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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: postylady on Friday 30 October 09 17:33 GMT (UK)

Title: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Friday 30 October 09 17:33 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone

I am after some info on the railways in Crewe, as my g grandfather was an engine fitter and his father was an engine driver, in the 1800's. On one of the census records 1911, it says he was Railway loco lif engine fitter, what's LIF, any ideas, or am i having a dim moment? It seems my g grandfathers sons (my nannas brothers) also worked on the trains, 2 were firemen and one was a cleaner at 18, so could have worked his way up.

Any information at all would be appreciated

Thanks in advance

Theresa
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Redroger on Friday 30 October 09 18:37 GMT (UK)
LIF loco inspection fitter, but that is just a guess. A fitter could not work his way up to be a driver as the two grades were in entirely different lines of promotion. A fitter was usually a fully apprenticed tradesman who had served a seven year apprenticeship somewhere in the engineering trade. In many respects as a result of their apprenticeship and tradesman status they were often not regarded as full railway workers, and had entirely different wage, promotional, and conditions of employment structures to the rest of the rail industry. He could only become a driver if he resigned from his trade and started again as an engine cleaner. To do this he had to be under 25, and frankly nuts! The footplate staff had this promotional structure, cleaner, cleaner passed for firing, fireman, fireman passed for driving and driver. Some lines had an intermediate grade of shunting driver. To join under 25, over 5feet 4inches, physically fit with 6/6 eyesight and normal colour vision. Subject to medicals throughout career at 5 yearly intervals and on promotion, which was by seniority subject to passing technical exams. I could go on, but don't want to bore the viewers. Will try to answer any questions.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Friday 30 October 09 19:15 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that,  is there anywhere were i can get photo's or details of workers on the lines, do you know?  I'm getting bored of just looking for people now, i want to add flesh to the bones, if i can.

Theresa
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Redroger on Friday 30 October 09 19:22 GMT (UK)
Some rail workers details are at the National Archives, Kew, staff records are limited for most companies, but the LMS of which the London North Western Railway, based at Crewe was part is one of the better represented companies. Try googling SSPL Prints, they have a very large number of railway photos, once there enter "Crewe" and see what comes up.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Friday 30 October 09 19:26 GMT (UK)
I'm on to it now, thanks again

Theresa
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: GlynneH on Saturday 31 October 09 21:43 GMT (UK)
Have you tried :

South Cheshire Family History Society (Crewe Group) http://www.fhsc.org.uk/  who are located in Crewe Library
or
The Cheshire Records Office at Chester http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/home.htm I know these have the staff records from Crewe Works covering that period'.
or
The staff history/roll of honour search of the LNWR Society  http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/SHG/index.php,

If you post the names your looking for I might be able to search a couple of places
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Sunday 01 November 09 08:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Glynn

I'm not sure if i'm barking up the wrong tree, but the names are:-

Samuel Cooper (father)
Arthur Gregory Cooper (son)
Charley Cooper  (grandson, and as it is spelt on the census)
George Cooper (grandson)
Alfred Cooper (grandson)

Charley George and Alfred were all born in Walsall though and not Crewe, this is why i'm not sure if i'm barking up the wrong tree or not.

Thanks for the links that you sent me, i will go on them later today, and thanks for the offer for searching a couple of places. Much appreciated


Theresa
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 01 November 09 13:15 GMT (UK)
Walsall, Birmingham is also on the same railway route, the London Northwestern Railway, so if the other detail seems correct I shouldn't let this deter you.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Sunday 01 November 09 14:16 GMT (UK)

Thanks for that Red, will keep trying to find anything out that i can.  Am going to try the links that Glynn sent me and see how i get on. 

When i contacted the Bedfordshire archives about another branch of my tree, they were very helpful and i found out a lot of information due to their help, so lets hope the same goes for the Cheshire Records Office.

Thanks again
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 01 November 09 14:23 GMT (UK)
Quite likely that a loco fitter was moved from Crewe to Walsall, for a period, e.g. setting up a new depot, and then moved back to Crewe on completion of the work. By no means unusual on any of Britains railways.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Sunday 01 November 09 14:52 GMT (UK)
Hi

I don't think he moved back to Crewe after Walsall, as this was where my nanna (his daughter)was born and my dad was later born here along with his brother and sisters, but my nanna's husband (the one in the photo) came from Grimsby. Gone as far as i can with him for the moment though, got his army records and now waiting to get in touch with relevant sources to see if he has any medals unclaimed, waiting for my aunty to write and give consent for me to try and find or aquire it or them.

Theresa
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 01 November 09 15:12 GMT (UK)
If he was in WW1 you can get sight of his medal card from the National Archive without consent.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Sunday 01 November 09 15:18 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that, yet again, he first joined up in 1922, so too young for the first war, but he did take part in the second war, and from what i can gather from family, we are all lucky to be here today, as he was left for dead on the beaches and his ship was torpedoed, he couldn't swim and the  next ship was also torpedoed.

Lucky man (or unlucky) depending on your viewpoint...don't think i would want to go through what they went through.

Theresa
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 01 November 09 18:21 GMT (UK)
Sounds as though he was a Dunkirk evacuee. Should be fairly well documented at the Imperial War Museum I would have thought.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Sunday 01 November 09 18:33 GMT (UK)
Think it's worth a visit then? I did go to South Staffs museum, but no record of him there, they said i would be better looking in The royal engineers Museum in Kent, but it is quite far from me, but i'm sure i'll get there one day.

Theresa
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 01 November 09 19:06 GMT (UK)
Why not try googling them first? Also try the National Army Museum, and National Archive, Kew.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Sunday 01 November 09 19:12 GMT (UK)
Yes you're right, he was at Dunkirk, it says he was ex BEF  on his army papers.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Sunday 01 November 09 19:16 GMT (UK)
never thought of googling them, thanks. Again
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 01 November 09 19:17 GMT (UK)
There is a National Archives entry Your Archives Evacuation from Dunkirk. Suggest you try that.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Sunday 01 November 09 19:48 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that. I will do.  Think we're running a little off track, if you'll pardon the punn  :)

Theresa
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 01 November 09 20:08 GMT (UK)
Not really Theresa, You are looking for the son of a Crewe railwayworker who happened to have been evacuated at Dunkirk. Not off topic at all.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Gaille on Monday 02 November 09 00:45 GMT (UK)
Have you tried :

South Cheshire Family History Society (Crewe Group) http://www.fhsc.org.uk/  who are located in Crewe Library
or
The Cheshire Records Office at Chester http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/home.htm I know these have the staff records from Crewe Works covering that period'.
or
The staff history/roll of honour search of the LNWR Society  http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/SHG/index.php,

If you post the names your looking for I might be able to search a couple of places

I found one or two of mine on the LNWR site, but it has thrown up a strange query.............. what on earth would a 'jeweler' be doing worjing at crewe works???

Gaille
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Monday 02 November 09 08:10 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for your help and information, much appreciated.

Theresa
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Monday 02 November 09 08:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Gaile

Who's the jeweler?? Is this a question thrown from your tree or are you trying to tell me something about mine :)

Theresa
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: GlynneH on Monday 02 November 09 13:13 GMT (UK)

I found one or two of mine on the LNWR site, but it has thrown up a strange query.............. what on earth would a 'jeweler' be doing worjing at crewe works???

Gaille

The Railway companys clocks & watches were repaired in Crewe Works, so he was probably employed there.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: postylady on Monday 02 November 09 18:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Glynn

Thanks for that info.

Theresa
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Redroger on Monday 02 November 09 20:19 GMT (UK)
I dodn't know of a watch repairer, jeweller at Crewe works, but there was certainly one at Doncaster, still employed into the 1980s, and a tradesman too, could make a watch as well as repair or assemble one.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Gaille on Monday 02 November 09 23:36 GMT (UK)
Hi Gaile

Who's the jeweler?? Is this a question thrown from your tree or are you trying to tell me something about mine :)

Theresa

One of mine.
I was looking at the list for Crewe & found one of my names, listed as a 'Jeweler'

Gaille
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Gaille on Monday 02 November 09 23:42 GMT (UK)
I dodn't know of a watch repairer, jeweller at Crewe works, but there was certainly one at Doncaster, still employed into the 1980s, and a tradesman too, could make a watch as well as repair or assemble one.

I hadnt thought of that - all the stations had their own clocks, as did the Guards, so it would make sense to have a jeweler on staff to maintain them.

This is the record I found

John Bebbington
Employment: 1913,  At Crewe, Jeweller

I am pretty certain he is one of mine.

I see a few 'family' names in there, on both of my maternal grandparents surnames.

Gaille
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Redroger on Tuesday 03 November 09 15:02 GMT (UK)
Have you ever thought of this, guards were issued with watches, yet for some strange reason known only to Railway Boards of Directors etc. drivers were not. Who was responsible for running the train to time. The driver, not the guard! Only sorted c1980 when all drivers were issued with watches.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: GlynneH on Tuesday 03 November 09 15:53 GMT (UK)
Have you ever thought of this, guards were issued with watches, yet for some strange reason known only to Railway Boards of Directors etc. drivers were not. Who was responsible for running the train to time. The driver, not the guard! Only sorted c1980 when all drivers were issued with watches.

The Driver, drives the Guards Train on the Signallers Railway. 

Signallers control the progress of the train and Guards ensure it leaves the station on time.

Originally part of the guards duty was to set his watch to the master clock at the relevant London Station and transfer that time to the station master at each station so the station clocks could be constantly kept to time.
Title: Re: Crewe Railway workers
Post by: Redroger on Wednesday 04 November 09 17:19 GMT (UK)
This of course takes no account of the length of signalling sections, or the distance between signal boxes which was why a driver needed a watch as it was possible to lose or gain time between boxes.