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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: grantleydawn on Wednesday 11 November 09 08:33 GMT (UK)
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Researching in NZ is new to me and I need help to construct the family of William Henry Lyons ROE and Alice KING.
I know the ancestry of the above couple, but nothing of them, their children or grandchildren, except for what follows.
The husband was;
birth registered during 1842 in Western Australia as William Henry Lyons ROE
married as Henry Lyons ROE on 29th Nov 1864 in Gawler, South Australia
as William Henry Lyons ROE, in Oct 1880, he received 2 years hard labor in New Zealand, for “forging and uttering”. I think he resided in Kirwee.
as Henry Lyons ROE he was back in South Australia in June 1890 when he died and was buried in the Yatala Labour Prison.
The wife was;
recorded as Alice KING when she was born (Jun 1847) & married in South Australia
she appears as Alice Frere ROE, aged 73, died 1919 on the NZ BDM online search. (That is consistent with other family members with the name of “Freer”. (I have a photo of her)
The children;
1. Henry John King ROE, born 7 Sep 1865 Mallala, South Australia. As per NZ BDM online search he died in 1940 & he married Jessie HENTON in 1908.
2. Alice Martha Matilda ROE, born 15 Mar 1869 Kent Town, South Australia. I am guessing that she was the death registration per NZ BDM online search in 1899, aged 30, recorded as Alice ROE.
3. Frances Mary ROE, born 22 Jun 1871 Kent Town, South Australia.
4. Lucilla Sophia ROE, born 9 Jun 1873 in Tusmore, South Australia. As per NZ BDM online search she married as Lucille Sophia ROE to Francis Reynolds WRIGHT in 1897.
5. Edmund Richard Lyons ROE, born 22 Oct 1875 in Kensington, South Australia.
Any and all help will be appreciated.
Regards
Grantley
South Australia
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If you have a look at BDM on line you will see three children born to Lucille and Frank Wright
Wright Tom Reynolds 1899 Corrected name as had it wrong
Wright Nancy Isabel 1900
Wright Lucille Sybil 1904
Regards
Newbe
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Both Lucille and Frank are buried in Dunedin
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=90484&type=Burial
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=90362&type=Burial
Lucille died 1957 and Frank/Frances died 1955
you can find both on BDM site on-line
Note: there are other buried with them
Not sure if they are related or not yet
Newbe
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Thankyou Newbe,
I do appreciate your help.
regards
Grantley
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Lucille Sybil Wright married John Stanley Hunt 1924
Lucille died 1987 #41085 born 26 March 1904
From BDM on-line
John Stanley Hunt died 1978 #29987 born 1 November 1899
Newbe
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By the way welcome to the NZ board :D
Regards
Newbe
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Nancy Isabel Wright married John Sutherland Sinclair 1926
Nancy died 1989 #50963 born 5 July 1900
John died 1964 aged 81 years
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=90695&type=Burial
I do not see Nancy there so will keep looking
Newbe
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Once again, thankyou Newbe.
You are finding them quicker than I can absorb them, which is fantastic.
It was great to get an approx migration time of 1879 from the burial records.
Finding the burial and other details of mum Alice ROE (nee KING) would be a real bonus.
regards
Grantley
I must sign off for tonight.
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HI
Alice is buried at Invercargill St Johns Cemetery
NZSG code: T01.35
Location: Durham St, Waikiwi
Council: Invercargill
Province: Southland
Administration: Anglican
So if you can access the NZSG fiche or hard copies the code is: T01.35
There are BUrial records and Monumental inscriptions
Bye
Althea ;D
Just re read and see you are over the ditch..someone maybe able to access the details from the libraries here..as they come online
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A bit more info on Nancy
Date of death 24.09.1986
Where died: Queenstown
Typre of service: Private Service in Queenstown
Age : not recorded
SINCLAIR Nancy Isabel
wife of late John Sinclair
Headstone transcript - Queenstown Cemetery
Plan: Protestant Lawn Block 11 Plot 42
Stone: Sybil Jessie TYE 10 Sep 1927 - 15 Jan 1994 loved wife of Leslie
William TYE 1 Oct 1923 -
4 Jan 1989 Nancy Isobel SINCLAIR wife of John Sutherland Sinclair 5 Jul
1900-24 Sep 1986.
Site: Large black granite headstone with the inscription on the right hand
side.
Queenstown burial records
SINCLAIR Nancy Isabel
widow
Died Queenstown
Died on 24 Sep 1986
aged 86 years
Undertaker R G McGrouther Queenstown
Regards
Newbe
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If click on this link it will have details for Alice ROE burial
http://www.icc.govt.nz/icc/index.cfm?DE79F5A3-E45A-AE82-884A-FB49BA08132F&id=37454
From Invercargill Cemetery database
Regards
Newbe
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Have found a death for Henry John King ROE at Karori Cemetery in Wellington, NZ.
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/cemeteries/search/details.php?id=27091&Service=Burial
Link for Henry's burial above
Link for Jessie's burial below
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/cemeteries/search/details.php?id=49866&Service=Burial
Newbe
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This looks like Alice Martha Matilda Roe's marriage
Alice Martha Roe to Robert Story 1893 #1660
Looks like Alice and Robert are buried at St Johns Cemetery, Invercargill
http://www.icc.govt.nz/icc/index.cfm?DE79F5A3-E45A-AE82-884A-FB49BA08132F&id=41792
http://www.icc.govt.nz/icc/index.cfm?DE79F5A3-E45A-AE82-884A-FB49BA08132F&id=41795
Newbe :D
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Alice and Robert STORY had 7 children
Enid Mary 1894 #16118
Robert Douglas 1895 # 8456
Alice Lucilla 1897 #7725
Jack 1900 #10725
Hilda Noel 1902 #5005
Colin Rae 1903 #6186
Stuart Ruxton 1905 #14540
Cheers
Newbe
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http://www.icc.govt.nz/icc/index.cfm?DE79A9E4-9A5E-C9D8-AF8C-B3FAEEE2FAEE
Link for Jack Story and Hilda Noel Story's burial
Jack died 2 days old
Newbe
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More info
1882 #186 Frances Mary Roe to Edward Carlton Whitlock
Children:
Ivy Alice Whitlock 1891#13143
John Osgood Whitlock 1897#618
Death for Edward at Ormond Cemetery in Gisborne
http://www.gdc.govt.nz/cemetery-record-search/detail/4517?backLink=%2Fcemetery-record-search%2FForm%3FFirstName%3D%26LastName%3Dwhitlock%26action_find%3DSearch
Frances is buried at Waikumete Cemetery
http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/cnlser/cm/cemeterysearch/cemeterydetails.aspx?id=49882
John Osgood Whitlock is buried at Maunu Cemetery in Whangarei
http://www.wdc.govt.nz/customerservice/cemetery/?id=6340&type=b
Marriage for Ivy
1916 #6992 Ivy Alice Whitlock to Wilfred Badley
Burial record for Ivy
http://www.purewa.co.nz/details.asp?id=76193&type=Cremation
Burial record for Wilfred
http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/cnlser/cm/cemeterysearch/cemeterydetails.aspx?id=149466
Have crossed out what I put earlier today as I was too fast with info and did not check it out very well
Newbe
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Can find no marriage or death in NZ for Edmund Richard Lyons ROE
Regards
Newbe
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Wow,
I just popped home for lunch & saw all the info.
Thankyou very much Newbe & Althea.
Now, how am I going to concentrate at work this afternoon.
Regarding the marriage of Alice Martha ROE to Robert STORY. I obviously too hasterly eliminated that marriage.
The children names confirm that you have found the correct connection.
I shall have fun tonight.
Regards
Grantley
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Glad I could help with this one
if you need help or more info just ask away
Am off to work myself so will catch up later
newbe
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3. Frances Mary ROE, born 22 Jun 1871 Kent Town, South Australia.
1882 #186 Frances Mary Roe to Edward Carlton Whitlock
Mmm ... I don't think this can be the correct marriage. ???
Frances Mary born 1871 would only have been 11 years of age in 1882. ???
Lu
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Sadly, I think this is probably Frances Mary ?
NZ Death
1951 / 21758 - ROE - Frances Mary - 79 years - (bc 1872)
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Sorry, I don't have burial details, but there is a probate record held at Archives New Zealand (Auckland Office) which suggests Frances Mary was resident in Rotorua around the time of her death.
ROE - Frances Mary - Rotorua - Spinster - 1951
http://www.archives.govt.nz/
Lu
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Hi Grantley
Just adding this as a possibility for Edmund Richard Lyons ROE - born 1875. :-\
NSW DEATH
18210 / 1961
ROE - Richard Lyons - 82 years - Matraville - Reg'd. Sydney
Mmm ... age not quite right ... and unfortunately parents, not named.
Lu
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Hi again Grantley
Ah ha .... it seems he "dropped" the forename of Edmund and was known as Richard Lyons ROE.
He saw service with the Australian Army, enlisting in 1916, giving his age as "37 years" (bc 1879). ;)
Richard Lyons ROE
Born: SA
Next of Kin : Mrs Alice ROE (Mother)
206 ? Spey Street, Invercargill, New Zealand :
AND you can view the digital record on the "naa" website. :D
Lu
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Hi,
Not sure if this is the right person ....
In the Electoral Roll 1893, there is a Frances Mary Roe of Ashburton, lwho was living in Rakaia South and was a teacher.
Unfortunately there are no further details to chase up on this.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi Grantley,
From the SA police journals I note the NZ incarceration was not his first . Looking at this it would seem he entered NZ after June 1877 and returned prior to Jan 1888
26 May 1875
Henry Lyons ROE, arrested by Sergeant Sullivan, for forgery, at Adelaide - committed.
14 July 1875
ROE Henry Lyons, tried at the Supreme Court, for forgery - three years hard labor.
13 Jun 1877
Prisoners to be discharged from Yatala
Henry Lyons ROE, tried at Supreme Court on the 8th June, 1875, for forgery upon James C. Wilkinson, at Adelaide, three years' hard labor ; a native of Western Australia ; a stockholder ; born 1843; height, 5ft. 9 tin. ; complexion, fresh ; hair, brown ; eyes, hazel ; nose, long and pointed ; mouth, small ; chin round ; vaccine both arms ; scar on right knee. - Freedom due 13th June, 1877.
4 Jan 1888
Arthur J. COATES, age about 45, height about 5ft. 10in., fair complexion, dark-brown hair, whiskers, beard, and a prominent nose, for obtaining on the 24th ultimo, from W. & T. Rhodes, at Adelaide, goods to the value of £2, and £3 cash, in return for a valueless cheque for £5 on the Bank of South Australia.- (C.2457/87.)
NOTE.-There are other like charges against this man, who is believed identical with Henry Lyons ROE (see Police Gazette, 1877, page 95, " Prisoners Discharged.")
8 Jan 1890
Vide Police Gazette, 1888, page 2. Arthur J. COATES, alias Henry Lyons ROE, on warrant, for false pretences, and has been arrested by the Sydney Detective Police. (C.2457/87.)
Henry Lyons ROE, alias Arthur J. COATES, by the New South Wales Police, Sydney, for false pretences on W. & T. Rhodes, and forging and uttering to Fredk. Basle, Cawthorne & Co., and Elizabeth Mary Perryman, Adelaide - six months on first charge, committed on others.
Mar 12 1890
Prisoners tried at The Supreme Court
ROE Henry Lyons, forging and uttering - five years.
Jun 18 1890
Inquests
At Yatala Labor Prison, on the 16th instant, on the body of Henry Lyons ROE. Verdict - "Died from natural causes."
Cheers Kris :)
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I am absolutely blown away with everyone's help. Thankyou very much.
I had excluded Frances Mary ROE marrying Edward Carlton Whitlock. I confirmed that Frances Mary ROE definitely was born 22nd Jun 1871.
Regards
Grantley
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It appears that Edmund Richard Lyons ROE married Coral Beatrice ARTHUR in 1920 in Sydney as per NSW BD&M index;
Richard L ROE married Coral B ARTHUR
I am surprised what has been found and where it was found.
Thankyou seems such a small return on everyone's help, but it is a genuine thankyou.
Thankyou
Grantley
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Hi Grantley
Glad you found the reference to the possible marriage.
I'd been about to post it here when up popped that dreadful message ... ROOTSCHAT IS VERY BUSY AT THE MOMENT ... so I was promptly booted out of the action !
Grrr !
Incidentally, Frances Mary's date of death was 27 April, 1951.
Lu
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I do not know the final outcome, but William Henry Lyons ROE, alias Arthur J. COATES had trouble with the police in Victoria as well.
The Argus (Melbourne, Vic.) Saturday 29 September 1883, page 12
CHARGES OF WHOLESALE SWINDLING.
At the City Police Court on Friday, a gentlemanly-looking man named Arthur J. Coates was brought up on remand on five charges of having obtained goods from various persons in Melbourne by means of false pretences.
Sir Bryan O'Loghlen appeared for the prosecution, and Mr. Fisher the defence, and it was arranged that the evidence for the whole of the charges should be taken together as for one case.
Mr Call, P.M., who presided on the bench, said with regard to these cases it would be impossible for the evidence to be prepared in time for the cases to be tried at the next court of General Sessions, and therefore he had decided to send the cases for trial to the Central Criminal Court, to be held on the 15th prox. The prisoner would therefore be committed for trial to that court on the charge investigated the previous day of having obtained goods to the value of £40 15s. from Messrs. Briscoe and Co., iron merchants, &c.
The other charges against the prisoner were;
(1) For having obtained from Mr. D. Altson, saddle and harness maker, goods to the value of £52 17s 6d
(2) goods from Messrs. McEwan and Co., iron merchants to the value of £49 10s l0d
(3) goods from H. Young and Co., watchmakers and jewellers, to the value of £74
(4) plated goods to the value of £4 3s 6d., and
(5) woolpacks to the value of £14 3s. 4d from Messrs McEwan and Co.
The evidence taken in support of these charges was very similar to that given in the first case, and which was published in The Argus of Friday. The prisoner, it appears, in most of the cases first introduced himself to the firms by making a small purchase and paying for the goods by a cheque on the Union Bank at Sandhurst. In all cases he
represented himself as a squatter, and generally mentioned that he was fixing up a new place for his boys near Sandhurst. On the strength of the cash transaction he had very little difficulty in obtaining credit, and once having obtained an invoice of goods for a large amount duly receipted as settled by acceptance, he made use of that and the cash receipts to induce other persons to give him similar terms. All the bills were drawn at four months' date, and the prisoner, it seems, after selling large quantities of fencing wire, galvanised iron, and cement, shipped the other goods to New Zealand. The saddlery from Altson's was sent to Sandhurst, as directed, and the prisoner arranged with the officers at the Spencer-street railway station for the case and two packages to he brought back to Melbourne. A case and two packages of ironmongery from McEwan and Co.'s, also addressed to Sandhurst, he got possession of by delivering up the receipt notes. These goods he stored for a few days at Johnson's tree store in King-street, and then had them carted to Broadbent Bros.' and Co.'s yard, for transmission to New Zealand by the “s.s. Manapouri”. The goods were sent as directed, and they will be brought back to Melbourne, the agents at Lyttelton having been advised by telegraph of the state of the case.
The prisoner, who reserved his defence, was committed for trial on each charge at the next sittings of the Central Criminal Court, to be held at Melbourne on the 15th prox.
Regards
Grantley
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Hi,
Might be a bit late, but FWIW:
Alice and Robert STORY had 7 children
Enid Mary 1894 #16118
Robert Douglas 1895 # 8456
Alice Lucilla 1897 #7725
Jack 1900 #10725
Hilda Noel 1902 #5005
Colin Rae 1903 #6186
Stuart Ruxton 1905 #14540
Robert Story (1862-1918) was the eldest son of Robert Story (1830-1909) and Mary Ann Ruxton (1833-1877), from Edinburgh but his family originated from Jedburgh, Roxburghshire, Scotland. Robert, jnr (and according to family legend 2 younger brothers, probably Daniel and Herbert) left Scotland in the mid-1880s, Robert settling in NZ. He was farming at "Kinloch", Otautau before he purchased Venlaw Station, near Wyndham, Southland about 1905, where some of the the family still live.
Of the children:
Enid died unm. 1974 - lived at Venlaw Station all her adult life
Doug died unm. 1950
Lucille (Lulu) married John Tyndall Lockyer Williams, a doctor in Dunedin and had 2 daus (at least).
Nony (Noel) died unm 1999 . in Invercargill, having lived most of her life at Venlaw.
Colin Roe married Shelagh Mary Unknown, took over the farm, and had 2 sons, both of whom are still alive. They both married and have children and grandchildren.
Stuart, my grandfather, (d. 1986, Wanganui) married Alice Ruth Mason and had 1 son and 2 daughters (all surviving with children).
It was somehow imprinted on me when I was young that Gt-Grannie being "a Roe" was of great social significance. I knew nothing about her father until reading this post. Presumably no else did either! Sounds a right scoundrel (or should be larrikin). Thanks, all, for the information.
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Welcome to Rootschat,
I have sent you a personal message with my email address, so that we can fill in some pieces.
Regards
Grantley
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I have only now read this message and was very excited that someone was researching the Story family. My family line comes down from Robert Story b. 1803, the father of Robert Story b. 1830. I have old letters from the 1850s 60s written to Robert Story b. 1830 which also contain a lot of information on other members of the family. I would love to hear any more information you might have.
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Hi GKE,
I have sent you a personal message with my email address.
Regards
Grantley
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Thanks for getting back to me Grantley. I'll go check your message right away.
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I have been reading with interest about Robert and Alice Story that owned Venlaw Station. My g.great uncle William Young who immigrated from Scotland worked for them. He died about 1930 at age 89. He never married. I have a letter saying that Mrs. Story and her daughters took care of him as he was bed ridden for a while before he died. I would love to get in touch with any relative of Alice or her daughters and find out more information about William. His funeral was held at Venlaw Station, and he was buried in the village of Wyndham. I was just wondering about the possibly of finding his grave and maybe get a photo of it. I was also thinking there might be photo's of William somewhere.
Any information would be appreciated.
Margaret.
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Margaret I have sent you a private message.
GKE
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I would love to share any information that you may have regarding William Young, Thanks