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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Kathy Schlegel on Sunday 15 November 09 13:23 GMT (UK)
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Violet Emily Maud TIERNEY(b:3.1.1879) married Edward MELLON (drover) on17.12.1894 at the residence of Mrs Emilie JOWITT (her mother), Briglow Creek NSW. Does anyone know what happened to them after that?
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Hi Kathy :)
Well they had these children. Births are only on-line up to 1908 so there could be more born after 1908.
CECIL J, 1895
ILEENE E V, 1897
CONSTANCE A, 1898
EDWARD A, 1900
KATHLEEN M, 1902
HENRY W B, 1905
IVAN R, 1907
All reg Narrabri except Ileene at Boggabri.
It appears Violet remarried in 1920;
Violet E M MELLON
John H T THOMPSON
Reg, 4407/1920
West Maitland
Possible death for Edward between birth of last child and remarriage of Violet.
Death;
Edward MELLON, 1909, Collarenebri
Reg. no. 1128/1909
All info on;
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm
Possible death;
Violet Emily M THOMPSON
1947 Newtown
Mothers name, AMELIA
Cheers,
Trish
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Could Emilie be Amelia?
Are you sure Violet was a Tierney?
Was she born in Australia?
The only Violet Emily birth I can find in 1879 with Mother named Amelia ( Amelia E G) is a KNEE.
Amelia E G KNEE married James N JOWITT 1884, Tamworth
Reg. 7127/1884
Birth;
Violet Emily M T KNEE, reg.16366/1879, Maitland, Mother Amelia E G KNEE
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Looks like Amelia could have been illegitimate too;
Amelia KNEE
1859, Maitland, Mother Elizabeth
Reg. 9000/1859
Elizabeth D KNEE married William B TRINDALL, 1862, Wee Waa
Sorry if this is confusing or upsetting but I am pretty sure this is all correct.
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Many thanks for your help Trish. Tried the link but it told me "no matches" However your info has filled in many gaps. Interestingly I have a copy of a birth certificate showing that Violet's surname was recorded as Tierney, though Amelia Emily GORRICK KNEE (yes, she was also illegitimate) is shown as the mother.Don't know where the "TIERNEY" surname comes in, but it is also on the record of her marriage to Edward MELLON, with Amelia once again shown as the mother. Still can't discover who Violet's father was.
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You are welcome :)
Just try searching with surname only and rough date eg for Amelias birth;
Knee 1840-1870
It is one of those sites that sometimes you have to search wide and go back and narrow it down
Trish :)
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It looks to me that Amelia was trying to hint at Violets Fathers Name.
There are only 39 births for the surname Knee on BMDs
If you just serach, Knee, 1788-1900 there is a possible birth for Elizabeth 1843, parents Daniel and Mary
Trish :)
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Hello Kathy
Sorry I can’t tell you much about the destiny of Violet but I’ve been expending my family tree for 6 years, most recently on ‘Ancestry.com’ and think I can fill in some gaps for you.
Much of this information is confirmed and some is assumption but I feel I’m pretty right on most counts.
There is talk of the Knee family at Scone adopting Chinese orphans but their names differ and they’re most likely linked to another branch of the Knees and not Charles senior and Elizabeth. Anyway, here goes.....
It seems Violet was the illegitimate daughter of Amelia G Knee born in 1879 at Maitland NSW Australia. Amelia and Emily Knee’s birth records are the same year and adjacent on the NSW Births register.
Amelia’s mother is shown as Elizabeth, district Maitland. The Elizabeth is ‘Elizabeth Clifford’ an adopted girl from England (aka Baker).
Amelia’s father was my great, great, grandfather, Charles Knee (Nuii) a Mongolian (not Chinese) Ostler at ‘Sydenham Estate’ near Falkirk in NSW where he met Elizabeth. These two came from England and might have emigrated with their employers from the UK.
Maitland was the district Hospital at the time hence the birth records.
Emily’s birth record is incomplete, I suspect for one of the following reasons.
1. Emily was a twin who died at birth or,
2. The most likely explanation is that the names were recorded incorrectly then corrected in the next entry. This could have been an accident of old Grandfather Charles Knee’s Mongolian accent and his attempt to say Amelia might have sounded like Emily at the birth registration. Remember he was the family Patriarch and the only male present at the time and Emily’s record was incomplete.
NB: My Norwegian ancestor Jorgen Emil became George Emily in Australia because of his accent :)
3. Although unlikely, I like to think that Emily could have in fact, been my great grandmother Ellen Louise Knee and she and Amelia were twins. Ellen was also the son of Charles Knee and also born in 1859 but no record of her birth exists.
4. Ellen might have been adopted. I have heard this practice was not uncommon at the time as the Europeans rarely took in orphaned Asian or Chinese children.
I've attached pictures of Ellen younger and older and would be interested in comparing the likeness if you also had pictures of Amelia. That would finally settle the ‘Twin Theory’ I guess.
Ellen stayed on at ‘Sydenham Estate’ (perhaps she was in love) and soon married New Zealand shearer Alfred Schaufler.
When Violet was born in 1879 Amelia and Ellen were both 19 or 20 and single. Their parents, Charles Knee and Elizabeth Clifford (Baker) then moved to Scone and she decided to go with them, possibly for the babies’ sake. Perhaps Ellen stayed because she was adopted and not their own child.
After Schaufler left, it’s believed Ellen still worked as a servant at ‘Sydenham’ making meals for the diggers in the goldfields and farm hands and drovers where she met my great grandfather Jorgen (George) Emil Leth, a runaway seaman from Norway. They moved to Sydney, raised 9 children, 3 of Schaufler’s and 6 of their own including my grandfather Henry John Leth. Ellen and George married in 1897 after their 4th child and her 7th. I assume the divorce from Schaufler had been finalised.
However.... Back to Violet and Amelia.
The unmarried Amelia and her daughter Violet went with Charles and Elizabeth to ‘Cuan Cuan’ or ‘Cuen Cuen’ Station near Bunnan about 20 miles west of Scone.
go to Google Maps, type ‘Bunnan NSW Australia’ you'll see Cuan Creek is actually the town boundary about 8ks to the east. Follow the creek north on the map from the bridge for about 10 kms and you can see a large collection of farm buildings. This is probably the Station. Click on ‘street view’ while on the Bunnan Rd for a view of the countryside
The ‘Cuan Cuan Creek’ or ‘Guan Gua’ was probably named by the local aboriginals after the ‘Gang Gang’ or Black Cockatoo.
Amelia’s parents never married but lived a life-long relationship giving birth to 6 more children between 1862 and 1873, Elizabeth, Sarah, Mary William, Maria and Charles. I believe it is quite likely that these were Amelia and Ellen’s full brothers and sisters as no other father is shown on any records and the children were all officially born as Knee with the same mother Elizabeth. Only my ancestor Ellen is the mystery with no birth records.
In 1884 aged 25 accompanied by 6 year old Violet, Amelia m'd James N Jowitt drover from Scone, probably ‘Cuen Cuen Station’. Between 1885 and 1894 they all moved to Narrabri where Violet and James (Records show he used the name Thomas N Jowitt) had 7 children. So Violet lived with her mother and step-father and her half-brothers and sisters; Cecil J N, Alfred, Eleanor M, Grace E, Walter H, Elizabeth N and Thomas N
In 1894 at the age of only 15, Violet married Edward Mellon a drover from Narrabri and between 1895 and 1907 they also had 7 children. The first, Cecil was obviously named after her now 10 year old half-brother.
Finally .. and I think you'll get a laugh from this. Violet had several names including; Violet Emily Maud T Knee. The ‘T Knee’ might have easily sounded like ‘Tierney’ to the registrar at the wedding. :)
Best wishes
Peter Campbell
Cygnet, Tasmania Australia
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Some additional Info re: Amelia Gorrick and Violet .. T ier Knee .. The idea of a hint to the fathers name was a good one. Seasonal farm hands, shearers, drovers, gold prospectors, illegal immigrants and the like were rife. Inflation was affecting many European nations in the 1850s and 1860s and stories of Gold strikes in Australia and America abounded. Young men got work as seamen where they could then jumped ship first chance they got (my great great grandfather included)
At least 8 Gorrick men died in the Maitland area between 1859 and 1899 and another 12 died before 1925 in Sydney and the Southern Highlands of NSW i.e. Picton, Camden areas. No marriages were recorded between the names Gorrick and Knee in NSW
Society prevented these men known as 'WOG's (Western Oriental Gentlemen) from wooing the daughters of British settlers and landholders but the shy, retiring, servile daughters of Chinese and Asian immigrants were considered fair game. I feel fortunate Ellen and Jorgen found each other and shared such a long and happy life together.
Pete
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Hi,
There is an Edward Mellon, 49, buried at the Wee Waa Cemetery.
Accidently killed 3rd March 1910.
http://austcemindex.com/inscription.php?id=7816206
Regards
Gerry
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Edward Mellon born 1859, Native Place N.C. was tried on 1st April 1881 at Tamworth for horse stealing and served 12 months hard labour at the Tamworth Gaol.
Gerry
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Hi Pete,
All I can say is WOW and what an amazing story this all is.
And what a Beautiful Woman Ellen was.
I have glad at least I managed to put together a little of this before you came along and filled it all out.
All the best,
Trish :)
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HOLD THE PRESS !!! Some new information has come to light.
It seems there were 2 Elizabeth's giving birth to Knee children in this part of the world at about the same time.
Amelia E Gorrick Knee was born to the unmarried Elizabeth D (Darlinghurst) Knee and her father was Albert Gorrick. This explains the middle names. It might also lead to the idea that Elizabeth D Knee was Charles Knee's cousin or more likely, his sister and they travelled together.
So it appears that around 1861 or 1862 Charles and Elizabeth Clifford (Baker) left 'Sydenham Estate' Falbrook near Maitland and went to Scone accompanied by his sister (Elizabeth D Knee) and 2 or 3 yo Amelia. I'm assuming now that Charles' daughter, my G G Grandmother Ellen Louise Knee, the same age as Amelia, must have accompanied them also and not stayed at "Sydenham Estate" Falbrook. The girls were cousins.
In 1862 Charles and Elizabeth started having more children at Cuan Cuan Station, Scone while Elizabeth D Knee is living at Narrabri (near Wee Waa) where she marries William Trindall and starts a family. Amelia must have stayed with her mum. She eventually gives birth to Violet T Knee unmarried in 1879 at Maitland but then marries Thomas (James) N Jowitt in Tamworth in 1884 and they start their large family back in Narrabri in 1865.
Violet Maud T Knee (not Tierney) was born in 1879 at Maitland not Narrabri or Scone. A simple explanation would be that Narrabri and Scone didn't have electricity until 1920 so didn't have hospitals. While most births occurred in the home with a midwife present, if there were complications Maitland was the closest Hospital over 220 miles away.
The only Albert Gorrick on record is a Joseph Albert Gorrick (father Jacob mother Elizabeth) who married Cecilia Hillcoat at Maitland in 1868. I wonder if this family know they could have a half sister in Amelia and a long line of cousins living across the country. Second note of interest is that a Mr Isaac Gorrick served on the Board at Maitland Hospital, probably Albert's Uncle.
As there are no birth records for the older Knees, Elizabeth D or Charles or Ellen herself, it might seem the young Ellen came to Australia as a migrant with the rest of the family. There are several Knees in that part of NSW (The name was most likely Nuii or Nui. It was originally written as it sounded .. 'Nee' but that would have been too confusing for marriage records .. Amelia Jowitt (nee Nee) :) so the 'K' was added and it became Knee.
So the puzzle is falling into place with the discovery of Albert Gorrick's name on Amelia's birth record and the revelation that Elizabeth D Knee and Elizabeth Clifford followed similar paths but now I have to go back to the drawing boards with my G G Grandparents Ellen and George Leth.
My search now will be to find any trace of Leth in Scone, Wee Waa, Narrabri or surrounding areas. It seems he might have been droving or shearing when he met Ellen or perhaps there were gold diggings in northern NSW as well. Maybe the story of Ellen and the diggers took place in Scone not Falbrook. If I can find a Leth record anywhere it will pin point Ellen's whereabouts at the time.
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Oh dear!!! Where has all this latest information come from? I have a copy of the Birth Transcription from the NSW Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages (requested by Jocelyn Bakewell on 17 February 2003) which shows that Elizabeth Knee aged 17 gave birth on 27 April 1859 to an illegitimate daughter, Amelia. The fathers's name is "not listed". I also have a copy of the record of the baptism of Emily Amelia, daughter of Elizabeth Knee, born on 27 April and baptised on 26 June 1859. I also have a copy of a Birth Transcription which shows that Amelia Emily Gorrick Knee gave birth to an illegitimate daughter, Violet Emily Maude Tierney, on 3 January 1879 at Rutherford, West Maitland. Again, the father is "not listed". Other documents show that Elizabeth Darlinghurst Knee subsequently married William Buckingham Trindall in 1862 and that Amelia Emily married Thomas Norton Jowitt in 1884. The mystery is: who were the fathers of these two illegitimate girls? It is very doubtful that Amelia's father could have been an Albert Gorrick or Joseph Albert Gorrick.
Furthermore there is a record of Elizabeth's baptism which was performed on 22 January 1843 and which shows her birth as being 30 December 1842, parents Daniel Knee and Mary Ann Knee although Daniel and Many Ann (Mantle)were not married until 27 February 1843.
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Hi Kathy,
Elizabeth Graham (1893-1972) is one of the three legitimate daughters of Amelia Emilie and Thomas N. Jowitt. Her daughter Elva Dade wrote a book titled "And the women should not weep" which offers insight into 5 generations of family history. Elizabeth Graham is the sister of Alfred N. Jowitt. My mother shares Amelia Emilie as her Great Grandmother through her Father, Alfred Jnr Jowitt. The book intimates that George Nee (Uncle of Elizabeth Knee) was the Father of Amelia Emilie. At some point he changed his alias to his Great Grandfather's name "Joseph Albert Gorrick". Ultimately, he was buried under his alias' name.
Amelia Emile had Violet in 1879 to P.C. Gorrick(?) Unsure of his full name however the book suggests that Violet was reared by Elizabeth and William Trindall and Violet took on the Trindall name to protect her real Fathers profession as he could be struck off the legal register.
Only just started reading the book so will post again soon.
Regards,
Jason