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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: karens925 on Monday 09 November 09 20:26 GMT (UK)
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I have a Hannah Downes (married name Beard) born 1818 in Chester Chesterfield, living Manchester according to the census returns of 1861, I also have a baptism record of Hannah Downes born in Manchester, baptized in Taxal Cheshire 1818. Her parents had three children baptized at the same time and the Father lived in Manchester.
I am really hoping its the same lady. Two reasons
Her sister Keziah Downes married Parley Pratt a Mormon in Salt Lake ( 12th wife of 18th) and has a whole biography of her, some of Hannah and brother Samuel. Theres even letters still existing.
There is a long history of Downes in Taxal going back to Reginald Downes who had a Manor house and lots of land and entertained the King. ( My dads side is full of paupers ;) )
My Hannah moved to America in 1870.
How would I go about proving this link ? If I can!
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Hmmm, is she the Hannah with children Joseph, Charles, Amelia, George D, James and Alfred in Salford in the 1861 census? If so, her place of birth appears to be given as Chester, Cheshire (not Chesterfield) which is close to the Welsh border and not very close to Taxal which is just over the Cheshire border in Derbyshire. The family are pretty elusive on the 1851 census, have you found Hannah on any other censuses??
Ermy
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yes this is the Hannah, on the 1841 census she is recorded as Beaned ! It says on here she was born in Lancashire but on all other census even the American ones it says Chester
Oh :( I was hoping it was eureka moment as there was so much information and Id done so much research...sigh...... Ive kind of hit a wall with, Solomon and Hannah Beard.
Karen
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what i think you need to do to prove the link is to try to rule out the bapt you found as your Hannah,
are there any more Hannahs born circa same time?
are there any more Hannah Downes marriages that could be Hannah bp. in Taxal?
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If you can get access to parish records, including burials, (via ordering films at your local Mormon family history centre etc) you should be able to build up a picture of the various Downes (and variant spellings) families in the Taxal area to see whether there is a 'spare' Hannah who could be yours. Taxal would have come under Macclefield registeration district, these are the earliest entries for Ann/Hannah Downes (the names were often interchangable) entries from FreeBMD:
Marriages Mar 1840
DOWNES Ann Macclesfield 19 102
Deaths Mar 1841
DOWNES Ann Macclesfield 19 108
Deaths Sep 1841
DOWNS Ann Macclesfield 19 96
Deaths Jun 1843
DOWNES Nancy Macclesfield 19 108
Marriages Jun 1844
DOWNES Hannah Macclesfield 19 122
Ermy
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I have Hannah and Solomons marriage certificate ordered from Manchester Archives. They were married in 1835, so i know it wont have fathers names but might give clues as to birth and witnesses.
I did read something on Keziah's biography stating that Hannah was baptised into the morman church in 1842. But I dont know how to find this record and what surname it states. Her biography just gives Hannahs first name.
Hannah died in America, this is a definate as the whole family emigrated in the 1870's after her husbands death in 1859.
thankyou for your help :)
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Marriages Mar 1840
DOWNES Ann Macclesfield 19 102
Deaths Mar 1841
DOWNES Ann Macclesfield 19 108
Deaths Sep 1841
DOWNS Ann Macclesfield 19 96
Deaths Jun 1843
DOWNES Nancy Macclesfield 19 108
Marriages Jun 1844
DOWNES Hannah Macclesfield 19 122
Ermy
Cheshire BMD often ahs the ages at death and one of the 1841 Ann's is on there......dunno which one though :(
Cheshire Death indexes for 1841
DOWNES Ann age 57 East Macclesfield Cheshire East EMC/3/93
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk
AND this too...
Cheshire Death indexes for 1843
DOWNES Nancy age 63 Prestbury Cheshire East PRE/2/5
Carol
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The online Keziah bio categorically states, "Unfortunately her sister Hannah and family along with her mother never made it to the Salt Lake Valley. Seven years later, in 1861, Hannah and her family were included in the census record of Rainow, England. Elizabeth Braodhead Downes, her mother was living with them."
It seems to me that this should tell you a lot. Was this Hannah's surname Beard? Was she a widow? If not, she is not your person.
Hope I'm not overlooking anything obvious.
Also, where and when do you have Hannah on US census as you state? I couldn't find (with brief search) on 1880. When and where did she die. You state "noisy" details about when Hannah came to America (1870 and 1870s).
Nick
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sorry I wont be so 'noisy' !!!! Not th kind of comment I expect really!!!!
Hannah Beard travelled to America in 1871 with her son Joseph. I have hers, and the rest of the family nataurilization certificates. I have the documents on which she sailed to america. I have photos of them all in America. Is this too noisy for you ?
Yes she is a widow her Husband died in 1859, I have his death certificate.
It states she didnt make to Salt Lake Valley not America, my Hannah made it to Ohio.
I was just asking if all my research was all wrong, I didnt see the bit about her living with her mother. So this answers my original question, unless the biography you read is wrong, shes not the same Hannah.
Ill just go sit in a corner and be far less noisy for you !
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Please don't be offended Karen - I spent a fair amount of time looking for information to try and help you. The word noisy, at least in my profession, is meant to imply conflicting information, and nothing more - which is why I put it in quotes.
Nick
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Found this on 1861 census, living at Bollington, Cheshire:
James Flint 47 Joiner & Builder bn. East Millington, Cheshire
Hannah Flint 43 bn. Manchester, Lancashire
George E Flint 20 Wine & Spirit Merchant Traveller, bn. Manchester
Matilda Flint 14 Cotton Doubler bn. Manchester
Betsey Flint 11 Cotton Winder bn. Macclesfield, Cheshire
Sarah Flint 9 Cotton Winder bn. Macclesfield
John Flint 6 scholar bn. Macclesfield
Elizabeth Downes 74 mother in law, former landlady bn. RAINOW, Cheshire
This looks very like the marriage for James Flint - only one bride shown:
Marriages Jun 1838
DOWNES Hannah Chorlton 20 91
Flint James Chorlton 20 91
If this really is Kezia's sister, I'm afraid it looks as though that rules out your Hannah. James and Hannah and their three youngest children are in the same place in the 1871 census and by 1881 Hannah is widowed and just daughter Betsy is still at home with her in Bollington.
Ermy
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Hi Karen
Sorry to disappoint you, but the sister of Keziah Downes was Hannah Flint as found previously - I have Keziah in my extended family tree; her grandmothers sister was the first wife of my gt gt uncle Joseph Lowe. Kezia was christened Taxal 9 August 1812, the daughter of Edward and Betty Down(e)s of Kettleshulme - her parents were Edward Downes 1787 - 1831 and Elizabeth Broadhead 1787...
in 1841 Hannah Flint and family were living 7 Bark St ,Hulme, Manchester (HO107/583/17 F15 P22) and her mother Elizabeth Downs 50, was in household.
1851 census Hannah (mistranscribed Fluet) and family were at Great King Street, Macclesfield (HO107/2160 F246 P19). Not sure of Elizabeth Downes whereabouts yet on this census, but she may be visiting her unmarried son John Downes, farmer at Goyt Valley, Derbyshire. (HO107/251 F22 P1).
1861 census they are in Bollington, Cheshire as previously stated. (RG9/2576 F6 P2).
Sorry can't help with Solomon & Hannah Beard, not been able to find them on 1851 census.
Good luck and best wishes - Joan
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Found this on 1861 census, living at Bollington, Cheshire:
James Flint 47 Joiner & Builder bn. East Millington, Cheshire
Hannah Flint 43 bn. Manchester, Lancashire
George E Flint 20 Wine & Spirit Merchant Traveller, bn. Manchester
Matilda Flint 14 Cotton Doubler bn. Manchester
Betsey Flint 11 Cotton Winder bn. Macclesfield, Cheshire
Sarah Flint 9 Cotton Winder bn. Macclesfield
John Flint 6 scholar bn. Macclesfield
Elizabeth Downes 74 mother in law, former landlady bn. RAINOW, Cheshire
This looks very like the marriage for James Flint - only one bride shown:
Marriages Jun 1838
DOWNES Hannah Chorlton 20 91
Flint James Chorlton 20 91
If this really is Kezia's sister, I'm afraid it looks as though that rules out your Hannah. James and Hannah and their three youngest children are in the same place in the 1871 census and by 1881 Hannah is widowed and just daughter Betsy is still at home with her in Bollington.
Ermy
I am sure these also tie into my tree!
I have Flints born in Bollington, Ingersley Vale & Rainow, which is a small area.
My gt gransma was Planceana Mary Flint born in Rainow in 1875, her brother was John Alexander.
I dont have the tree on this computer but theri mother was Mary (mn Mcrea) and Father James Henry or Henry (I can check it tomorrow & see)
Gaille
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Hello karen925, the www.familysearch.org website has a section entitled, "Pedigree resource file" and in it, several persons related to a Hannah Downes have submitted information -- of course, it would need to be verified -- but it seems a good point of reference to begin checking. Firstly, I notice that this particular Hannah Downes was born 10 Dec 1817 in Manchester, Lancashire, England. Her parents were Edward Downes and Elizabeth Broadhead. But, perhaps, most tellingly, it states her date of death was 9 December 1893 - with no place of death listed! :o I note, also, that her pedigree chart indicates several ancestors were from Rainow and Taxal.....Also, these persons indicate that their Hannah Downes married 7 June 1838 in Manchester, Lancashire to James Flint.... Either way, I hope this helps you eliminate this Hannah from your family tree OR assists you in keeping her branch on your family tree. Pat
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I find it really sad that Karen hasn't been online since lunchtime on 12th November.I hope nothing has scared her off from using Rootschat.
It has worldwide coverage and therefore some expressions used on the boards may not be those that we are used to in our own country.
Come back Karen-some of the recent finds may be helpful to you ;)
Carol