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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: trudym on Thursday 12 November 09 08:51 GMT (UK)
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Could someone please help, we have hit a wall. Our Janet Milligan is the daughter of William Milligan and Isobel Hornell. She is born about 1812 and marries our Thomas Meredith born supposedly from family records held by us as 1810. They are married sometime in 1840 as Thomas is born 22 Aug 1841 in Kirkcudbright. with successive hurricanes over the years we no longer have photos and documents on which we can look back to get minute detail. Also we can not trace Janet and Thomas after they are married in 1840 in the 1851,1861 1871 census. I know that Thomas, husband of Janet dies in 1875 at the age of 65 because on my grandfathers marriage certificate and affidavit is stated that Thomas died , when 2nd youngest son marries for the second time.
Can anyone shed a light on this mystery . Our grandfathers (James, brother of thomas) birth certificate states that he was born in Everton in 1857 and at that time they lived in Tarlton Street, West Derby. We also know that Thomas was a shoemaker by trade and there is a special story connected to saving a kings sons from drowning. They also used to live in Pembroke Street when isabella was born,
Any help would be greatly appreciated
This information is all from our own records
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Hi Trudy
This looks to be Janet's birth entry on IGI, actual extract from the Old Parish Registers (you should be able to find this entry and image on the register on Scotlands People):
JANET MILLIGAN Birth: 09 SEP 1813 Kirkcudbright, Kirkcudbright
Parents: WILLIAM MILLIGAN and ISOBELLA HORNEL
Potential siblings include:
1. AGNES MILLIGAN Birth: 20 NOV 1815 Kirkcudbright, Kirkcudbright
2. MARGARET MILLIGAN Christening: 08 AUG 1820 Kirkcudbright, Kirkcudbright
3. SARAH MILLIGAN Birth: 14 APR 1826 Kirkcudbright, Kirkcudbright
These entries are also actual extract from the Registers. There is also a submitted entry for a William born 26 MAR 1823 .
Monica
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This looks to be information about sister Sarah on another forum:
http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.britisles.scotland.kkd.general/848/mb.ashx?pnt=1
Monica
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This looks to be Janet Milligan/Meridith staying at her father's for the 1851 census:
William Milligan 60, Shoemaker & House Proprietor, b. Kirkcudbright
Sarah Milligan 23, daughter, b. Kirkcudbright
Janet Meredith 36, visitor, b. Kirkcudbright
Thomas Meredith 9, grandson b. Kirkcudbright
Isabella Meredith 7, visitor b. Swerford, England
William Meredith 5 visitor, b. Liverpool
John Meredith 3, visitor b. Liverpool
Address: High Street, Kirkcudbright
Would make sense to look at the original for this entry on Scotlands People to verify entry.
Daughter Isabella's likely christening entry on IGI:
ISABELLA MEREDITH Christening:31 JUL 1843 Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire
Parents: THOMAS MEREDITH and JANET
Monica
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This looks to be Janet's family in 1841:
Isabella Milligan 55, Wife Of William Milligan Shoe M
Sarah Milligan 13
Address: High Street, Kirkcudbright
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This looks to be Janet and Thomas in the 1841 census in Liverpool:
Thomas Merideth 31, shoemaker b. England
Janet Merideth 25, b. Scotland
James Davies 30, shoemaker b. Scotland
Willm Horrell (Hornell?) 20, shoemaker b. Scotland....could he be related to Janet's mother's family?
Jonathan Clarkson 25, labourer b. In the county
Jane Jones 25, b. England
The 1841 census is the most limited in terms of information. Relationships within the household are not included and ages for everyone over 15 are rounded down to the nearest 5 years. Also, from this entry, you cannot tell where in England Thomas Merideth was born except he was not born in the county, ie. not Lancashire.
Monica
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why you are absolutely wonderfullllllllllll :) :) :) Thank you so very much. Its funny Thomas Meredith father of Thomas Meredith, husband of Jannet Milligan was a shoemaker, and his son was a school teacher. I see different women being the mothers of Williams children or there must be a lot of William Milligans in Kirkcudbright. I note the milligans are quite numberous in Lancashire and were there before the merediths. What strikes me as odd is why the first Mr Meredith goes to Scotland at all......family connections who knows, but we have added another piece of the puzzle. Thank you again.
Trudy
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Hi Trudy
Family are hard to find on later censuses! A search on here www.dgcommunity.net/historicalindexes/census.aspx for that 1851 census entry we do have for Janet, does show her as married, and wife of Shoemaker. Just search using her name, she's the only entry. So Thomas, husband was still alive at this time.
Monica
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Found Thomas husband in 1851 in Everton, Lancashire.
Thomas Meridith, 41, boot and shoe maker (master), married b. Claines, Westmorland, England
HO107; Piece: 2189; Folio: 246; Page: 45;
So, Janet looks to visiting father with the children for that 1851 entry in Kircudbright.
Monica
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oh well Ive just re read one of the replies, william hornell could be the nephew of Isobell hornell as she married William Milligan
father of Janet. Now that is what I thought when I started. Another piece of the puzzle. You kind souls dont realise just how much help this has been. Of the Merediths that went south I am the only one out of the 1 or 2 thousand trying to piece the puzzle.
So that makes Jannets birth year more like 1816
My son is in London and is going to visit Kirkcudbright so he will enjoy this story. I see there is an artist in the family and that is Ernest A Hornel , an amazing scottish painter, such vibrancy in his colours.
The merediths in samoa have very very large families, to them children are blessings.
Would you also have the address of the street for the 1841 census, because depending on the date of the census thomas may or may not be born.
what do I do about the copyright gadget Im just new to this.
Also would you happen to know Williams occupation. pretty please. Im just overwhelmed.
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Janet's christening date is showing as 09 SEP 1813 in Kirkcudbright, so birth before that date. Her age in the 1841 census has been rounded down to the nearest 5 years as was the norm on the 1841 census. Census ages in general are only a guide as people were not precise generally when recording/remembering precise ages in that time.
Regarding an occupation for William, is this William Milligan, Janet's father?
Let me look for that 1841 census entry again in Liverpool and try and find the address (not always very clear to read). You have a birth date for son Thomas which would have been after the 1841 census date (June 6/7), so he would not show on the 1841 census entry with Thomas and Janet.
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The address for 1841 looks like Trowbridge Street in Liverpool.
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yes,
William Milligan is Jannets father thanks again
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If it is that William, then he shows in both 1841 (with his reference for wife Isabella) and his entry in 1851 as a shoemaker. The entries are above :)
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Sorry Trudy, just reread and saw you had put this in:
what do I do about the copyright gadget Im just new to this.
What's this regarding ???
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on the online parish clerk for lancashire I have Thomas and Janet staying at Pembroke on July 1843. According to all the talk in the two branches of the family, Thomas was not born in England and I do not find any entry anywhere for 22 August 1841. That date is on his birth certificate in Samoa.
They lived in district of Everton, in West Derby, and the last address was Tarlton Street when James my husbands grandfather is born.
That item about Thomas Jardine marrying Sarah Milligan is amazing, because of the the subscriber Forrest connection.
The Thomas Meredith born 1810 also has a brother John but John is born in Worcester, but I see you put Claines as being in Westmoreland. not Worcester. John has a daughter Frances or Fanny marries a Forrest and the son George is sent to New Jersey when her brother Samuel goes and they go to Passaic Paterson where Samuel is involved with Silk Industry and a factory as his wife is Maryanne Nightingale and hence the new jersey connections. That connection sent me on this journey but all I had was a name
John and a family tree for the son, nothing else. So with great help am filling the gaps. Im not registered with Ancestry.com so could someone post a message on there about this connection, thanks alot
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Trudy
I think the reference to Westmoreland on the 1851 for Thomas' birth place is in error. I found this on IGI:
THOMAS MEREDITH Christening: 19 APR 1810 Claines, Worcester
Parents:TIMOTHY MEREDITH and MARY
I think from your other post, regarding possible brother John, you do have a potential reference for a father Timothy www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,418215.0.html
Monica:
What is is that you are concerned about regarding copyright as mentioned in my last post?
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its just that thing down on the right hand sign about reporting to administrator. Why does the the national archives come up a lot. a lot of my information is my own it seems weird. Im new this is only my 2nd topic and a read something in how to use this that if I ddint put something about info from archives being copyright or I could be blocked from using. I hope Im doing the right thing.
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there is a problem with Timothy being the Father of John and Thomas and whoever else we have not yet discovered. Because we we thought there were only 3 in a family there were 4 others but two passed as infants. So Im expectng to find that John and Thomas have other siblings. Now it is really strange, Timothy must have done something really bad but not one descendant down to 5 generations even uses Timothy as a name of one of their children. John has 8 or nine, Thomas has 7, his thomas has 3 by first marriage and 13 by second marriage., our James
has several by first marriage, and one by second, If he has done that then that would be the excuse or timothy is not their father.
I found a Marriage of a Timothy in st swithuns, worcester for a Mary and two children John and Thomas. but I had the conception that Thomas was older. But I dont have a birthdate for him, just a guess. He is married in 1834 and Thomas in 1840 so he could be five years older so born about 1812 according to the 1851 british census if it is correct.
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You are doing fine on copyright Trudy, nothing to worry about :) If you are quoting information, as I am from censuses, then RC prefer you to include the disclaimer on the copyright issue for information you are posting on here.
I think the Thomas born in Claines is likely to be the right one. You have him in 1851, married with wife away in Scotland visiting, in the right area and occupation.
One way for you to verify is to look at the marriage of Thomas and Janet which will include father's name and occupation for both of them. This shows on freebmd on:
Marriages 4th Qrt 1840
MEREDITH Thomas Liverpool 20 285
Milligan Jannet Liverpool 20 285
There are other names on the entry but what makes me confident that this is the right entry is that there is a number of trees on Ancestry all quoting this marriage with a specific date:
25 October 1840 in Liverpool - Thomas Meredith, aged 30, father Timothy and Janet Millingan, age 24, father William.
You might want to verify this yourself by ordering the marriage extract but looks to fit well with the information that you have so far.
Monica
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Thomas is also quite precise on his ages for the 1841 and 1851 censuses (31 in 1841 and 41 in 1851) fitting well with that likely 1810 birth.
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Did Thomas and Janet have a last son Samuel? There is this possible entry for them in 1871 in Liverpool:
Thomas Meredith 61, lamp lighter b. Worcester, Worcestershire
Jennet Meredith 51, b. Scotland
Samuel Meredith 20, son, stone mason b. Liverpool
RG10; Piece: 3809; Folio: 71; Page: 38;
Janet's birth year has got progressively younger over the years ::)
There is this possible birth for Samuel:
Births 1st Qrt 1852
Meredith Samuel in West Derby 8b 337
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Hi Trudy
We are trying find relatives of Thomas Meredith( his parents were Janet Milligan and Thomas Meredith Snr,)
My husband is from Samoa and we believe that Thomas Meredith is his great,great grandfather,he married twice in Samoa,his first wife Maria Miller Coe and they had 3 children and then when she died he married Mele Poletu IIaou and they had 13 children and their daughter Lousia is my husbands great grandmother.Thomas we think was born in 1841in Scotland and his brother James in 1850 in liverpool.We think James married in Samoa also and had 10 children there.its all very interesting and we would love to hear more of what you know.
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Hi Yes thomas was born in 1841 and James in 1857. Thomas had two wives Maria Miller Coe, daughter of Jonas Coe and Leutu, and yes his second wife was his housekeeper That is correct. Send me your email on personal message and I will direct you to further information.
Kind regards
Trudy