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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: suec45 on Saturday 07 November 09 09:00 GMT (UK)

Title: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: suec45 on Saturday 07 November 09 09:00 GMT (UK)
Ive been looking for the death cert of Francis Cassidy died 20th July 1916

I have the record from casualties list on ancestry and wanted to check that it is the right Francis Cassidy but used all credits on SP and cant find cert
any help would be greatly appreciated

thanks in advanced

Sue 
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 07 November 09 11:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Sue

You won't find a death certificate for him on SP given he died in France. At most, perhaps, an entry in Minor Records, but these do not normally include more info than you have already.

Sometimes this site can include some personal details, but having checked, there is no more on Francis than you already have  www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1542683

Monica
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: suec45 on Saturday 07 November 09 17:42 GMT (UK)
thank you Monica (how silly of me of course in died in France ::) )

I cant find his war record either would that be because he died in service?


Sue
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: KirstyG on Saturday 07 November 09 18:01 GMT (UK)
His medal card is in the National Archives

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?queryType=1&resultcount=1&Edoc_Id=1886767

also in  "WO 339  War Office: Officers' Services, First World War, Long Number Papers (numerical)"
there is a record for F Cassidy. Don't know if it is Francis though.

Kirsty
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 07 November 09 18:04 GMT (UK)
Only about a third of WWI service records survive.
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: alan14578 on Sunday 08 November 09 21:00 GMT (UK)
Private Francis Cassidy 5580 Cameronioans(Scoittish Rifles) died 20-7-1916 and buried Thiepval Cemetery France
If you check the Commonwealth War Graves Commision CWGC website you can see the details and get a cert.
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 08 November 09 21:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Alan  :)

The link I gave earlier is for the Francis' entry on the CWGC site. There is no death cert to be got unfortunately from war deaths overseas for this period.

The attestment papers would be the best source to try and establish Francis' place and date of birth, perhaps also next of kin but again, those are proving to difficult to find.

Hopefully, somewhere his service papers may be found or another database where this info may have been recorded?

Monica
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: suec45 on Sunday 08 November 09 22:12 GMT (UK)
I would like to thank you for the links and the ideas I have just down loaded his medal records and he has 2 service numbers and looks like he was transfered to the REs & the tunnelers this would fit as he was a miner

I cant get the hang of the NA site could someone be kind enough to post a link to
the WO 399 page for me

thank you so much

Sue
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: KirstyG on Monday 09 November 09 00:04 GMT (UK)
Hi Sue

This is the reference I found, however you may have to go to Kew to search for individual entries ( or pay to have someone look for you)

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=6&CATID=1638833

Kirsty
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: suec45 on Monday 09 November 09 00:56 GMT (UK)
Thank you for that Kirsty
Looks like a trip trip kew on Tuesday for me

Sue

can i return the favor do you need any lookups from the NA
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: KirstyG on Monday 09 November 09 01:25 GMT (UK)
Thanks Sue, it's very kind of you to offer.

I'm not sure that there is anything I am after just now as most of my lines are in Scotland, thanks anyway.

Kirsty
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: LongfordHeritage on Wednesday 15 June 16 17:05 BST (UK)
Hello Sue,
I know this is years old, but I was hoping to make contact with you on Pte Francis Cassidy, who died at the Somme in July 1916. I am the Heritage Officer for Longford County Council here in Ireland, and one of the administrators of the Longford At War website, in which we hope to record all of the Longford soldiers and nurses who died and fought in the Great War and in the Easter Rising of 1916 (this will be expanded out in due course).
This year, to mark the centenary of the Battle of the Somme, we are reviewing the list of the Somme dead and remember them with a plaque at a location here in Longford town and an exhibition. One of these men is Pte Cassidy, and this is his current entry on our database http://longfordatwar.ie/soldiers/52 (http://longfordatwar.ie/soldiers/52).
We have very little verified information on him, as his army record was likely destroyed in WW2. Any assistance,  information and images you have on him would be gratefully received. Also, do you know if any of his other family members (born in Longford) served in the Great War? We would love to include them if so.
I would be greatly appreciative if you could get back to me soon, as we would like to ensure that the information is correct before going to print.
Kind regards
Mairead Ni Chonghaile. longfordatwar [at] longfordcoco [dot] ie
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: suec45 on Wednesday 15 June 16 18:50 BST (UK)
Thank you for getting In touch with me, you are the first Person from Ireland that I have had any contact with about the Cassidy's  I am very proud that you are Including my 2 x Great Uncle Francis Cassidy in your plaque
Unfortunately I do not have a great deal of information about Francis or his side of the family. I do know that there was 3 brothers Patrick born 1873  John born 1872 and Francis born 1875  to James Cassidy & Catherine Fury from County Longford Ireland   
Francis was brother to my Great Grandfather Patrick. The whole family moved to Kilsyth Stirling Scotland in the 1890s and they were all miners. Patrick was married in 1899 & Francis was a witness to the marriage. I know Francis moved to Glasgow but again not sure when. Patrick & John remained in Stirling. Patrick died in 1910 & John stayed on to help my G- Gran as he was not married at the time. Francis was in Glasgow with his family when the war came. I'm sorry to say that at some point there was a big split in the family & I'm afraid that is all I know but please know he is not forgotten and I'm very proud to share the name Cassidy with him

Would you please private message me and keep me informed
Thank You
Sue

 
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 15 June 16 20:31 BST (UK)
Hi Mairead and Sue

Welcome to RootsChat, Mairead  :)

Having a problem finding a marriage for Francis, son of James and Catherine (Fury), marrying a Catherine unfortunately. There are four marriages in Scotland between 1890 - 1916 for a Francis/Frank marrying a Catherine/kat*. None of them show as being the son of a James and Catherine. By co-incidence, they are all in Lanarkshire.

The marriages showing are:

1899 Francis Cassidy & Catherine Monaghan in Milton/Glasgow
Aged 22, a letterpress printer. Parents Thomas and Margaret (Hughes).
Born in Glasgow I think from the 1901 census.

1900 Francis Cassidy & Catherine McKay in Govan/Glasgow
Aged 24, a cab driver. Parents John and Bridget (Gibblin).
Born in Govan I think from the 1901 census.

1908 Francis Cassidy & Catherine Manderson in Govan/Glasgow
Aged 35, a colliery labourer. Parents James and Mary (Cullion?).

1910 Francis Cassidy & Kate McAleer in Holytown/Lanark
Aged 19, a shipyard labourer. Parents Patrick and Annie (Stafford).

None quite a perfect fit  :-\

Monica
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: isobelw on Wednesday 15 June 16 21:25 BST (UK)
The Register of Soldier's effects on Ancestry shows payments to widow Catherine. There is a payment in 1919 where she is described as Catherine Turpin. There is a marriage on Scotlandspeople on 3rd Oct 1817 between Samuel Turpin and Catherine Cassidy daughter of William Manderson and Catherine Manderson nee McInally. This matches with one of the marriages shown by MonicaL but this gives parents of Francis as James and Mary.
Isobel
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 15 June 16 21:30 BST (UK)
Thanks, Isobel. That helps further. That Francis was the best possible fit with his occupation and age. The 1911 census also gave his birth place as Ireland. It is the mother's name for him that throws it all out....

Monica
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: sancti on Wednesday 15 June 16 21:45 BST (UK)
Irish records for Longford have these births for children of James Cassidy and Catherine Fury

Michael   1859
Mary     1860
Ann     1861
James   1863
Bridget   1865
Peter       1866
Rose     1872
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: isobelw on Wednesday 15 June 16 21:49 BST (UK)
There is a birth for a Francis Cassidy mmn Colgan in Kilkeel in 1875. Might be a possibility.
Isobel



Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 15 June 16 21:59 BST (UK)

1899 Francis Cassidy & Catherine Monaghan in Milton/Glasgow
Aged 22, a letterpress printer. Parents Thomas and Margaret (Hughes).
Born in Glasgow I think from the 1901 census.

1900 Francis Cassidy & Catherine McKay in Govan/Glasgow
Aged 24, a cab driver. Parents John and Bridget (Gibblin).
Born in Govan I think from the 1901 census.

1908 Francis Cassidy & Catherine Manderson in Govan/Glasgow
Aged 35, a colliery labourer. Parents James and Mary (Cullion?).

1910 Francis Cassidy & Kate McAleer in Holytown/Lanark
Aged 19, a shipyard labourer. Parents Patrick and Annie (Stafford).




Apologies, got my couples mixed up and their details. Below are corrections:

1908 Francis Cassidy & Catherine Manderson in Govan/Glasgow
Aged 19, a shipyard labourer. Parents Patrick and Annie (Stafford).

1910 Francis Cassidy & Kate McAleer in Holytown/Lanark
Aged 35, a colliery labourer.  Parents Parents James and Mary (Cullion?).

It is the 1910 couple where the Francis is showing as born in Ireland and whose age/occupation looked a good fit.

Monica
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 15 June 16 22:09 BST (UK)
Irish records for Longford have these births for children of James Cassidy and Catherine Fury

Michael   1859
Mary     1860
Ann     1861
James   1863
Bridget   1865
Peter       1866
Rose     1872

Hi Sancti

The daughter Ann showing there, there are a number of trees showing for this Cassidy line. One of them here http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/18599116/person/20445863786/facts shows her brothers Frank and Peter living with her and family in the 1910 New York Census.

So I am puzzled for now, without more documents really...

Monica
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 15 June 16 22:12 BST (UK)
Ahhh, this helps a lot https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W1Z-FVV : 20 March 2015

I think we can exclude very likely Francis Cassidy, son of James and Catherine (Furey) from the WW1 casualties?

Monica

Added: 1920 census for Frank and wife Margaret https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MJBN-WGF
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: sancti on Wednesday 15 June 16 22:32 BST (UK)
Great find Monica

So the soldier who died was Francis Cassidy from Longford and his parents were Patrick Cassidy and Ann Stafford

Irish records have their marriage as

14-Apr-1880       
Parish / District:   LONGFORD
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 15 June 16 22:33 BST (UK)
So, Francis Cassidy son of Patrick and Ann Stafford looks to be the Francis who died in WW1/1916.

The reference to Longford certainly comes up for him too I think.

This is the family in Glasgow in 1891:

Patrick Cassidy 31 Furnace Stoker Tube Work b. Ireland
Ann Cassidy 32 b. Ireland
Robert Cassidy 9 b. Ireland
George Cassidy 6 b. Ireland
Francis Cassidy 4 b. Ireland
Patrick Cassidy 2 b. Ireland
Kate Cassidy Under 1 Month b. Glasgow
Mary Stafford 18 river maker, sister in law, b. Ireland

Address: 18 Grace St, Anderston/Glasgow

One of the children's births in Longford https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG2Z-JF6 and youngest's details here https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTFQ-JFW

The family show as living at 37 Albert Street Govan by 1901.

Monica
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 15 June 16 22:34 BST (UK)
Sorry, Sacti, post crossed over!

Yep, that is what it is looking like isn't it.

Monica
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 15 June 16 22:36 BST (UK)
From the 1907 marriage in Govan:


Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: isobelw on Wednesday 15 June 16 22:39 BST (UK)
Ann Cassidy or Stafford died in 1924. Year of birth 1859 (Scotlandspeople).
Isobel
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 15 June 16 22:40 BST (UK)
Also found an old post here on RC www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=671930.0

Monica
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: sancti on Wednesday 15 June 16 22:52 BST (UK)

Children of Patrick Cassidy and Ann Stafford


Name:   Robert Cassidy   Date of Birth:   18-Feb-1881
        Date of Baptism:   20-Feb-1881
Address:   Kellashee Street   Parish/District:   LONGFORD



Name:   George Cassidy   Date of Birth:   26-Jun-1884
        Date of Baptism:   27-Jun-1884
Address:   Workhouse Longford   Parish/District:   LONGFORD



Name:   Francis Cassidy   Date of Birth:   11-Aug-1886
        Date of Baptism:   23-Aug-1886
Address:   Holborn St.   Parish/District:   SLIGO
Gender:   Male   County   Co. Sligo
Denomination:   Roman Catholic
Father:   Patrick   Mother:   Anna Stafford

No record showing for a birth in Longford for Francis and maybe the Sligo born Francis died and another Francis born in Longford but not showing on online resources
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: LongfordHeritage on Wednesday 15 June 16 23:25 BST (UK)
My goodness, thank you all so much. I wasn't expecting to get a reply so soon, especially so many and so detailed. And the fact that you were able to cut through the, frankly "treacley" Irish records, is a feat of near genius. For those that aren't aware, civil registrations weren't introduced there until 1864 and they weren't compulsory, so only about an estimated 60% of births were formally registered, so baptismal records were generally more extant. However these should be approached with caution due to the human factor.

The name for Francis's wife was gleaned from the Register of Soldier's Effects, but no other information was available to us, other than the mention of him being from Longford in the Irish Memorial Register. Although we knew he was obviously in Lanark in 1914 to enlist, without knowing when he moved to Scotland, it was impossible to know if he was included on any of the Irish censuses or which Scottish censuses. I did have a quick look at the 1911 Scottish census, but not exhaustively.

Sanci, perhaps the Sligo and Longford Francises are the same? He may have been born there, but raised here and considered himself a Longford-man? Certainly it wouldn't be the first time I've come across a Longford person having a different place of birth and vice versa. I'll be meeting the other members of the committee on Friday, but will chat to the main researcher tomorrow and see if it triggers a memory and will ask another member to check the parish register. 

Again, thank you all so very much, and will get back to you if we hear any more.  :)
Kindest regards
Mairead

PS Sue - I'm very sorry, but I appear to be unable to send messages at the moment. I'm guessing it's something to do with my low number of posts. But the very best of luck with your research!
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: sancti on Wednesday 15 June 16 23:36 BST (UK)
Looking at the census info that Monica posted it looks like there was only 1 Francis
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: sancti on Wednesday 15 June 16 23:37 BST (UK)
Can't see this guy on your database

DONLON, THOMAS FRANCIS

Rank:PrivateService No:6215124Date of Death:02/11/1942Age:28
Regiment/Service:Middlesex Regiment 1/7th Bn.
Grave Reference: 2. B. 15. Cemetery:BENGHAZI WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information:Son of John and Mary Donlon, of Ballymahon, Co. Longford, Irish Republic.
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: sancti on Wednesday 15 June 16 23:48 BST (UK)
CULLEN, FRANCIS

Rank:TrooperService No:6918678Date of Death:02/09/1943Age:29
Regiment/Service:Reconnaissance Corps 18th (5th Bn. The Loyal Regt.) Regt.
Grave Reference: B1. F. 5. Cemetery:THANBYUZAYAT WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information:Son of Pat and Kate Cullen, of Edgworthstown. Co. Longford. Irish Republic.
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: sancti on Wednesday 15 June 16 23:54 BST (UK)
Just noticed it is only ww1 era you are recording
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: Cheskauk2013 on Thursday 16 June 16 11:11 BST (UK)
Hello,

 This is great ☺. Patrick Cassidy and Ann stafford had a daughter Mary born in Govan, Lanarkshire around 1895 but she died in 1929. I think that Francis son of Patrick and Ann is her older brother. I know nothing about this side of the family tree but would love to explore more. I believe Patrick and Ann are my 2nd Great Grandparents. I have Mary's marriage cert which shows that her brother George Cassidy was present at her wedding.

Francesca ☺
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 16 June 16 11:26 BST (UK)
Francesca, you made over the water to Scotland!

From your previous post where you included the 1901 census entry for the family:


This may be the family in 1901 Living at 37, Albert Street, Govan

CASSIDY Patrick 40    Fireman On Steamship  b Ireland       
CASSIDY Annie    Wife    42    b Ireland   
CASSIDY Robert 19 Apprentice Riveter Shipyard b Ireland
CASSIDY George 17    Apprentice Riveter Shipyard b Ireland   
CASSIDY Francis 15    Apprentice Catch Shipyard b Ireland   
CASSIDY Patrick 13 b Ireland   
CASSIDY Mary    6  b Govan, Lanarkshire   
CASSIDY Susan 3 b Govan, Lanarkshire


Young Catherine born in 1891in Govan likely died young as she doesn't show above.

The likely death of Ann Stafford/Cassidy has been mentioned by Isobel, and Heywood in the other post. You can view the image of the death cert for her online on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk I think you had her father's name confirmed as Peter from the 1880 Irish marriage cert. The Scottish death cert will give you also hopefully her mother's name (if known to the informant).

Patrick Cassidy you would think also died in Scotland. Similarly, his death cert will/should include  his parents' details.

Monica

Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 16 June 16 11:32 BST (UK)
Possible entry for Annie's sister Mary perhaps? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5ZR-M5H

Hopefully, the death reg for Ann Stafford will help you further  :)

Monica
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 16 June 16 11:40 BST (UK)
Keep in mind this 1901 census entry in Longford for Ann and Mary Stafford's parents:

www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Longford/Ballymahon/Drinan/1547258/

Although, given the age of Ann and her birth year c. 1858-9, very likely that Bridget is a second wife to Peter Stafford? Hopefully, the death cert of Ann Stafford Cassidy will let you confirm further details.

Mary Stafford back in Drinan by 1911 with siblings? www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Longford/Ballymahon/Drinan/581051/

From the 1901 census list for the family, children's births:

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Apeter~%20%2Bsurname%3Astafford~%20%2Bspouse_givenname%3Abridget~

Monica
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: Cheskauk2013 on Thursday 16 June 16 13:50 BST (UK)
 :). I'm out the moment so will have a proper read through later.  :)

Thank you,

F
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: LongfordHeritage on Thursday 16 June 16 15:13 BST (UK)
Can't see this guy on your database

DONLON, THOMAS FRANCIS

Rank:PrivateService No:6215124Date of Death:02/11/1942Age:28
Regiment/Service:Middlesex Regiment 1/7th Bn.
Grave Reference: 2. B. 15. Cemetery:BENGHAZI WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information:Son of John and Mary Donlon, of Ballymahon, Co. Longford, Irish Republic.

Again many thanks to you all for the additional information.

Sancti, and thanks for noting those two soldiers, but as you noted to date it primarily concerns WW1 soldiers and 1916 Rising participants; this is still a work in progress and we are prioritising those who passed away. Information is added as it comes available and we are encouraging family members and others to share whatever knowledge they have.
Nevertheless, we have just this week expanded the conflicts and armies and this includes WW2. Please feel free to submit those soldiers using our add a soldier feature, although it may be a couple of months before we get to verifying and adding additional info.
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: dathai on Thursday 16 June 16 15:28 BST (UK)
Jacobus (James)Cassidy married Catherine Furey 16th Feb 1858
Wits  Felice?Cassidy and Catherine McManus

left hand side
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632410#page/161/mode/1up
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: Cheskauk2013 on Tuesday 28 June 16 12:28 BST (UK)
Hi,

Finally got the time to look. I'm on Scotland's People trying to find Ann Stafford Cassidy death cert but not having much luck.

1923   CASSIDY   ANN       STAFFORD   F   64   DYSART   /FIFE   426/00 0026

The above seems to be the one that keep's appearing. Any assistance is much appreciated. What do you think?

Francesca :)
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: isobelw on Tuesday 28 June 16 12:52 BST (UK)
That is the death I found. Apologies for error in my earlier post where I have put 1924 instead of 1923.
Isobel
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: Cheskauk2013 on Tuesday 28 June 16 12:55 BST (UK)
Thank you :) Isobel.Your help is much appreciated :). I have been struggling for a while with the Stafford's.

Just to update I have a marriage cert where Peter Stafford is her Father but realised I got a date mixed up so I will forget about that line of research for now. The death cert states her parent's are Patrick Stafford (Blacksmith) and Ann Lennock.
George Cassidy (son) is also on the death cert. George is also on Mary Cassidy's (daughter) marriage certificate.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=751151.new#new

May be of interest.
Title: Re: Help To Find Death Cert
Post by: suec45 on Tuesday 12 July 16 20:52 BST (UK)
Jacobus (James)Cassidy married Catherine Furey 16th Feb 1858
Wits  Felice?Cassidy and Catherine McManus

left hand side
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632410#page/161/mode/1up

Thank you so much for finding that record I still have not found a record their son Patrick in 1873 would it be in the parish records