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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: cjstar on Friday 30 October 09 20:37 GMT (UK)

Title: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: cjstar on Friday 30 October 09 20:37 GMT (UK)
I am looking for any information regarding my Great Great Grandparents
Thomas Goulding was born in County Mayo in approx 1837
His wife Margaret Goulding was born in County Sligo in approx 1841
All i know is they had my Great grandma Margaret-ellen in Burnley in 1881
She was on the 1901 census aged 21
but i cannot find her or her parents in earlier census
Would love to know more about Thomas and Margaret's relatives.
Hope there is someone out there who could help me please
                          Thankyou
                             Kellie-ann
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 30 October 09 21:14 GMT (UK)
In 1891 they are indexed as FOULDEN and image is Foulden.  All children b Burnley

RG12 Piece 3361 Folio 123 Page 55

Thomas   50 b Ireland
Margaret   47 b Ireland
Patrick  23
George  14
Margaret E  11
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 30 October 09 21:17 GMT (UK)
In 1881 they are shown as GOLDEN - as per image   www.familysearch.org

In 1871 they are GOULDING

RG10 Piece 4147 Folio 129 Page 46
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 30 October 09 21:25 GMT (UK)
Marriages September qtr 1868 

Thomas Golden     Burnley  8e 366   
Margaret Granagin   

www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1868
 
Thomas Golden to Margaret GRANAGIN at Burnley Register Office or Registrar Attended registers at  Preston RM/25/142
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 30 October 09 21:28 GMT (UK)
1861 indexed as Grannaughhan b 1844 and in lodgings in Burnley with (possible sister) Sarah aged 22

RG9 Piece 3067 Folio 33 Page 13

Indexed as GOLDING - Thomas is also in lodgings in Burnley in 1861 aged 19.  There is also a Bridget Golding aged 21

RG9 Piece 3067 Folio 87 Page 28
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 30 October 09 21:38 GMT (UK)
The 1851 has 3 possibles for Thomas (nothing for Margaret) but they are all living in Liverpool but all b Ireland

Golden 1839 parents John & Esther

Golden b 1842 parents Thomas & Mary

Golding 1839 mother Margaret
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: cjstar on Saturday 31 October 09 08:57 GMT (UK)
Blimey would you know why they changed there surname twice,because we only ever knew them by the surname of goulding,I really appreciate what you have found out for me so far.
So he would not been known as Thomas Goulding in County Mayo
So was he Thomas Foulden
I am confused ???
             Thanks Carole
               Kellie
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: cjstar on Saturday 31 October 09 09:12 GMT (UK)
No it looks like he was Goulding first ,then he was Golden ,then he changed to Foulden later
The 3 options for his parent's my gut instinct is it could be Thomas and Mary though thats just a hunch.
It look's like they came over from Ireland when Thomas was very young according to the census to Liverpool, i am just trying to get my head round it.
Now i am wondering how he met Margaret unless they came over at roughly same time..
My mother is coming round today she is Margater ellen's grand-daughter she will be fascinated with what you have uncovered....
                   Thanks Carole
                           Kellie-ann ;D
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: shanew147 on Saturday 31 October 09 09:13 GMT (UK)
I'd say it's more likely a case of enumerators mishearing or misunderstanding the surname rather an actual name change. Many people could not write so it was up to the enumerator or registrar to write down he heard as their name.



Shane
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: cjstar on Saturday 31 October 09 10:45 GMT (UK)
Thanks Shane i just rung my mother and she said it could of been that her great granparents were unable to read or write so they could of wrote there name incorrectly on each cesus but also what you said makes a lot of sense
Thankyou
      Kellie  :)
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 08 November 09 18:57 GMT (UK)
Hi

I've been away for a week so only just picked up on your reply.  Yes - it's a transcription error and they didn't swap surnames.

The Goulding/Golden/Golding is very much down to illiteracy just as Shane has said above. 

If Thomas was unable to write/spell his surname, it would have been written by the enumerator and church officials as it was spoken 
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: rowlf on Tuesday 26 April 11 19:24 BST (UK)
Hi Kellie Ann, I too am trying to find the Golden family who lived in Burnley. The Thomas you mention is brother to Sarah Golden who married Daniel Devanney in Burnley in 1873. I would love to know more about Sarah's family and Daniels as I do not know where either came from.
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 26 April 11 21:58 BST (UK)
You really need copies of both marriage certs to confirm they had the same father

The 1891 census has Sarah Devaney 38 b Ireland - married - living in Barrowford with children Daniel 11 b Burnley and Mary 7 b Barrowford. 

1881 census indexed as Devoney - 5A Massey St Burnley

Patrick McDermot 66 b Roscommon
Bridget   60 b Sligo
Daniel Devaney 30 boarder b Yorkshire gen labourer
Sarah 28 b Yorkshire??
Ellen   8 b Wigan
Daniel   1 b Wigan
Patrick Nicholson 40 b Sligo
Bridget Moran 38 b Sligo
RG11 Piece 4147 Folio 155 Page 25
 
Births Ellen Devannagh December qtr 1873 Burnley 8E 219

Births Daniel Devanney September qtr 1880 Burnley 8E 191
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: rowlf on Wednesday 27 April 11 19:32 BST (UK)
 I have Daniel Devanney and Sarah Golden's marriage certificate and Sarah's father is Patrick. I have also seen the entry in the St Mary's R.C. church marriage entries and Sarah's mother is also Sarah. I have checked Thomas Golden's marriage in the church entries too and his father was Patrick and mother Sarah. So he and Sarah are borother and sister. In the church records Sarah's family were from Roscommon and Daniel's given as Clenmenny, Donegal. I have not been able to find any such place although there is a Clonmany in Donegal. Unfortuneately every county in Ireland is spilt into various townships and parish so unless a specific place is known it is almost impossible to trace a baptism or marriage.
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: cjstar on Saturday 30 April 11 09:38 BST (UK)
Hi Rowlf
Just got your message dont really know anything about Sarah or Daniel as it was Thomas Goulding where my direct link was as he had my G  Grandma Margaret Ellen Goulding i have visited her grave in Burnley,i have lots of info on that side if your interested as i was subscribed to Ancestry for a year so have many pictures and names on there.
KR
Kellie
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: rowlf on Saturday 30 April 11 18:53 BST (UK)
Hi Kellie,
     Thanks for your reply re the Golden family. I went to the Burnley library last week and found Thomas' marriage in the St Mary's church records and his father is named as Patrick and mother Sarah so I know for sure now he was brother to Sarah Golden who married Daniel Devanney in 1873. Any information you have of the Golden family before that date would be gratefully received.
Kind regards
Rowlf
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: cjstar on Sunday 01 May 11 08:00 BST (UK)
Hi Rowlf
I have no further info going back from Patrick and Sarah as the were born in Ireland, records are hard to come by from Ireland due to a lot of records being destroyed i believe
All i know is that they were born on the beautiful west coast of Ireland, and my hunch is that they were Catholics as they Christened my g grandma Catholic and inturn my Grandma and mum and me too.
It's a shame the records are limited in Ireland, i suppose there must be reatives (Goulding) still over there.
If i find any more info i will be sure to keep you updated
Wish you all the luck in your ancestry search
KR
Kellie
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: heywood on Sunday 01 May 11 12:09 BST (UK)
Hello,

I have Golden gt grandparents and they are variously listed as Goulden and Golding on my grandmother's birth certificate. It is quite a common name in Mayo so it would be difficult to go further back without specific places.
Rowlf, I wonder at the church record though which has Sarah from Roscommon  :-\
It could be that they come from a border area.

Have you seen 1871 RG10; Piece: 4147; Folio: 129; Page: 46
13 1/2 Charles Street Burnley (one of two cellars both numbered 13 1/2)

Thomas Goulding 28 ys Factory worker b Mayo
Margaret Goulding 27 ys b Sligo
Patrick Goulding 2 ys b Burnley
Mary Goulding 1 month b Burnley

1871  RG10; Piece: 4147; Folio: 130; Page: 47

19 1/2 Charles Street

Sarah Goulding widow 50 yrs housekeeper
Bridget Goulding 28 yrs cotton winder
Sarah Goulding 20 yrs cotton winder
Mary Goulding 5 yrs b Burnley

The adults have been dittoed as born Belfast but there are also Mayo people on same page and lots of dittoes - may be an error.

Are there any addresses on marriage certificates and do the witnesses help to confirm the relationship?

regards
heywood
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: heywood on Sunday 01 May 11 12:26 BST (UK)
There is also a marriage on Lancashire BMD and Free BMD

1872 Burnley

Bridget Goulden and Frank Dunlavy

In 1881 Sarah (mother) is a lodger with Thomas and family

1881  RG11; Piece: 4146; Folio: 127; Page: 4

Francis and Bridget Dunlavey with 3 young children and an 14 yr old Mary (who presumably is Mary Goulding from 1871- Bridget's child)
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: heywood on Sunday 01 May 11 12:41 BST (UK)
As said earlier, 1861 has Thomas and Bridget together as lodgers at 13 Charles Street.

Maybe, the two Sarahs came after 1861 census.
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: cjstar on Monday 02 May 11 12:12 BST (UK)
Thanks Heywood Thomas and Margaret Goulding were my G G Grandparents i have Margarets maiden name as Granegan dont know how i came across that born in Sligo
I also have there children as
Patrick
Mary
Sarah
George
and Margaret Ellen my Great Grandma it's been a year since being on ancestry and i may of linked this info from someone else who had a family link, but i did not get a bridget is this a sibling as well Heywood do you think?????
KR
Kellie
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: heywood on Monday 02 May 11 13:03 BST (UK)
Hello Kellie,

yes I think it looks very likely from the census evidence that Thomas, Sarah and Bridget are siblings and have a mother Sarah.
We know that Thomas gives Mayo as county of birth.
Belfast has been given at one time for both Sarahs but that was dittoed and therefore, could be very wrong.
Rowlf, has seen evidence in parish records about the family (including Roscommon  ??? for Sarah's birthplace)  and it would be good to check witnesses/ addresses and godparents from those records to see if that helps.
The difficulty with Mayo records is not so much that they are destroyed- many do exist but you need a townland and parish.
Griffiths Valuation which is dated around 1850s
 http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
has several Patrick Golden and variations.

I hope that you and rowlf have a bit more info now from Burnley and that perhaps rowlf may be able to fill in a few more details from those parish records.
heywood  :)
Title: Re: Thomas Goulding b.County Mayo moved to Burnley, Lancashire help
Post by: cjstar on Tuesday 03 May 11 18:45 BST (UK)
Thankyou Heywood  :)
Appreciate your responses and info i am very grateful..

KR
Kellie