RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: suzy55 on Friday 13 November 09 17:01 GMT (UK)
-
This is probably a silly question but I'm going to ask it anyway! If I can't find a record of a relative's death on ScotlandsPeople do I just assume she didn't die in Scotland?
I've tried various name combinations and dates but none of the names which come up is the one I'm looking for. Are all the records for Scottish deaths on the web site ? The one I'm looking for occurred in 1907.
-
Hi Suzy,
As far as I know all Scottish deaths should be there, especially in1907. I also know that the site is VERY particular about spelling! Will only accept what they have. I believe you can tick variations box for surname if you wish, but will come up with more responses than you can deal with!
Perhaps your death occurred in England.
Good luck with search
Ogleway
-
Thanks Ogleway for the speedy response. Margaret was originally from N. Ireland so perhaps she died there. Her husband remarried in 1907 in Glasgow so I thought Scotland was a better bet!
-
Oh dear,
If its Ireland, good luck!
I have never been luck enough to crack the Irish connection.
But then, all my family are elusive :) :)
-
Hi Suzy
What was Margaret's surname (maiden/married) and approx. birth year? We can all try and find the birth on SP! Have you not found them on the 1901 census to help you narrow down when they are likely to come over to Scotland?
Official registration began in Scotland from 1855 so all BMDs should show on SP unless the entry has been mis-indexed (very rare though).
Monica
-
Hi MonicaLesl,
Thanks for the offer of help! This is what I know. Margaret Patterson (born 1877in N.Ireland) married Samuel Murray in 1901 in N.I. They went to Glasgow in 1901 and had a child ,Frederick, in 1903. They were living in Blackburn Street at the time. Margaret registered her son's birth on 7th September 1903. Her husband married again in Sept.1907(I have the marriage certificate which says he's a widower). So Margaret must have died between those two dates. A daughter from the second marriage wrote on the back of a photograph that Margaret had died in 1907 but I haven't found the correct record from any of the years 1903 to 1907. I would appreciate a new pair of eyes taking a look since I might have overlooked something in my search. Margaret's mother's maiden name was Coyle, if that might help.
-
Fresh eyes are not helping :'( There is nothing showing for Margaret's death is there. I'm searching with the maximum of wildcards and nothing shows for her. The only Margaret Paterson/Murray death within her age range is some time after 1907.
The 1911 census will help (when it is finally released ::)) to confirm any more children born up to 1907 and their birth places.
Monica
-
Hi MonicaLesl,
Thank you for double - checking the death records for me. Looks like I'll have to do a search in N.Ireland after all. Hope you can do that without an exact date!
-
The only reason that you may not find a death certificate in the normal place GROS etc. is I think if the person was in an institution, prison or some such. Someone with more experience would know about these.
marcie
-
Regardless of where a person died, the death would have to be reported in the normal manner and would show on Scotlands People :)
Susy, there is a new(ish!) site http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=1408347;p=2;t=searchable to let you search for BMDs post the start of official registration in Ireland. Why don't you ask for help on the General Ireland board?
Monica
-
hi Monica,
I think I might do that! I'll take a look on the site you suggested first and see if that throws up any new information. Margarets death has to be recorded somewhere! Thanks again for your help.
-
Hi Monica,
Can I ask, what happens with regards murdered victims, whom possibly cannot be recognised. Do the records get treated in the same manner.? I know they are treated differently (corpses) possibly buried as Jane/John Doe and numbered? Do they still go into the local graveyard or do the police in Scotland have a separate area for these people.
My uncle went missing years ago now, moved back to scotland never to be seen again. Tried Salvation Army and my gr uncle jimmy went to the police to try and identify a corpse but could not be certain so we never claimed him.
marcie
-
Sorry, Marcie - no idea what happens in these types of cases and how deaths are reported when bodies have not been formally identified :-\ I would imagine that there would be formal records of deaths where identities had not been established - as to who keeps and maintains these, I do not know.
Monica
-
Thanks for replying anyway.
My nan had just lost my grandad, and my grandads brother was doing the search for him. I actually think they did find him, but for the sake of my nan they did not say. I do not think that she could have taken it.
This year my mum told me that the police had found a headless corpse, which my grt uncle tried to identify. it had two scars one on either archiles heel where he went through a glass door, and his blood group is one of those which is rare. So I think that he is dead.
marcie
-
Monica,
From Crown Office Notes of November 1998:
The Procurator Fiscal has a right and a duty to control the disposal of a dead body while he makes enquiries into the death. Depending upon the circumstances he may decide to leave the body where the death occurred, eg at home or in a hospital. He may decide to have the body removed to a police or hospital mortuary or a specially designated mortuary. He will require to decide in every case whether he will accept a medical certificate as to the cause of death and release the body, or whether an autopsy is necessary. When releasing a body the Procurator Fiscal requires to decide whether cremation may be allowed to take place. There may be circumstances, for example a homicide investigation where the Procurator Fiscal cannot allow cremation to take place as it would lead to the destruction of evidence available from the body. If the Procurator Fiscal has no objections in principle to a cremation, the matter then becomes one for the Medical Referee to decide.
In every case in which (a) there is a possibility that the death was caused or contributed to by the commission of a criminal act, or (b) there is a possibility of criminal proceedings in which it will be necessary to prove the fact and cause of death, an autopsy must be carried out by two pathologists.
End of quote
I suggest that a search of the Sheriff Court records might find details of the investigation or Fatal Accident Enquiry.
-
Thank you Murray - that was very informative :)
Monica
-
Thank you Murray,
I did not think that I would get any answers to this in all honesty. He has been gone for over 23 yrs. If he was still alive, he has missed the death of his father about 22 yrs ago, and more recently 15yrs now his own mother. He never went that long without contacting her.
So after the hols... I will try the Sherriffs office or maybe ask my cousin Allan if he could do this for me.
Alec was his 2nd cousin after all, he may come up with something that I may otherwise miss.
marcie
I think he was buried as a John Doe. But I do not know where in Edinburgh.
-
Search completed. Record found in N.I.
-
That is great you found what you were looking for :)
Monica