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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: richyv on Tuesday 03 November 09 10:54 GMT (UK)
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hi, i am trying to find any records of joseph Venus,(my GGGGG Grandfarther) b1774 Kent, married Elizabeth Turner 2 March 1794, eynsford Kent. also has any records of
Thomas Venus 1796 - 1860,
Aaron Venus 1837 - 1898,
Daniel Venus 1882 - 1933
Aaron D S Venus 1905 - 1985
i have birth some information on Aaron D S Venus as my parents knew, him berth cert, death cert etc . .
I have all the sensus from 1911 - 1841
Any information on the above would be greatfully appreciated as i have come to a stop
Moderator Comment: Also posted on Northumberland Board
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The IGI website ( http://tinyurl.com/5kwh ) has a fair list of records for VENUS in Kent.
It includes Thomas, plus Joseph and Elizabeth's marriage, but perhaps thats where you got the info you already have?
It doesn't have any other entries for Joseph anywhere in the country (not just Kent), but then their records are far from complete.
Do you have any clues, however small, that might suggest where Joseph came from, if perhaps it wasn't Kent?
I also found this
Name: Thomas Venus
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 13 Dec 1796
Christening Place: Seven Oaks, Kent, Eng
Father's Name: Joseph Venus
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Maternal Grandfather's Name: John Turner
Maternal Grandmother's Name: Ann
The original source for this is:
Source Citation: Place: Seven Oaks, Kent, Eng; Collection: Dr. William's Library; Nonconformist Registers; Date Range: 1796 - 1796; Film Number: 815988.
This fits in with the IGI record's comment "Baptist", and Eynsford is very close to Sevenoaks.
So it might be worth checking out the National Archives non-conformist records. Viewable at http://tinyurl.com/yzaw4lu
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thank you for the information you have provided, i have no further information regarding Joseph Venus, Most of my information has been found on ancestry, mostley from the census, i did find information on the Burials & Christenings of Venus family in kent
i know they lived around the St Mary Cray, Kent area aswell as Dartford area
http://www.kent-opc.org/Parishes/PRTranscripts/Cray%20St%20Mary%20ChrA.html
http://www.kent-opc.org/Parishes/Cray%20St%20Mary.html
unfortinatley i am unable to access the tinyurl links yoy have provided, would it be possible to have the full address for the information you have provided
many thanks
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Hi,
Could one or all of these be 'your' Joseph VENUS?
Deaths
Joseph VENESS Dec Q 1848 Cranbrook, Kent 5 60
1841 HO107/475/13 f.40 p.2 Sandhurst, Kent (Registration district: Cranbrook)
James MILLS 60 Ag Lab Y
Ann " 60 Y
Elizabeth " 20 Y
James " 15 Y
/
Joseph VENESS 75 N
Ann GADD 4 Y
//
As the 1841 census shows him as born out of county how about this baptism,
Joseph VENES
16 Nov 1765
Brightling, Sussex
Father's Name: James VENES
Mother's Name: Elisabeth
Regards
Daisy
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hi
i don't think the Venus's you have mentioned are related to me altough the spelling of the surname can be misspelt (even in todays times).
i will look again at the 1841 census
Many Thanks
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Re the tiny urls:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/index.php
But I'm interested to know why you were unable to access them. What error did you get? I've never come across any problem like that before.
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thank you for reply
i did eventualy get the links to work, it was my firewall that was stoping access to tinyurl.com
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Arran VENUS was my ggg grandfather and married Mary Ann NEVANS at Southwick Parish Church Sunderland on 16 Sep 1858.
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hi david
thank you for the reply, do you have any more inforation relating to Aaron and his family, Aaron was also my ggg grandfarther, his son daniel was my gg grandfarther, Aaron D S my g grandfarther, Stanley B my grandfarther, as i am strugling for info, i have all the census information.
Aaron is not shown on the 1871 census he may have been working as a mariner.
any information on anyone in the family would be most greatful
many thanks
richard
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Hello,
Do you know of the Medwaycityark site?
I am sure that I have noticed the name Venus among parish records for Dartford churches
when I have been searching my own families, but didn't notice where exactly.
It is a very useful site, but needs to be trawled through parish by parish.
I hope this might be useful. ama
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Hello
I am descended from Aaran VENUS daughter Charlotte b 21 June 1869 at Harlands Cottages, Orpington. I cannot find her death certificate at the moment. She married George HUDSON a mariner at St James Church Gateshead on 1 August 1886. Havent done any research on other members of the VENUS family though.
Couldnt find any info on the 1871 census either Im afraid but Ill keep looking.
Regards
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I am descended from Thomas & Charlotte Venus of St Mary Cray via their son AAron who married Mary Ann Nevans at Saltwick parish Church in Sunderland.They had 8 children one of whom was my grandfather Daniel Venus
b in 1882. Daniel married an Emily Anderson who hailed from Seaham Harbour in the North East. Daniel and Emily had 4 children one of whom died as a young boy(Daniel). The other children were Aaron David Saxby, Stanley and Margaret. Stanley was my father. ADS was so christened first with a biblical name,then David after his maternal grandfather(David Anderson) and finally Saxby because that was the name of the jockey who rode the winner of the big race on the day that he was born(Grandfather Daniel was a back street bookmaker in Gateshead). Family folklore has Aaron the elder sailing up from Kent and meeting his 17 yr old bride at Sunderland.Some of their children were born in Kent and some in Gateshead. There is quite an imposing gravestone commemorating Daniel and Emily Venus on the left hand side not very far into the main entrance of Sunderland Road Cemetry between Newcastle and Gateshead. Aaron the elder and Mary Ann are also buried in this cemetry but their is no gravestone.I have never been able to link with certainty Thomas' Venus birth parents
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Thomas Venus b. 13th Dec 1796 Baptist, Eynsford, Kent, England
Christening :- Seven Oaks, Kent, England
Marriage to Chrlotte Watson 1816, Orpington Kent
Joseph Venus b. 1774
Marriage to Elizabeth Turner 2nd March 1794, Eynsford Kent.
https://beta.familysearch.org may be of some use
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[Hi
My children are descendants of Charlotte Venus. She married a George Hudson who died around 1904-1908 but I cannot trace death cert. They had 6 children together. She then took up resident with a new partner, James Dickson Jones and they had a child called Robina Jones. Robina is my childrens great grandmother. Charlotte died giving birth to her second child with james in 1911. Her death cert is a Charlotte Jones.
Has anyone any photos of Charlotte Venus or her children,
william 1886
nathaniel 1888
margaret 1891
catherine 1892
john t 1896
georgina 1904
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I have no photographs Im afraid. Catherine Hudson was my great grandmother b. 12 April 1892 Summer Street Gateshead d. 13 November 1970 St Nicholas Hospital Newcastle upon Tyne. I could not find Charlotte Venus death certificate - no wonder if she was married again!
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Thanks David
If you look at 1911 census for Catherines youngest sister Georgina Huson, you will find her living with her mother, Charlotte Hudson and Charlottes partner James Jones. I cant find evidence of Charlotte and James ever been married but she was buried as Jones. I have her death cert and her daughter Robinas birth certificate if you would like a copy for your family tree.
Are you on Ancestry.co.uk?
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Thanks for that. My Ancestry username is DAVIDUK2381
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Shields Gazette Published on Mon Jan 05 01:56:52 GMT 2009
IT was an endearing image while it lasted – that Israel Venus ended his days as an old man of the sea, surrounded by a large and loving family.
The truth? Israel Venus hanged himself in his own tripe preparer's shop near the Market Place in Shields. He was only 37.
"I always knew that he died young, but I would have been less surprised to discover that it had been from cholera or something like that, than that he had taken his own life. It was quite sad," said Diane Peacock.
Diane, of Fitzpatrick Place in South Shields, was left aghast and excited when she opened her Gazette to Cookson Country just before Christmas, to see names and places straight out of her family history.
There, in letters, birth certificates and other documents, some more than 150 years old, were whole missing chapters in the story of Israel, her great-great-great grandfather, and his offspring.
Twenty years after she first started researching her family tree, it was a genealogical bounty the mum-of-two never expected to see.
"It's a dream come true. They'll be treasured forever," said Diane, 44, a clerical worker at South Tyneside College.
Gazette reader Kerry Bailey had brought the items to Cookson Country, having hung on to them since they were saved in a house clearance some years ago.
They include a wedding ring and a lock of hair, plus numerous letters, some sent from the Western Front during the First World War.
Most date from between the turn of last century and the 1930s and were sent to family members living in and around the Mile End Road area.
Several documents are particularly enthralling, among them the indentures Israel Venus signed as a seagoing apprentice in 1839, his employer being a South Shields ship owner called Elizabeth Gare.
Israel Venus belongs to Diane's mother's side of the family, which she has researched back to as early as 1500.
"The name Venus originally came from Normandy," she said.
Israel was born in September, 1824, in a small parish called St Mary's Cray in Kent, to a family of agricultural labourers. He was one of 13 children.
"I think their father must have been a Baptist as all the children had biblical names such as Moses, Aaron, Daniel, Esther and the like," said Diane.
Most of the children stayed in Kent, and Diane, who has visited Israel's birthplace and still has family in the area, believes that it was as a young man, when field work became harder to make a living, that Israel must have signed up as a seaman.
It was how he met his wife, Dorothy Ann Miller, who was the daughter of a master mariner. They married in 1848 at St Hilda's Church in Shields and went on to have six children.
"Their eldest child was called Mary Miller Venus, born 1848, who became my great-great grandmother," said Diane."Mary married Robert Forster, a ballast trimmer, in 1873 at St Stephen's church."
The discovery of the documents prompted Diane to try to discover how Israel died.
Her search led her to the pages of the Gazette in the summer of 1861, and a report of an inquest held at the Crown and Anchor Inn in Thrift Street, on the riverside.
This revealed that Israel had been found hanging in his tripe preparer's premises in Saltwell Lane, which used to be between Ferry Street and the Market Place.
It was reported that he had been drinking in the days beforehand and had been in a "low state of mind".
Israel's daughters, Charlotte and Dorothy, along with their mother, kept the tripe business going after Israel's death.
Alexander Chappel, who was Scottish and who married Charlotte, also went into the business and took an active part in it when he left the sea.
"Israel's wife, Dorothy Ann, is buried in Westoe Cemetery, and her headstone, which is a considerable size, still stands today along the back of the cemetery near Erskine Road.
Israel was buried in St Stephen's churchyard," said Diane.
"I like to think that the red hair and the wedding ring belonged to Israel, and was lovingly kept by his wife as a keepsake."
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Shields Gazette Published on Wed Dec 17 14:53:41 GMT 2008
A WEEK before Christmas, two years into the reign of Queen Victoria, Israel Venus signed as an apprentice to the sea.
His employer, a South Shields ship owner, was a woman, Elizabeth Gare - not unusual in 1839 - and Israel's indentures show that he was responsible for providing his own sea-bedding, clothes and other necessaries, while at the same time refraining from dice and cards, and frequenting taverns unless on his mistress's business.
Handling the stiff, grey document today, you can almost hear the solicitor's clerk's nib scratching over its waxy surface. The red wax seal is redolent of candlelight in the dark depths of winter.
This was the year Olive Twist was published. It is our own glimpse inside lost Dickensian world.
But it's only where the story begins. Over the course of it, other folk weave in and out: a farmer, a soldier, a shopkeeper and that wonderful trade of by-gone days, a tripe dresser.
But there are also mysteries. Whose was the lock of pale red hair, lovingly kept wrapped in paper, alongside a worn wedding ring?
Contained in battered cardboard that once held chocolates, and an even older and even more knocked-about metal cash box, it's one family's history. Is it yours?
"A friend did a house clearance some years ago and these were among the things that were salvaged," said reader Kerry Bailey, who recently dropped the finds into Cookson Country.
"Some of it is really interesting about different, old places in Shields," said Kerry, who lives at The Nook and who would like to return the memorabilia to the original owner's family, if any are still in the area.
There are photographs, birth, death and marriage certificates, funeral bills, letters, pertaining mainly to people who, it would appear, were either Israel Venus's descendants or members of families that they married into.
So what more do we know about Israel? After four years, during which he earned a total of 30 - equivalent to about 1,300 today - he had completed his apprenticeship to Mrs Gare's satisfaction.
He then re-appears 30 years later, in 1873, when his daughter Mary, 25, marries a trimmer, Robert Foster, the son of a farmer, Thomas Foster, at St Stephen's Church on The Lawe.
Later again, in 1888, another daughter, Charlotte Venus, aged 29, marries Alexander Chappel, again at St Stephen's Church.
At this time both families are living at 13 Thrift Street, on the riverside below The Lawe, and Israel is described as still being a seaman.
Alexander Chappel is interesting because, at the time of his marriage, he was also seafaring.
But four years later, he was obviously seeking to settle ashore.
After Israel Venus's indentures, one of the loveliest documents in the collection is the confirmation, in 1892, of Alexander Chappel's purchase, from a James Wetherell, of a "tripe boiling house and stable hut of brick and wood" located at the back of Thames Street, which ran from behind Mile End Road to the riverside.
It cost 60, equivalent to about 3,500 today, which was paid in instalments of between 5 and 7, and which included "pots, tubs and other sundries, also a long cart barrow."
Subsequent family developments are more hazy.
In 1906, a Mr Chapel (sic) paid a bill of 9 18s 6d to a funeral director, Deacon's, in Keppel Street, South Shields, the biggest outlay of which was for an "adults coffin" at a cost of 3 15s. But whose was it?
Things grow hazier. By the time of the First World War, an Alex Chappel is writing home while serving with the British Expeditionary Force in France.
In the summer of 1916, there is also a letter from Dora Chappel, of 74 Mile End Road, to a Pte Matt Brown, serving with the 3rd Battalion Tyneside Scottish, also in France.
"Alex was here from France for (?) day and he looked a treat," she writes.
"Walter has his four days leave and has to return on Wednesday....You are right when you say I am tired of the war and will be glad when it is over..."
Much of the subsequent correspondence dates from the inter-war years and reflects everyday family life of the era, such a doctor's club card for Dr Ord, who had surgeries in Mile End Road and at Laygate, to whom payments of a shilling a fortnight were made, this in the days before the National Health Service.
There are bills, receipts and financial agreements, even a rather odd and shirty letter, dated December 1931, from Howard Stores in Clayton Street, Newcastle, which reads: "On Tuesday of this week, Mrs D....... of Cedar Grove, Cleadon, called and asked for goods on Hire Purchase. She stated that you had informed her that she could get anything, even boots. We may state that this not correct"!
Sadly, though, none of the paperwork tells us what happened to Israel Venus, but one sad letter does record the death of his daughter Charlotte, at the age of 80 in 1935, at the hospital in the East Riding of Yorkshire where had been a patient for more than 20 years.
Much of the later correspondence is addressed to a Mrs D Harrison, general dealer, of 39 Fawcett Street which, again, was off Mile End Road.
Altogether, this is someone's family treasure trove.
If anyone can prove a claim on the documents, get in touch with me - but, please, not until after Christmas now.
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I am also tracing the Venus family tree. I have found that Joseph Venus born c.1774 was the son of Joseph and Mary Venus ( nee Hetcher) married 23/8/1760 at St. Alphege church, Greenwich.
Joseph was a carpenter , how bizarre is that ?
Does anyone have definite evidence that Aaron married Mary Ann Nevans ? as I have seen a record that says she was born in Seaton Delaval/Blyth and Aarons wife was supposed to have been born in Deptford, Sunderland.
The only record that Sunderland Council have is of George Venus marrying Mary A Mackey in 1856, which would make our Mary Ann about 15 when she got married, not the 17 that everyone thinks she was. It is possible that Aaron was known by the name of George, or it wad transcribed wrongly.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated
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Further to your post.I have a copy of the birth certificate of Aaron Venus and Mary Ann Nevans.They married at the parish church of Southwick in Sunderland on September 16th
1858. Aaron was a mariner at the time of their marriage and originated from St Mary Cray in Kent. Mary Ann's father was a William Nevans. They are both buried in Sunderland Rd. cemetry Gateshead but there is no headstone. They are my great grandparents and one of their sons Daniel was my grandfather. Mary Ann was 17 at the time of the wedding and a girl called Mary Nevens was baptised at Bishopwearmouth North in County Durham on 26th of March 1841 which would make her 17 in 1858. Her father's name is given as William on the birth certificate and her mother's name was Isabella Nevens (formerly Paul)
Hope this helps.
Ron Venus
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Hi Ron,
Thanks for that, I have been having trouble verifying Mary Ann's history.
We are obviously related, which branch do you belong to?
I am also descended from Aaron, via William, John Burns, etc.
Best Regards,
Rob Venus
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Aaron Venus was my great grandfather.His son Daniel my grandfather.Daniel had two sons, Aaron David Saxby Venus and Stan Venus. Stan was my father. Aaron the older had some children born in Kent and some in Gateshead. My father, his brother and sister Margaret were born in Gateshead. My Grandparents Daniel and Emily are buried in Sunderland Rd cemetry and there is quite a large gravestone there in their memory.They also had another son Daniel who died at a young age after an accident on the road.They lived in Camperdown St in Gateshead for many years. Thomas Venus my great great grandfather is buried in the churchyard at St Mary Cray in Kent but once again there is no headstone.I did a lot of work on the family tree a number of years ago and of course you are welcome to any info I have. Incidentally I am a 70 plus pensioner.
Regards,
Ron V.
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Hi Ron,
This is all good stuff !
I was born and raised in Gateshead but now at 65 I live just outside Harrogate.
I have found a WW1 enlistment record dated 1917 for Robert Venus of Victoria Road, Gateshead. Is he one of yours ?
Most people seem to be aware of Joseph b.1796 , but I have a parish record of his parents Joseph and Mary Hetcher getting married on 23 August 1760. I have no further details but he must hsve been born around 1740 ish.
I would appreciate more info on Daniels line, if possible
Best Regards,
Bobbyvee
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Sorry, that should have been Joseph b.1769 !
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If you don't mind me having your e mail address that may be a more convenient way to send extra data.My e address is ***** Interesting to hear that you now live near Harrogate.I have lived near Leyburn in the Yorkshire Dales for the last 5 years.
Regards,
Ron
*** Email address removed by moderator in accordance with Rootschat policy. Please use the secure Rootschat personal message system to exchange personal email addresses - thankyou.
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While looking for the ancestors of my Venus family from East Peckham, I came across the will of Thomas Veness, Wheelwright of Marden, dated 1 July 1806. In it he refers to his sister and brothers: Elizabeth Honeysett wife of William Honeysett of Lamberhurst, Sussex, Wheelwright, Benjamin Veness of Pembury, Kent, Wheelwright, John Veness late of London, Wheelwright and Joseph Veness of Saint Mary Cray, Kent, Cordwainer.
There is also the will of Thomas' wife Mary dated 25 February 1821, which mentions Benjamin Veness, Wheelwright of Pembury and Joseph Veness of Crayford, Kent, Cordwainer.
Could this be the Joseph Veness who married Elizabeth Turner on 2 Mar 1794 in Eynsford. I've also found an entry in the London Gazette of 14 Jul 1801, which mentions a Joseph Veness of Sevenoaks, Shoemaker, who was discharged from debtors prison. As cordwainer is another word for shoemaker the profession and location fits, as the children of Joseph and Elizabeth although baptised in Eynsford, were born in Sevenoaks (non-conformist BMD).
Thomas Veness of Marden also mentions his mother in his will, Elizabeth Parker of Heathfield, Sussex. Elizabeth Veness married Edward Parker on 9 Apr 1779 in Heathfield, Sussex.
So possibly the parents of Elizabeth, Thomas, Benjamin, John and Joseph were Thomas Veness and Elizabeth Card who married on 14 Jan 1752, Wartling, Sussex. The children having been baptised in Brightling, Sussex. There were 2 younger siblings Hannah and Samuel, but both died before their first birthday, but the others match.
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Responding to the post from LostSheep2. I notice that there was a 72 year old Elizabeth Venus living in 'Reynold Smiths' Orpington in 1841. Could this be the widow of Joseph Venus(Elizabeth Turner) who married in 1794(her age in 1841 would have made her a 25 year old when married). The age difference between her and her 'possible ' son Thomas Venus would be 27 years ( he being born in 1796) which adds up as he is shown as aged 45 in 1841 when she was 72. Any thoughts? Thomas was my gg grandfather so it would be nice to confirm Joseph & Elizabeth as his parents
Ron Venus
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I'm not sure about Elizabeth, but she could have been the wife of Richard Venus. There are baptisms in St. Mary Cray for their children, Michael (1802), Anne (1804) and Catherine (1807). There isn't a recorded baptism for David (b.1812) who is living with Elizabeth at Reynold's Smith in 1841, but he could have been there son, as Michael was also living at Reynold's Smith, Orpington in 1841 (and 1851) with his wife Matilda Quiddington.
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Aaron Venus was my aunts grandfather, her mother was Mary Ann Venus born in St Mary Cray, Kent. Mary Ann Venus Married William Patterson in Gateshead. Does anybody have any photographs of the Venus family, I would love to put a face to the names.