RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: hazelmoore on Monday 02 November 09 17:47 GMT (UK)
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In my tree I have a Rosina Kibble b.15.5.1876 who emigrated to N.Z. on July 24th 1907 on the Corinthic and apparently settled in Wellington. I haven't been able to find either a Marriage or Death entry on BDM N.Z. Is there anywhere else I can look? She had a sister, Lilian Maud (Lily) b.1888 who, it would seem, followed her (I can't find find her emigration) and married Augustus John Diddell in 1923/10283. (Any way I could find their children?) She also had a brother, Archibald, who emigrated with his wife Elizabeth in the 20s and, although I have found their later returns from trips to England, I can't find their emigration date. Is there any other way of finding out what happened to them and maybe find some cousins?!
Thank you in advance to anyone who can point me in the right direction.
Hazel
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Hi Hazel
Just for starters, the following appears to be Rosina's marriage.
Rosina KIBBLE - William Ernest WILLIAMS - 1907
I'll see what else I can find.
Lu
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--- this looks like Rosina's death ?
1969 - WILLIAMS - Rosina - aged 92 - (born circa 1877)
Can't find her in Wellington cemeteries ... but still looking.
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Hi Lu
Good Heavens! It looks like she married her 1st cousin born 1876 in Manchester, brother to my Grandmother!! She was sister to John Robert Kibble who married my Grandmother's sister Edith - so no, they weren't cousins, but brothers and sisters in law? I am amazed nobody of our generation knew about this!! I always wondered where William Ernest had disappeared to!! Please tell me where you found these in case I need Certificates!
Thank you very much indeed - if you found any children, I would be ecstatic!!!
Hazel
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Hi Hazel
The deaths of Rosina and William Ernest WILLIAMS appear on the NZ BDM Historical Index.
http://bdmhistoricalrecords.identityservices.govt.nz/
Unfortunately, place of death is not recorded on the index - but can be ascertained by viewing the microfiche record of Death Index (held at libraries in NZ).
I'm still looking to see if I can find cemetery records though.
Lu
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--- Are you still wanting information for Lilian Maud KIBBLE and her husband ? The surname "DIDDLE" is proving a little difficult. ;)
Lu
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Yes please! According to the BDM it is Diddell!! I realise Williams children will be difficult to find but maybe Diddell will be easier!
Are there any electoral rolls or Directories or Phone Books that might give some clue about their families? Also Archibald and Elizabeth...
Thank you again for your time
Hazel
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Lilliam Maud KIBBLE married Augustus John DIDDELL in 1923 Folio 4832.
Source: NZSG Marriage CD
Hope this helps
Regards
Newbe
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Lilliam Maud DIDDELL died 1974
She is buried at the Dannervirke - Mangatera Cemetery.
This is from the NZSG Burial Locator CD V2
It says there is a monumental inscription
Not sure if they are on-line
Newbe
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Hi Newbe
Thank you for that. Is the Cemetery in Wellington?
Hazel
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No it is not in Wellington.
It is up from Palmerston North if that helps.
Some one else may know more
Newbe
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Hi Newbe
No, it doesn't really help!!! Tomorrow I'll have to do a Map Search on N.Z. - as I have no idea where these people were living. I sort of imagined Wellington as that is where Rosina arrived!! Anyway, thanks - I'll have a go in the morning!
Good Night!
Hazel
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Hi again Hazel
Hmmm ... hey, diddle, diddle. ::)
It's helpful that Newbe has found the burial record for Lilian Maud. :)
In the meantime though, I've learned that the surname was apparently "DID-DELL" ... yes, hyphenated ... and of course some of the search engines, reject such names and finding records becomes difficult !
But I've found you some further information >> see next post.
Lu
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NZ Deaths
1974 - DID-DELL - Lilian Maud - d.o.b. 30 July 1887
1965 - DID-DELL - Augustus John - aged 68 (bc 1897)
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1986 - DID-DELL - Francis Cyril - d.o.b. 24 February 1926
1990 - DID-DELL - Royce John - d.o.b. 9 April 1924
[Very probably, Francis and Royce are the sons of Lilian ? ]
These are the only references I've been able to find for this particular surname.
Also - this death ... (which appears to be for the wife of Royce John DID-DELL ?)
1967 - DID-DELL - Winifred Inez - 45 years.
[See the NZ BDM web link given previously]
EDIT : Correction made to year of birth for Lilian Maud DID-DELL - should read "1887" :
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Cemetery Record (Cremation)
Totara Memorial Park Cemetery - Thames NZ
Royce John DID-DELL
died 13 May 1990 - aged 66
Ashes : At above-named cemetery
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Hazel
Here is a link to Telephone directories (covering ALL New Zealand).
Only the TWO entries for the surname "DID-DELL" ... and perhaps it's worth trying firstly the "H. DID-DELL" living in Thames (North Island).
http://yellow.co.nz/whitepages
Lu
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At FREE BMD (UK) :
BIRTHS - SEP - 1897
DIDDELL - Augustus John - reg'd at Camberwell
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Are there any electoral rolls or Directories or Phone Books that might give some clue about their families?
Also Archibald and Elizabeth...
Hazel
Archibald and Elizabeth KIBBLE don't appear to have died in New Zealand.
Just a note about "additional" records (electoral rolls etc. etc.) :
We are able to give assistance with records found on / or available through, websites. We provide what we can - (and so far ... that's quite a lot :D) - all the time respecting RootsChat's policy of not giving information about living or possibly still living, persons; and adhering to NZ BDM laws about what is permitted to be published in this forum.
In the timeframe for which you are seeking records, information from electoral roll/directories and the like, is ONLY accessible via libraries (and a few other respositories). You are therefore dependant on a kindly fellow RootsChatter, taking the time to visit a library, on your behalf. ;)
Lu
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Hi Lu,
That's WONDERFUL - thank you!! I had a moment's doubt when I saw Lilian's d.o.b., but I expect either she was being coy about her age, or (as A.J. died first) it was presumed she was the same age!! My records show July 30th 1888 - Births Sep 1888 Kibble Lilian Maud Holborn 1b 665. Certainly she was a whole lot older than him, but I am satisfied that it is the same Lilian!
I take your point about available records and I am extremely grateful to RootsChatters who constantly spend such alot of time helping other people, including me, chase their elusive rellies!
Am I right in thinking that a Death Certificate is the best place to get the most info. - like in Australia? I do wish British Certificates were so informative!!
I'll digest all the information you have given me and be back later maybe on Rosina's trail!
Thanks again
Hazel
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Well, I took the plunge and have ordered Rosina's Death certificate hoping it will confirm that William Ernest is indeed 'mine'! This is because his age at death does not correspond to his d.o.b. by 17 years! However, I shall also find out if they had any children. Unfortunately I had supposed that Certificates were down-loadable as they are in Australia but they are not! So I now have to contain my soul in patience until it arrives - probably a couple of weeks!
By the way, Newbe, Lilian Maud's d.o.b. was ok - obviously a typo!!
I am now chasing Archibald's children! Watch this space!!
Hazel
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By the way, Newbe, Lilian Maud's d.o.b. was ok - obviously a typo!!
CORRECTION made in my previous posting, to d.o.b. for Lilian Maude DID-DELL: Year should have read "1887" [not 1897]. :D
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Good Heavens! It looks like she married her 1st cousin born 1876 in Manchester, brother to my Grandmother!!
Well, I took the plunge and have ordered Rosina's Death certificate hoping it will confirm that William Ernest is indeed 'mine'! This is because his age at death does not correspond to his d.o.b. by 17 years! s!
But the "William Ernest WILLIAMS death (in NZ) - 1924 - aged 48 years" suggests this man was born c. 1876. ::) ???
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Am I right in thinking that a Death Certificate is the best place to get the most info. - like in Australia? I do wish British Certificates were so informative!!
New Zealand Death certificates are not quite as detailed as those from some Australian States. For example, (in NZ) ONLY the "living issue" of the deceased person is recorded; children's names are NOT shown (they're recorded only as male or female and age).
If you are only wanting to determine whether the couple in question had children, then a death record is the obvious choice, but it should be borne in mind that other information contained, may not be wholly accurate, supplied as it is, by a third party (the informant to the death).
The death record for Rosina will also likely only state "when/where and to whom, married" and note also that there is "no widower" :
The marriage record (1907) would contain details of the parents of both bride and groom, and is of course information supplied by the parties themselves. "Printouts" (images of actual registers), rather than certificates, is the recommended purchase for all NZ BDM records.
To learn what information is contained in records, refer to the Resources section of this board >> "BDM Information" :
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Well you see I put in 1930 as earliest date for Death!! And up came a William Ernest aged 71 who died in 1964 - hence my reserve!! I've now done it properly and found the real one - I am thrilled!! So it has to be him! However the Death Cert will hopefully give me other details (children etc.) that I can't hope to find with the Williams surname! :-[
Thanks for pointing it out!
Hazel
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Our last posts crossed! Shame there will be no children's names but it will be interesting anyway!
Hazel
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Hello Lucy2 & Newbe!
Sorry I have been so long getting back - yes, I received Rosina's Death Certificate but, in the end, it did little more than confirm her death (and give me exact date!) and husband and parents - they had no children!! However, I have since found Archibald and Elizabeth's children (not the ones I had previously thought!!) and made contact with one of their son's wives (now aged 82!) who lives in England.
Thank you so much for all the help you gave me, I really do appreciate it!
All the Best,
Hazel ;D
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Hi Hazel
Thanks for advising of the outcome ... we're always interested in hearing what further progress has been made. :)
Happy to have helped.
Best wishes
Lu
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Hi.
Aunt Rose (Rosina Kibble) had no children. Aunt Lil had two children. Uncle Arch was also in New Zealand, prior to his return to the UK. Florence also remarried in New Zealand.
I have the original of Rosina Kibble and William Williams marriage certificate, and may even have a copy of his death certificate.
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HI I am a Grandchild of Lilliam Maud DIDDELL died 1974
She is buried at the Dannervirke - Mangatera Cemetery
her husband is buried in Dannevirke lawn cemetery
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Hi,
I was just posting when we had a power cut!!! I'm now in a tiz as we're leaving for 3 weeks in England this afternoon and I still haven't packed!!
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to WPM and kittcat for their posts and I'll be in touch in September.
Hazel