day. I hope this makes you happy.
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Hi kateness,
Welcome to Rootschat.
Kathy is one lucky Woman to have you and Kathleen pop up like this.
Hopefully she will reply when she gets notification of your posting.
Trish :)
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Hi kateness,
I would also really like to hear about the information you have about the Mellon family if you don't mind sharing. Thanks kathleen.
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Hi Kathleen. I am more than happy to share but have lots of info so maybe you could contact me privately. I don't know how to do that just yet so lets see what happens.
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Trish. Thanks for the welcome. I am looking forward to helping her out.
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Bit More,
I've just been reading about one of my OH's forebears from Maitland district, and noticed the names of several members of the NSW Parliament from that era... One was surnamed GORRICK... and his middle name was Albert...
Joseph Albert GORRICK, a solicitor who was a member of the NSW Legislative Assembly as the member for Wollombi from 12 Dec 1882 to 7 October 1885. There's details available for him at http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au including: He was Son of Jacob Gorrick, farmer, and Elizabeth Maskie. Married Cecilia Catherine Hillcoat in 1868 at Maitland and had issue, 3 daughters and 4 sons. Church of England.
Bit More, Again 1870... there's a Jacob Gorrick at East Maitland - Swan Reach... ..............JM
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Hi Kathy. Violet Tierney Knee is my great-grandmother. I have found my family, with the help of a special friend, and have traced the Mellons back to 1766, in England. Have lots of info and certificates to back it all up. Have a great day. I hope this makes you happy.
Hi to both Kateness and Kathleen
My Great Great Grandmother was also Violet Emily Maud Tierney and i am looking into the family history myself. My grandfather is the son of Kathleen Mellon - daughter of Violet & Edward. If you have any information that could help i would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you :)
Alicia
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Hi to Katness and Alica.
It's taken me a while to check this forum again but am glad I have as the info re Patrick and Kathleen Teirney will now give me some new leads as I had almost given up on trying to establish Amelia Gorrick Knee's paternity. Thank you all for your help on this search and would love any info re the Mellon Teirney connection anybody has.
Kathy
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Re Partick Tierney being Violet's father, have searched but cannot find any info that is vaguely relevant because he did not marry Amelia. There are several Patrick Tierneys but I have no way of knowing which is correct as I have no details re birth & death. Despite the Jason Jowitt pdf file I cannot find any definite info regarding the existence of Albert Joseph Gorrick, although there definitely was a Joseph Albert Gorrick, a solicitor, who married Celia Catherine Hillcoat. Amelia Emily Gorrick Knee was my great grandmother who married (1) Thomas Norton Jowitt and (2) James Anderson Wormald. I am a descendant of that Jowitt line, so I do have a connection with Violet and would dearly love to know which Patrick Tierney is her father. Can anybody help please with some dates?
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Hi all,
I have PM'd Kathy on this my OH's great, great grandmother is Elizabeth Darlinghurst Knee Snr. I live in the Wee Waa/Narrabri area if anyone wants help this end.
Elizabeth D Trindall nee Knee (lol) married James Hall, they built and ran the Cuttabri Wine Shanty. It closed last year having had only 4 owners in that time and the 2nd wine License ever issued in NSW.
100's of Trindall/Knee descendants still live in the area. Yell if anyone wants help.
Cheers
Freckle
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Hi Freckle,
Have PM'd you a private message. Yes oh yes I need help on two counts : Amelia's father and Violet's father - both were illegitimate. Violet has "Teirney" as a christian name on her birth certificate - if this suggests the father's name where can I find out more about him? There's a suggestion above that his name was Patrick Tierney but with no other info (eg birth/death dates) it's difficult to establish exactly which of the many Patrick Tierneys I have come across it was.
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Hi Kathy,
most of Elizabeths history prior to coming to Wee Waa is a bit vague to me but, I will ask some of the descendants up here if they know anything. This does run into my OH's direct so we might be lucky. My FIL is a fountain of knowledge but doesn't like genealogy, I'll have to get him on a good day. Elizabeth is his great grandmother.
I did an interview a few months back with a local magazine, I will ask the reporter if she can help re a follow up story.
Cheers
Freckle
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Posted this on the other thread (apologies for the double up):
Hi Kathy,
Elizabeth Graham (1893-1972) is one of the three legitimate daughters of Amelia Emilie and Thomas N. Jowitt. Her daughter Elva Dade wrote a book titled "And the women should not weep" which offers insight into 5 generations of family history. Elizabeth Graham is the sister of Alfred N. Jowitt. My mother shares Amelia Emilie as her Great Grandmother through her Father, Alfred Jowitt Jnr. The book intimates that George Nee (Uncle of Elizabeth Knee) was the Father of Amelia Emilie. At some point he changed his alias to his Great Grandfather's name "Joseph Albert Gorrick". Ultimately, he was buried under his alias' name.
Amelia Emile had Violet in 1879 to P.C. Gorrick(?) Unsure of his full name however the book suggests that Violet was reared by Elizabeth and William Trindall and Violet took on the Trindall name to protect her real Fathers profession as he could be struck off the legal register.
Only just started reading the book so will post again soon.
Regards,
Jason
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Hi - I was wondering if anyone could help me with my researching of the Mantle/Knee/Gorrick/Tierney families. My main concern seems to be much the same as others - finding the names of the fathers for Amelia Emilie Gorrick Knee and her daughter Violet Emily Maude Tierney Knee. The name "Tierney" has got me so confused. I have found the name of Patrick Tierney on Ancestry and Google sites, but no verification or any sources to confirm him as the father of Violet. She has the name "Tierney" as one of her christian names and then on her marriage regn. it is listed as her surname.
I have read the book by Elva Dade and I did not find any mention of the name "Tierney" and of course the "Gorrick" name also confusing.
If anyone could help with documentation to find the fathers names of these two persons, I would appreciate their assistance.
Many many thanks
Barbara - Perth
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See also other thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=699692.0;
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Hi All,
Can I add my two cents worth to this thread and suggest that AnneCaroline suggested way back in 2009 that the way to establish the father of Amelia Emilie Gorrick Knee was through the will of Elizabeth Darlinghurst whoever. Do any of the descendants happen to have a copy of that will?
Barb I tried to send you a Private Message but I think you have to have a certain amount of messages before that is possible.
Andcarred
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Hello ...i can answer this for you .....Elizabeth Knee is my maternal Great Great Great Grandmother ...I have the original oil painting of her which hung in the Trindall Family properties in central New South Wales....This page of photographs is an extract from the book "And the Women Shall Not Weep" .
In short , Elizabeth Knee had a daughter , also named Elizabeth [Darlinghurst] , and she is Emilie's mother
Before Elizabeth Darlinghurst married William Buckingham Trindall , Elizabeth Darlinghurst had an illegitimate child - a daughter named Emilie ....and the father was George Knee , alias Albert Gorrick
you can read about it in this book ..
https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/1304837
...I shall upload attachments that will further explain the family tree
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Elizabeth Darlinghurst was my great great great Grandmother ... she had an illegitimate child , Emilie with George Knee , alias Albert Gorrick when she was 16 ....she later married my great great great grandfather William Buckingham Trindall here in Australia
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This is page 99 of And the women should not weep : a family history of five generations in Australia 1828-1934 / by Elva Dade
https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/1304837
it explains Emilie being the illegimate child of Elizabeth Darlinghurst & George Knee , alias Albert Gorrick ......and the connection to William Allen , the Jowitts , etc
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Very interesting -the tree and the article.
I can imagine the scandal when Emilie's background was discovered! Quite a large age gap for Emilie and Thomas.
Judith
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Ah yes, that Old Chestnut of class systems and perceived propriety must have really shook the Jowett Families image...marrying into a Convict lineage.....But women were a scarcity in colonial Australia....English norms appear to have always married young brides to old men ...perhaps the two factors somewhat explains why there was a considerable age gap between Thomas Jowett & Emilie....?
then.....After Thomas passed Emilie met and married her 2nd husband James Wormald. They established the famous Manly Kiosk on the largest yacht harbour in the Southern Hemisphere - which is now the Royal Queensland Yacht Squadrons Headquarter
However the colonial scandal continued for Emilie's mother Elizabeth ...when two of Emilie's half siblings [from her mothers marriage to her step father William Trindall] chose to marry Kamilaroi women - of aboriginal descent.
Though both those Kamilaroi women were very beautiful and faithful wives who bore many children , including my Grandmother, the colonial mindset caste them out....it wasn't until the 1967 referendum in Australia that aboriginal people were liberated to being legally classified as humans and not just flora and fauna...
Today, in Australia some of those "half -caste" descendants are successful and revered professionals, academics and artisans, not to mention agriculturists and scientists ....Nation Builders
you can read about some of them and the Trindall's in the book "Just Lovely"
https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/2848077
An astonishing legacy from the humble convict beginnings of Daniel Knee and his wife Elizabeth Wicks ...and I often ponder this when looking at the oil painting I have of Elizabeth
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Once again, interesting differences in family 'dynasties' as I see quite a few of Emilie/Thomas's children's weddings written up in the social pages, mainly in the Brisbane area. Poor Emilie seemed to have a hard time getting info and belongings back re the son who died in France.
I note, also that Thomas' family were Quakers. I think the information says that he came to Australia from the Cape and wondered where he was before that.
Gosh - genealogy turns us into stickybeaks! ::) ::)
Judith