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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Ronbucks on Friday 30 October 09 21:28 GMT (UK)
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Thomas Hill c1837 born in Edinburgh listed in 1881 Census Midlothian as a Chelsea Pensioner.
Married to Mary-Sarah Palmer c1834 who was born in Gibralter.
Please advise regarding researching his military service etc ?
They had two children c1868 Kent & c1870 Donegal.
*****COMPLETED***************
No more answers to MY queries.
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Welcome to the forum. Surviving pre-WW1 army records are being put online by Findmypast. They have scanned what survives from your period, but they are quoting 'by 2011' for putting them online. When they are available you will be able to do a name search. At present they are filed at the National Archives depending upon when he was discharged.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step4.htm
If he was discharged before the end of 1872 you need to know his regiment, so I would wait for FindMyPast. For 1873 to 1882 there are nine series, records are then alphabetical within each series. The three main series are cavalry, artillery and infantry (less Rifle Brigade which has it’s own).
You had to be at least 30 to be discharged to pension through length of service (12 years). An exception was if he was discharged early due to illness or injury. Men discharged early by purchase or with ignominy did not receive pensions. So the rule of thumb is look in the series when the man was 30 to 35.
If you don’t find his record you should spend time researching his regiment as then you can use the muster books (in WO12 in Kew).
Ken
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Sorry, Ronbucks, I don't mean to hijack your thread but can I just ask Ken some more information about the Findmypast army records please?
I've been in contact with the National Archives to obtain a copy of the service records for an ancestor of mine who was in the 91st Foot Regiment of the Argylls. I've been told that the search for his records would take longer than the 20-minute free-of-charge search and so they can't help me. He was discharged with a pension circa 1816. Would any information be available on FindMyPast for this period? Any advice or information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Thanks Ken,
This is all the information I have on this Chelsea Pensioner. I don't have any idea which regiment he was in ?
He was 31 when his first child was born and just wondering if his childrens birthplaces would give pointers to his regiment. Does his wifes parents possibly have a military background since she was born in Gibralter ?
I'm just wondering what research I can do on-line as I cannot justify a flight to London at present.
Is FindMyPast seperate from the National Archives ?
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Hi Annie
You must have got the Saturday Girl as everyone in the NA should know that pre 1855 discharges can be searched online on the NA catalogue - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp - putting his name in word or phase, and WO (for War Office) in the series code. They are on microfilm in Kew. FindMyPast are putting all pre 1914 discharges that are on paper or microfilm online.
If you get a hit try pressing REQUEST THIS. You will not get any FH information, other than place of birth, and age on enlistment. If his papers have not survived you can follow his service using the Muster Books (WO12). These are original documents so you will have to go to Kew and get a readers ticket.
They only introduced numbers in the 1820s. Before that you pray for a common name, as to tell them apart in the musters they added place of birth and trade on enlistment. Also if you can find them after they served 7 years and then 14 years (when they got an extra 1d a day) they included a summary and listed all regiments served in.
Ken
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Hi Ron
Is FindMyPast separate from the National Archives ?
They are a private company.
Most soldiers served in Kent at one time or another. Being the closest county to the continent they built a number of forts/barracks there. The closest army list I have is 1872 and I cannot see an infantry or cavalry regiment in Donegal. As a coastal county there would have been artillery there, and maybe other ‘corps’. But the army lists are not always accurate.
Have you got both children’s birth certificates? One or other might give the father’s regiment. You can save 3 euros by asking for Irish BMD certificates on plain paper. Or you can wait for FindMyPast, as then you can do a name search.
Ken
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Ken, thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I will try again with the NA.
Regards, Annie
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Ken,
The 1871 Census listed below suggests he was a Sergeant in the Royal Artillery :) ?
Thanks again Ron
NB.
1871 census shows at castle Dover
Dover kent
(seem to be listed soldier's -then wives -then children - there are 37 pages
but there is this
Thomas Hill Married 35 Sergeant R A b Scotland
RG10 1008 97 page 8
Mary Sarah Hill Married 32 Soldier's wife Spain british sbject
RG10 1008 107 page 28
then on page 32
jessie Hill 9 b Devonport Devon
Thomas Hill 7 b Plymouth Devon
Mary Sarah Hill 5 b Woolwich kent
james hill 3 b Woolwich kent
magdalena Hill 1 b ireland
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Just an update on the search for my ancestor's service records. I tried again via the 'Request This' as you suggested, Ken. I got the same reply. The search would take too long. :(
Does anyone on the Armed Forces forum offer a 'Look Up' for Kew or is it just too difficult a search? Unfortunately, I can't see me getting there anytime within the next six months or so. :(
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Does anyone on the Armed Forces forum offer a 'Look Up' for Kew or is it just too difficult a search?
It is an awkward search as you have to print off the papers from the microfilm, which you have to pay for in Kew, and the printers are not the best. And then scan them before emailing them to you. Or post the printed copies to you.
Someone with a good digital camera could take a picture of the screen and then email you. Or you could request a handwritten summary. Or you can pay a researcher - the NA have a list. Or you can wait for Findmypast.
Ken
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Thanks for the reply, Ken. I'm a complete novice when it comes to researching military history so I hope my questions weren't too stupid or cheeky. :) I'll put this on the back-burner for now until I can get to Kew.
Last question, I have another ancestor who fought with the Royal Garrison Artillery in France. He died of his wounds in 1917 in France. I have the CWGC details but where would I go to find details of his service records? All I could get from the NA was his medal card. Maybe I should be asking this question on the WWI forum?
Thanks for all the help to date - I really do appreciate it.
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The CWGC entry should give his number. Ancestry have now put all surviving WW1 records online and the NA have forced them to put in a better search. So if you have Ancestry you can try it online. If not, post his name and number and we can try for you.
Ken
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Thanks again for taking the trouble to reply, Ken. I don't have Ancestry (as yet) but I do have details of Donald Calderhead, my grandfather's brother. The CGWC certificate records:
In Memory of
Gunner DONALD CALDERHEAD
40304, 108th Heavy Bty., Royal Garrison Artillery
who died age 27
on 16 February 1917
Son of John Calderhead and Mary Wotherspoon Calderhead, of Wishaw, Lanarkshire.
Remembered with honour
ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
I have tried to find out what a Gunner's responsibilities are, without success. I must be looking in the wrong places.
I'm keen to learn anything about this man as my grandfather was disowned by his family when he married my grandmother (nothing sordid, just plain old sectarianism) and so I have a whole branch of family that I know nothing about. Any information you can offer would be gratefully received. I do appreciate the time, patience and effort you have spent helping such a sadly-lacking novice.
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If you PM an email address I will send you a copy of his medal index card. This shows he ‘entered theatre (of war)’ on 16 August 1914 so he must have been a pre war Regular.
This link gives some information - http://www.1914-1918.net/heavy-battery-index.htm This says the 108th Heavy Battery arrived in France on the 17th. The difference of a day is from the 19th century rule that overseas service started the day you left the UK, and not the day you arrived ‘overseas’.
Unfortunately his service record does not appear to have survived. Gunner was the RA equivalent to Private so he would carry out a multitude of tasks from getting shells, to digging the gun placement to operating the gun itself. Or basically anything he was told to do.
Ken