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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: RebeccaNZ on Sunday 15 November 09 07:16 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am really stuck trying to trace my great grandmother Maud Alice Francis born around 1899 in Hackney.
Her father was an immigrant from the czech republic. My grandfather told me that he changed his last name from Busec or Bosec to Francis. His first name was Charles.
I cannot find any record of Charles or Maud in 1901 census - or any trace of Charles Francis in any census.
This is the only information I have about Maud other than that she married Herbert Henry Anderson in 1921 in Hackney.
Any advice or information would be really appreciated.
Rebecca :)
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What information is on the marriage certificate?
Address?
Age?
Father's name and occupation?
Names of witnesses?
Do you know her mother's name?
Have you looked in the 1911 census?
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The only Maud Alice Francis I can find is one registered 1889 in Poplar, have you the correct birth year,
Louisa Maud
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What information is on the marriage certificate?
Address?
Age?
Father's name and occupation?
Names of witnesses?
Do you know her mother's name?
Have you looked in the 1911 census?
Hi,
No I am only subscribed to ancestry and as far as I know they don't 1911 English census.
Her father's name was Charles, he was an engineer. She also had a brother called Charles. I don't have her mothers name.
Someone else in my family has the marriage cert.
There is a Maud Francis born Sept 1899 in Hackney but I'm not sure if this is her or not because I discovered in the London births and baptisms that this particular Maud Francis was born to parents Henry and Daisy Francis. The other possibility was that she born in 1902 in Hendon.
I am trying to find her father Charles in the census too - I thought the fact that he was born czech republic would make him easier to find.
Rebecca
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I don't have a sub to the 1911 census but a quick search reveals that there is a Charles Francis listed in St Giles, engineer, born Germany circa 1852 (age 59), with a Maud in the household. But it seems that Maud was aged 36. We need someone to take a look at that.
Czechoslovakia/Czech Republic did not exist in those days. The Czech lands were part of Austria-Hungary, and often referred to in the census as Bohemia.
I also found a Charles Bush in the 1901 census for East Ham, age 38, engineer born Bohemia, but there is no daughter listed. He had a wife Ellen and two sons Robert and Alfred.
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I have sent you a PM
Louisa Maud
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Hi, It looks like Maud had 6 children in Hackney between 1922-1936.
She gives her maiden name as Francis.
Jennifer
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This has to be a possibility:
Births 1Q1897
Franz Maud Alice Hackney 1b 547
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Maud Alice Franz born 20 December 1896
Marie Gertrude Franz born 31st 1894 (no month given !)
Parents Carl & Gertrude Franz - he is a hair dresser
Both baptised St Paul's Homerton, Hackney 1899 1 June 1899
Residence 77 Rushmore Road
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In 1901 Carl Franz has become Edward Francis:
Edward Francis 36 Hair Dresser Austria British Subject
Gertrude wife 28 Marlesford Suffolk
Mossy 6 Clapton
Maudy 4 do
May 2 do
77 Rushmore Road
RG13/218/91/34
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Marriage;
Charles BUSCH
December 1897
Stepney 1c 741
On same page Ellen WILLIAMS
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There is a Maud Franz b 1897 in the 1911 census for Hackney, with others in the household named Charles, May and Gertrude. Anyone got a sub?
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1911
Rushmere Road Clapton
Carl Franz 47 hairdresser born Prague married 17 years 5 children
Gertrude 37 born Suffolk
Marie 16
Maud 14
May 11
Charles 9
Gertrude 2
all siblings born Clapton
Louisa Maud
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you wrote
"Someone else in my family has the marriage cert".
Rebecca, please ask your relative for a copy of the cert, it might solve the problem
Louisa Maud
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That looks like it could be them doesn't it !
- Maud born Clapton (Hackney) 1896
- Baptised Maud Alice
- Father Carl from Prague - but not an engineer
- a brother Charles
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There is also a Maud Alice FRANKIS birth Sept 1904, St George East.
I still think Charles BUSH, Engineer, with wife Ellen ShaunJ found earlier is a more likely contender. Maud could have been born just after 1901 Census.
We could go around in circles. Marriage Cert is a must have as Louisa Maud said.
Trish :)
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I think we are going round in circles as we each have come up with various suggestions, I just hope something positive comes out of it
LM
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Me too :)
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Time will tell, it is a game of wait and see now
LM
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Thanks everyone for your help :)
I will get into contact with my extended family member who has the marriage cert. If I can't get into contact with them then I will order it from gro. It will help to give more details ... If I can verify the occupation then Carl Franz looks like a possibility.
The Charles Busch might be a likely candidate as his original surname was either Bosec or Busec and Busch is kind of similar in spelling. The name Carl could also be easily changed to Charles to sound more English - so it could be either.
Charles Francis definately lived till at least 1930's as he was still alive when my grandfather was young. Which reminds me - I could order his death cert too for more info.
My grandad (Maud's son) is still alive and said that Charles married and Irish woman but that is handed down family history. Maud did have 6 children and the family later moved to Cumbria.
That looks like it could be them doesn't it !
- Maud born Clapton (Hackney) 1896
- Baptised Maud Alice
- Father Carl from Prague - but not an engineer
- a brother Charles
Rebecca :)
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I found a marriage on ancestry.com for a Charles Fredrick Boseck to Anna Parsch in Edmonton 1877.
It states underneath the address that they or one of them are from Haida, Bohemia
It might be a bit before his time but the name and place matches. I've looked for these two 1881 census but can't seem to find them yet.
Rebecca
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Hi Rebbeca, Have a note off my uncle that says ' Maud Alice Francis born 20/12/1897 (Hackney London) Father:- Charles Bosec born 1861 Bohemia or Moravia. Changed name to Francis when he came to England between 1880-1890.
I need to get round to speaking to him to find out if he knows more, let me know if you want me get more and pass it on? :)
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Hi Rebbeca, Have a note off my uncle that says ' Maud Alice Francis born 20/12/1897 (Hackney London) Father:- Charles Bosec born 1861 Bohemia or Moravia. Changed name to Francis when he came to England between 1880-1890.
I need to get round to speaking to him to find out if he knows more, let me know if you want me get more and pass it on? :)
Hi Shaun!
That is awesome information than you so much for sharing! We must be related?
I would love any info you have and will send you a PM
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Actually your inbox is full ShaunOst but would really love to hear back from you!
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Hi RebeccaNZ,
ShaunOst's reply was in 2011 and they haven't been on Rootschat since then.
Also there email may not be the same since then and he wouldnt know you have replied.
The reason that you cant PM him is that he only made 1 posting so it has not been activated.
Birth Reg GRO Index for Maud 1897;
FRANZ, MAUD ALICE, Mothers mn BUTT***
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 547
Date of birth 20/12/1897 doesnt match up though ???
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Hi RebeccaNZ,
ShaunOst's reply was in 2011 and they haven't been on Rootschat since then.
Also there email may not be the same since then and he wouldnt know you have replied.
The reason that you cant PM him is that he only made 1 posting so it has not been activated.
Birth Reg GRO Index for Maud 1897;
FRANZ, MAUD ALICE, Mothers mn BUTT***
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 547
Date of birth 20/12/1897 doesnt match up though ???
Birthdate was in fact 20/12/1896 per baptism register - see reply #8.
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Thanks to you both! Hopefully ShaunOst checks back in this thread at some stage!
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Oops, thanks, missed that avm228.
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Rebecca,
I have a photo of Maud and Herbert if you are interested.
John
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Hi, yes I'd love to see it. I will private message you
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I stumbled on this site by pure chance and this is my second posting. I have received your private message, but it appears I have to have sent 3 public messages before I am allowed to use the private messaging system. One more to go.
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Post number 3. I'll try to contact you via PM.