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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: sandgrounder on Wednesday 28 October 09 11:29 GMT (UK)

Title: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: sandgrounder on Wednesday 28 October 09 11:29 GMT (UK)
I've tried without success to find a family in Stockport, Cheshire. I know for certain that they were at an address in Dec 1911 but the head of the household is also shown at that address in the 1910 Directory of Stockport which is published on the Stockport website http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/Heritage/Directories/

The road is a long one, but the 1911 street search shows less than a dozen houses. I tried looking for some of the other residents shown in the directory and they weren't in the census either. I entered into a long correspondence with 1911 census, gave them the name of the family I was looking for, the link to the directory and the names of the other residents I'd searched for.

The upshot was they came back and said they couldn't find the family. I replied  "so basically what you're saying is that a large section of New Zealand Road, Stockport was omitted from the 1911 census?" To which I have had no reply!

I assume this is in fact the case and I expect many people will discover other streets are missing, too. Just thought I'd share this as a warning to others!
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Stone931 on Wednesday 28 October 09 17:08 GMT (UK)
Appreciated!  might well explain a wrinkle I have in Wales.

Thank you kindly and God bless.
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: lesleyhannah on Wednesday 28 October 09 17:23 GMT (UK)
I've had a similar problem. I put the name of the road in Hampton Hill into the address search, but it came up with no results. I'm sure the road and its inhabitants will be there somewhere, mistranscribed to a name beyond my imagination! Unfortunately I don't have a surname - I just wanted to search the street.

Do you have a particular surname sandgrounder?
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: dovecote on Wednesday 28 October 09 17:28 GMT (UK)
Likewise have missing family -  not found on the 1911 Census

Dovecote
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Redroger on Wednesday 28 October 09 17:52 GMT (UK)
Have you tried submitting Christian name, date of birth, place of birth, and a variety of punctuation marks for the surname? Worked for me I found Sydney Harold Luffman wrongly transcribed as Suffoma!
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: sandgrounder on Wednesday 28 October 09 19:10 GMT (UK)
I have tried every possible combination of first name, dob, occupation, place of birth, etc. you can imagine! But because there are so many houses missing from the street I think they must have been missed.

Surname is Williams!!!
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: lesleyhannah on Wednesday 28 October 09 22:46 GMT (UK)
I looked up the 1911 census, and can see what you mean. I could only find a handful of households in New Zealand Rd.
The census does give Enumerators' book images - the links are at the top of the page when you view an original image. They cover: List / Cover /  Details / Totals / Description . They are all free to view.
 
The 'Description' tab for the few New Zealand addresses gives details of the enumerator's 'patch'. If you knew the area it would probably make more sense, but it does say he covers only 287-291 New Zealand Road (he then goes on to St James's St). I'm assuming this means the rest of the road is covered by a different enumerator, whose writing has been mistranscribed, and therefore difficult to find. The only hope, I expect, would be to find someone else from that road (maybe from a directory) with a more searchable name than Williams!

Good luck!
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: lesleyhannah on Wednesday 28 October 09 23:00 GMT (UK)
a different enumerator's 'Description' of his patch says 'New Zealand Road excluding 289-291'.However the 'List' tab shows he included even numbers 2 -22, and none of these were Williams families. The rest must be there somewhere, but so far I haven't been able to work out where!
Lesley
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: sandgrounder on Thursday 29 October 09 10:44 GMT (UK)
If it was just the Williams I couldn't find I'd think they might have been away, but I searched for several people shown in the directory and couldn't find them either, so I think a large part of the street is missing.
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Redroger on Thursday 29 October 09 16:49 GMT (UK)
Time I think to try the Christian name trick I mentioned above.
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: sandgrounder on Thursday 29 October 09 18:09 GMT (UK)
Tried all sorts of combinations, Roger, but no luck. Am used to doing that with all the bad transcriptions on ancestry, so do it out of habit when I don't find what I'm looking for at the first attempt!
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: lesleyhannah on Thursday 29 October 09 19:13 GMT (UK)
Do you know what number they lived in? As I say, it's obvious from the enumerators' books that the road was split between different enumerators, so I still think the records are probably there, just mistranscribed.

Apart from the number, could you give us a first name to go with the Williams, or where he was born?
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Tsu on Friday 30 October 09 11:30 GMT (UK)
I had this happen to me.  I was searching for Cheshire Street and I had to find it searching with the wildcard like this cheshire* and then put Bethnal Green in the district. (FindMyPast)

It's because they were all called slightly different things.

So try searching for New Zealand* and then in district put Stockport.
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Parmesan on Friday 30 October 09 13:55 GMT (UK)
I get 6 houses using the wildcard

2, 4, 6 and 287, 289 and 291

there's obviously a major problem there.  Surely ALL the other houses cannot have been mistranscribed!
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: sandgrounder on Friday 30 October 09 14:21 GMT (UK)
Not been mistranscribed - just missing!
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Redroger on Friday 30 October 09 18:08 GMT (UK)
Or the book misfiled, put with another street.
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: lesleyhannah on Friday 30 October 09 19:52 GMT (UK)
Quote
Or the book misfiled, put with another street.

I suppose if that's happened, the only (very faint) hope would be someone knowing the area, who could pinpoint an adjoining street. Although the fact that this street was split up between at least 2 different enumerators isn't a hopeful sign.

It's annoying if you've paid a subscription for a particular family and the whole lot are missing though.

I've looked again, but had no luck. Hopefully someone with sharper eyes than mine will come up with something.
Lesley
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Redroger on Friday 30 October 09 20:18 GMT (UK)
Will try Lesley when I'm next at the archive. Don't know quite when though. Can't guarantee the eyes either.
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: andycand on Saturday 31 October 09 01:04 GMT (UK)
Hi Sandgrounder

Whilst New Zealand Road is quite long it doesn't appear, according to a 1911 map, to have many buildings and looking at Google Earth there are even less today. There was a concentration of buildings at the southern end between Turncroft Lane and Alpine Road but they are gone now. Looking at a 1910 directory they appear to be mainly shops. and comparing the names with a 1914 directory, most have changed hands.

In the 1901 census John W(arren) Gosling was living at 27 New Zealand Road (which was the Grey Horse Inn). In the 1910 directory he is still there and in the 1914 Directory the occupant is James Riddell Gosling, Beer & Wine Retailer who is possibly  the son of John Warren Gosling.

I'm not an FindMyPast subscriber so I can't check it out but a name search in the 1911 census does show a John Warren Gosling in Stockport, age matches 1901 census,  who hopefully is only about 4 doors down from the address you are looking for.

Andy

Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Parmesan on Saturday 31 October 09 09:23 GMT (UK)
Just looked on FindMyPast.

edit: removed info on advice - PM if you need to know!
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Roobarb on Sunday 01 November 09 23:38 GMT (UK)
Have you tried submitting Christian name, date of birth, place of birth, and a variety of punctuation marks for the surname? Worked for me I found Sydney Harold Luffman wrongly transcribed as Suffoma!

How do you do this Redroger? If I try it I get a message saying 'At least 1 characters that are not wildcards required for name searched'.
What am I doing wrong? ???
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Nick29 on Monday 02 November 09 10:13 GMT (UK)
If my memory serves me correctly, an anomoly with the search system allowed all wildcards in the early days of the 1911 census being online, but this is no longer possible.  You now have to have at least one letter in the name, but this does not necessarily have to be at the beginning of the name.

Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Roobarb on Monday 02 November 09 17:35 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately it doesn't work on one letter Nick  :(
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Redroger on Monday 02 November 09 18:21 GMT (UK)
I think that the point has been answered, and the loophole plugged by FindMyPast. As the 2 previous answers said it was in the early days of the release of the census, so I haven't tried it lately. There is a thread on here about the 1911 census which I got the detail from.
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: lookingforold on Monday 02 November 09 18:42 GMT (UK)
Have found a lot more of New Zealand Rd.

If you open the census page for No: 6; then open th enumerator's LIST, you will find numbers 2 to 22 N. Z. Rd
Likewise, open the census page for the high numbers, you will find other numbers. The prob seems that when you check the enumerator's List, thete are a lot of pages missing, One side shows page 12, the other is page 18. Perhaps the books were split when photographed, so it could be trial and error. I will see if I can find the 'missing' surnames. Pete.
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: les_looking on Monday 02 November 09 19:38 GMT (UK)
?? i have just put numerous first names only in the 1911 census,
and it deffo brings results,
that was on the official 1911 website, and on the FindMyPast site you can search with first or last,
better if you add a dob and place as it would bring up to many results,
obviously does not help your problem re the Stockport address, but if you do an address search for most
streets on FindMyPast pages it only brings up sometimes one number, so assume it has errors

doing a search for Williams in Stockport brings up 730 results, (just a guide as your not allowed look ups ;)) and then you will know who you are looking for
apology if you have already tried this

i am pretty sure i read somewhere some of the most damaged census pages were in manchester, if i am right again doesn't help you :(
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Parmesan on Monday 02 November 09 20:00 GMT (UK)
we're getting slightly off topic but I find if I add anything other than the name and dob it doesn't find anything.

Put in a second name and nowt - take it out find a list and there's your name complete with second name!
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Redroger on Monday 02 November 09 20:13 GMT (UK)
Strange things seem to have happened since I was last on FindMyPast. Will try again how I did it before when I finish on here tonoight, and report back tomorrow. By the way, thought the Manchester damaged pages were on the 1901, but could be wrong. Perhaps someone will clarify?
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Parmesan on Monday 02 November 09 20:27 GMT (UK)
By the way, thought the Manchester damaged pages were on the 1901, but could be wrong. Perhaps someone will clarify?

they are, 'synthesised pages' sometimes dodgy to load, well on my pc at least!
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Redroger on Monday 02 November 09 20:30 GMT (UK)
So it seems then that 1911 is complete, for Manchester at least?
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: les_looking on Monday 02 November 09 20:58 GMT (UK)
By the way, thought the Manchester damaged pages were on the 1901, but could be wrong. Perhaps someone will clarify?

Yep you are probably right, it was just an afterthought whilst typing that i remembered something about a census
being damaged,

re the off topic, sandgrounder originally posted as a warning re missing census pages, so any tips/help or info' people can post can only help others further down the line ;)

i am sure as more and more start the searching they will find missing stuff/pages, no different from the 1901, i know how frustrating it is, but all part of what we do lol
Title: Re: Missing from 1911 Census
Post by: Redroger on Monday 02 November 09 22:00 GMT (UK)
That's true, the more a thing is scrutinised the more any errors are shown up.