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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Captain Pancake on Thursday 05 November 09 14:35 GMT (UK)

Title: Ronald and Dorothy Cayton
Post by: Captain Pancake on Thursday 05 November 09 14:35 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I am posting as I am in need of assistant.

I was wondering if any of you people could help me by telling me how to go about this.

I am trying to hunt down a Great Aunt:

Born Dorothy West from Frensham Surrey, met Ronald Cayton* a South African soldier based at Borden Camp and married him on the 18th May 1912.
All we know is that she moved to South Africa, Bezuidenhout Valley  with him and had 3 children, 1 that died early.

Have already checked the passenger liners records = nil
Has anyone got any clues of how to go about finding her relatives??

*Had to edited this abit due to the fact that South African soldiers didn't come over to England till 1914/1915. All the rest can be backed up with "found" letters.
Need to trace now the relatives of their children: Gordon and Linda
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: winston on Thursday 05 November 09 16:23 GMT (UK)
HI


Just curious where did this couple marry?


Wendy
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: meles on Thursday 05 November 09 16:34 GMT (UK)
Have a look at the advice on the S African posts here (Click on South Africa at the bottom of the page)

http://www.national.archives.gov.za/ is a good start.

meles
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Captain Pancake on Thursday 05 November 09 17:18 GMT (UK)
HI
Just curious where did this couple marry?
Wendy

To be honest, we don't really know at the moment as we have not seen the Marriage Cert.

But would have imagine somewhere around The Bourne in Surrey, or any of the neighbouring villages, in the 1911 census she is residencing at 3 Bourne Terrace Farnhan Surrey
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: meles on Thursday 05 November 09 17:31 GMT (UK)
I tried looking for her in the 1911 cenus but I got a "timed out" message" (new to me!)

Do you have her date and place of birth from the 1911 census?

meles
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: winston on Thursday 05 November 09 18:18 GMT (UK)
HI

Ref for those looking for her in the lastest census

Dorothy West 1894 born Farnham


Wendy
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: winston on Thursday 05 November 09 18:21 GMT (UK)
Hi

I asked abt the marriage place cos I've looked for her marriage in the normal way and I can't see it.


Wendy
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Captain Pancake on Thursday 05 November 09 19:15 GMT (UK)
Hi

I asked abt the marriage place cos I've looked for her marriage in the normal way and I can't see it.
Wendy

Oh......

The date was written in her sisters hymn book that my mother has, I can only take for granted that they got married in the Uk before going to SA, maybe a chaplian from the army did it???

Have linked a picture of it:
http://thehomeguard.eu/Photos/Scan2.jpg

The plot thicknens
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: winston on Thursday 05 November 09 19:21 GMT (UK)
HI

Can I ask then where does the name of Ronald Clayton come into it?

Because I've found a marriage of a Dorothy L West to a Herbert Hack who in the 1911 census was single and a Driver in the Army and he was born 1891 Bourne Surrey.  I do have two children born to this couple a herbert in 1912 and a dorothy 1918 tehn in 1921 Dorothy and children do indeed head off to SA.


Wendy
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: meles on Thursday 05 November 09 19:23 GMT (UK)
It does indeed!  :)

The Chaplain may well have done it. But it still would need to be registered - so there would be a certificate.

This is getting very interesting!

meles
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: winston on Thursday 05 November 09 19:41 GMT (UK)
HI

Just to say that the marriage of Herbert Hack and Dorothy L West was in the April to Jun quarter of 1912  which would fit in with the date of marriage seen in the Hymm book.

Wendy 
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Captain Pancake on Thursday 05 November 09 19:41 GMT (UK)
Wow,

Going to look into this really closely now, I looked at the "Hack" at was talked out of it :'(

Thanks guys for keeping with it, but Wendy...how did you find that they went to SA??

Could you post up the link so that i can see it plz.
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Captain Pancake on Thursday 05 November 09 19:49 GMT (UK)
Is there a way to check where the "L" comes into her name???
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: meles on Thursday 05 November 09 19:51 GMT (UK)
What is the source of this information? Family knowledge? Could it be that somerhing has got lost in the telling?

How about - Dorothy married Herbert Hack (so hence details on book). The emigrated to SA.

Herbert died and she remarried.

We'd be hard pushed to find her in SA when we not exactly sure of her surname.

I think you might order that marriage certificate and see if it's her.

meles
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Captain Pancake on Thursday 05 November 09 19:56 GMT (UK)
Indeed,

My mothers sure the name was Ronald Clayton but the evidence is starting to mount up tho.

How would I go about ordering a marriage cert please?
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Captain Pancake on Thursday 05 November 09 20:10 GMT (UK)
Ok, slight up here:

Dorothy L West in the 1911 census is in Swansea, where Dorothy West is living with my nan Martha and mother Eliza in Bourne Terrace.

Knew it wouldn't be straight forward.

Kind thanks to the SilverFox for pointing that out
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: meles on Thursday 05 November 09 20:14 GMT (UK)
You go here.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

The reference is - Apr-Jun 1912 Farnham 2a 271

meles
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: winston on Thursday 05 November 09 20:22 GMT (UK)
HI

the 1911 with Dorothy L West shows that one as bieng born in Swansea but my guess is that this is yours as in teh birth reg which would/could tie in with that marriage to Herbert Hack still.


Births Sep 1894   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
West  Dorothy Logan    Farnham  2a 128



Sorry but I seam to have a bit of a bee in my bonnet


Wendy
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Silverfox1 on Thursday 05 November 09 20:44 GMT (UK)
Captain Silverfox here, Dorothy had Three children one killed by a car in SA.

Dorothy was from the farnham area in Surrey, so I dont think that  Dorothy L is our girl.
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: winston on Thursday 05 November 09 20:51 GMT (UK)
HI Silverfox and All

I've looked for a Ron' Clayton in the 1911 census and there are none that I could find that would satisfy a very quick marriage.


I think that marriage cert is def needed


Wendy
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: meles on Thursday 05 November 09 20:56 GMT (UK)
Silverfox - please don 't think me rude, but how do you know Dorothy came from Farnham?

Capt P seems to confirm she was in Swansea in 1911, and she was with known relatives.

So often things that are "known" in the family turn out not to be the case.

But if you have info to the contrary, then you can save him the cost of a marriage certificate!  ;D

meles
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Captain Pancake on Thursday 05 November 09 20:57 GMT (UK)
Aye, but in the 1901 census she is 6 years old with her sister and brothers and  mother Eliza, 1891 same mother and siblings.
We have concrete proof of the 2 sister and 1 brother, photos and living proof.

So I really think it cannot be the swansea girl, all of her West Family org form the Frensham surrey area.
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: meles on Thursday 05 November 09 20:59 GMT (UK)
OK. Good and sorted.

Back to the drawing board!  ;)

meles
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Silverfox1 on Thursday 05 November 09 21:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Winston

We have been trying to track Dorothy down for some time. If see left the country to go to SA around 1912 - 18 she would have had to have had a pass port are these records available and where.

We cant find any records of the troops moving from Bordon Amy camp but we know they did as the camp went to Aldershot, around that time.

We have been to the Surrey history centre and look through the wedding certs but could not find one for her.

If you guys can be of any help it would be great.

Many Thanks for now.
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Captain Pancake on Thursday 05 November 09 21:02 GMT (UK)
Capt P seems to confirm she was in Swansea in 1911, and she was with known relatives.

So often things that are "known" in the family turn out not to be the case.
meles

Opps.................everthing is getting confused here :P

Silerfox is my Brother, our mother remembers her Mother = Martha talking to her about Dorothy meeting an SA soldier and going to SA, the Swansea girl cannot possibly be our Dot.
She ties in with the census with her brother and sisters who we have photos of.
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Captain Pancake on Thursday 05 November 09 21:03 GMT (UK)
Damm the slow refresh button 8)
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: winston on Friday 06 November 09 05:28 GMT (UK)
Silverfox

I agree with you in the fact that Dorothy (whatever her surname was at the time) would indeed have needed a passport of sort.  Sadly the records that we as the public do have access to are only available for 1851 to 1903 due to data protection and all that.


I have seen a couple of family trees which contain Dorothy West 'marrying' a Ronald Clayton but again they have no extra info to offer either no dates no ages for him in fact no mention of children.


If noly Dorothy had been a bit older and married before the census and was perhaps living with hubby in the latest census at the time.  I would not be questioning the marriage to Mr R Clayton.


But I am still intrigued as to where the name came from for you and Captain to be aware of it.


I will be back, unless I get lost in the hunt.


Wendy
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: winston on Friday 06 November 09 05:37 GMT (UK)
HI Captain

Is this link connected to your West Family since you made a post on it I was just wondering


http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,413173.0.html

Wendy
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Silverfox1 on Friday 06 November 09 10:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Wendy / Winston

We have come by the name Ronald Clayton from my Mother, I have got the date of the wedding from her Mums, my Nans prayer book.

We have heard of some letters, sent from Dorothy and are tracking them down in the family. Lets hope these can give us more clues to this.

Silverfox
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Captain Pancake on Monday 09 November 09 20:32 GMT (UK)
HI Captain

Is this link connected to your West Family since you made a post on it I was just wondering


http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,413173.0.html

Wendy

Guilty your honour  :)
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Captain Pancake on Tuesday 10 November 09 13:56 GMT (UK)
*Edit* to first post:

Change of surname: Ronald Cayton
Title: Re: Immigration to South Africa in the 1900's
Post by: Captain Pancake on Sunday 22 November 09 22:32 GMT (UK)
Slight update here on the Cayton family.

Last known fixed address was 5th Avenue, Bezuidenhout Valley, Johannesburg, that was in 1924.

They then went to stay with Ronald Cayton parents in Durban.