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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cumberland => England => Cumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: irishistory on Thursday 12 November 09 21:44 GMT (UK)
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Hello,i'm hoping somebody can help me with this.I am looking for the wedding of john bates 1841 and hannah1839.i have them on the 1871 census for rickergate carlisle,with there eldest daughter being born 1863.rachael.
I have tried ancestry and freebmd but no luck.also where would i get there marriage cert in carlisle from if i did find it? some times i despair of myself,tonight i feel all searched out.!! regards irishistory
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Register Office http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/registration/wheretofindus/carlisle.asp
They were married with 2 kids in 1861 (wife Ann*). Both kids died Q1 1862 :'(
so
Marriages Mar 1858
BATES John Carlisle 10b 472
SHERLOCK Ann Carlisle 10b 472
*One child's baptism (Robert 1858) is in the IGI with mother "Hannah"
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Hi
They're at Queen St in 1861. By that stage there are a few options for the marriage. You might on this occasion have to get the marriage certificate, but like Goeffe says, if you give the extra details, if you have the wrong index, and you use the address he's given you, you should have the fee returned.
Good luck!
Emms
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John BATES was with his parents in 1851 - aged 13, born Ireland.
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Register Office http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/registration/wheretofindus/carlisle.asp
They were married with 2 kids in 1861 (wife Ann*). Both kids died Q1 1862 :'(
so
Marriages Mar 1858
BATES John Carlisle 10b 472
SHERLOCK Ann Carlisle 10b 472
*One child's baptism (Robert 1858) is in the IGI with mother "Hannah"
hello geoff,this is amazing.Yes, i found robert williams in the IGI but was not sure if it was my John,as i had no record of Robert.i also found another son (who i do know)Alexander 1869 St Marys on the IGI.I have them in 1871 in rickergate wife is hannah,1881 in caldewgate wife is hannah,1891 stockport wife is hannah.So why Ann on the marriage cert?wonder if there is another family of Bates because i almost got sidetracked once with an irish Bates in Carlisle.in all the censuses John is down as born in cumberland.could do with finding census for them in 1861and then working backwards.Thank you also to emmsthheight.was the 1861 info from the census?Thanks again you guys
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So why Ann on the marriage cert?
To our ancestors, many of whom were illiterate, the dropping (or adding) of the odd h here and there was not something they worried about. So Anna (or Ann) = Hannah, no problem. There was a Hannah SHERLOCK in Carlisle aged 12 in the 1851 census.
Looking at the ages of the BATES family in 1851, there was one son after John born in Ireland, then another born in Cumberland, so John was small when he came to England. Of course, the 1871 census shows his parents were certainly Irish.
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hi guys,i'm back with a little more info.John Bates wife was called Hannah.apparently they lived near Carrs water biscuits factory.In trinity buildings,i think some of them still standing,so i still need to find there wedding cert to find Hannah's maiden name.So let me thank you both for your help and maybe you can help me again.
regards irishistory
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Hi
Thank you for telling us the extra information. Do you know that Trinity Buildings are actually attached to Trinity Church? The old one which stood opposite Carrs has now gone, but there's a more modern church across the road and round the corner, actually closer to Trinity Church.
I wondered if the marriage was there, but your date is just too early. I think it is a marriage certificate.
Let us know how you get on.
Best wishes
Emms
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Hi to everyone and Dee (not sure what your user name is) I also have interests in the Bates, Sherlock and Whittle family of Carlisle. I do have a copy of the birth certificate of Alexander Bates born Nov 1869 to John Bates and Hannah, nee Sherlock. According to my research Alexander was the 4th and last of their children unless someone has better information.
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According to my research Alexander was the 4th and last of their children unless someone has better information.
Hi ldevaney, welcome to Rootschat :)
If you read the thread again, you'll find that I suggested there were two earlier sons who were around in the 1861 census (Robert W 2, James 6m) but died early in 1862. :'(
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Hi Idlevaney
Welcome to Rootschat!
You'll get loads of help here. I have!
Also, once you have three messages posted you can use the personal messaging system to contact members directly without having to publish your email address.
If you reply to this and have one more post you might both be able to exchange information directly.
By the way, I think like Goeffe said, the marriage certificate would be a real boon.
Enjoy Rootschat!
Emms :)
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Also, once you have three messages posted you can use the personal messaging system to contact members directly ....
That is a constantly recurring myth - two posts is quite enough :)
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Ah, right! ???
I'd heard three and a couiple of times People had problems after two so I assumed it was right.
Maybe we just didn't leave long enough after the second for it to go through? Anyway, if it'll be useful, try it!
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Thanks for the encouragement. I read the earlier posts and unless I missed something the issue of this Bates line going back to Ireland was not resolved or was it? My own view for what it is worth is that it would be a huge coincidence if two unrelated Bates families were sharing a Youngs Ln property in the 1871 census. Therefore my assumption is that the two John Bates are father and son. Or does someone have information that resolves this issue?
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I see in 1861, the elder John BATES had sons
Thomas 18 Ireland
Alexander 14 Carlisle
and in 1851 they included
John 13 Ireland
Thomas 9 Ireland
Alexander 4 Carlisle
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Hi all
Just a few more clues for you. I am tracing the line for Thomas Bates b.1843 Ireland who had brothers John, Alexander and sister Eleanor. I sent for Alexander's birth cert and parents are listed as John Bates, Labourer and Ann Bates (nee Gilchrist) both born Ireland - Alexander was born 17.1.1847 at Old Whippery Lane, Rickergate.
Not sure now how to find the marriage or Thomas's birth in Ireland as no idea which part of the country they came from - any suggestions?
I also have marriage certificate for Thomas Bates to Mary Thompson 4.10.1873. Thomas was a widower at this time so on a previous thread the name of Mary Henderson came up, so its likely this was Thomas's first wife. Witnesses T. Hutton and Margaret McCollins (possibly Mary's sister?)
Mary and Thomas lived at Milbourne Street, Carlisle.
Mary Thompson's father was James Thompson (farmer) deceased at the time of the wedding.
BluBelle
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Hi
All I know about this is it's a long hawl when your relatives came over at this stae. Looking at everything, even if you don't think it will be any use!
I have struck lucky though, in couple of places.
Have you got all the census entries for every member of the family you can find? Occasionally someone gives them away. I'm gradually getting back to Louth via Dublin! Even look at people with the some name and family names in the area. If you come across any skills, in our case, all things leather and horse, follow those.
I've been luck with a friend's. If you find any early RC register entries, =- mid 19C - some of them have a different table, and give the home in Ireland of the parents and even the odd witness or godparent. If you have any entries from the GRO for this perid, you might be able to get the entry for the church from the library in the Lanes or the Record Office in Carlisle Castle.
Just a few ideas.
Best wishes
Emms
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Hi Emms
Thanks for the advice, I know this part is going to be a lot tougher. Yes got most of the census info I can find.
Did a general search on Gilchrist and there seem to be a lot in Scotland, so wonder if they came over from Ireland or whether it was the other way at some point.
I'll keep digging and see what comes up.
Bluebelle ::)
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Hi Blubelle
Yes, my immediate reaction when I saw Gilchrist was Scotland at some stage.
Some of my Irish relatives came in through Scotland. I've got them on odd English censuses, and they must have passed very close to us in Cumbria, but I'm having a job to pin them down, even though I'm on the spot. I'll keep an eye open for yours as well. Bates and Gilchrist aren't so bad, but Thompson's quite a common name.
Have you tried Scotland's people? You have to pay for credits, but you can narrow things down if you keep changing your search criteria, even down to the exact parish.
Good luck!
Emms
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Hi Blubelle,are we researching the same Bates family just different brothers??My Bates were John and Ann Bates about 1806 birth from Ireland.In 1851 living Castle Street,1861 Young's Lane.I did recognise some family names,my Bates moved to Stockport round about 1891ish.
regards irishistory :)
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Hi Irishhistory
Sorry this reply is a bit belated to say the least but only just seen your post as been taking a break from family history so trying to get my head around it again.
Yes there is a definite connection as my Bates family are also in Stockport. The story goes that the family walked from Carlisle to Stockport to find work and they can be found in Stockport in the 1891 census.
John b.1841 and family at Keen St, Portwood and Thomas b.1843 and his children Mary Ann b1877 Thomas b1878 at Hempshaw Lane which was about as close to the hatting factories as you could get.
Parents of John and Thomas were John Bates b1806/8 Ireland and Ann Gilchrist b1806/8 Ireland, with Alexander b1847 and Eleanor b1849 siblings, but that's about as far as I've got.
Happy hunting
Blubelle
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Hi Blubelle,
I have just sent you a pm message.
:D regards irishistory.