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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Myrrh on Tuesday 27 October 09 12:40 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if anyone can help to trace back from the 1841 census, in which Samuel Mortimer is 65, a Wool Sorter, born in the county. I'm stuck in Ireland for now, so unfortunately can't visit the area, look round libraries etc. Any help greatly appreciated. His son, my g.g.grandfather, Joseph Henry Mortimer, went on to be a partner in a cotton mill ownership, Ashworth & Mortimer, Drill and Tick Manufactuerers of 42 Spring Gardens, Manchester.
Many thanks
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Hi Myrrh
If you can quote the reference for the census that will help us to find the right family. Did he survive to 1851? Where were all his children born? As the 1841 census generally rounded ages down to the nearest 5 he could be aged up to 69.
Andrea
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:) Hello Andrea, thanks for your interest.
1841 census Public Record Office Ref: HO 107/1296/1. Borough of Bradford, Township of Horton. Is that what you need?
I believe the wife on this census, Ann, is not the mother of my g.g. grandfather Joseph. I believe Samuel was previously married to a Sarah Crabtree. On subsequent censuses all Joseph says about where he was born is "Bradford". All the other children on the 1841 are down as having been born" in the county."
Incidentally, Mary, is definitely the mother of Martha, and possibly of Elsa and William too, as I found her visiting her married daughter Martha in I think the 1881 census and Mary is still unmarried then.
Joseph Mortimer married twice, once in 1844, where his father is down as a Wool Stapler. He instigated a messy divorce and remarried in 1861 and on this certificate his father Samuel is "Deceased".
If I've missed anything, please let me know - It's good of you to take an interest.
Myrrh
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The 1841 does not give relationships so Ann could be a sister or even sister in law not necessarily a wife. The others are not necessarily children of Samuel on that basis either. Do you have other proof that they are? Marriage certificates etc?The births of the younger children will probably be on www.freebmd.org.uk I read it as Eliza by the way.
There are a lot of entries for Mortimers in Bradford on the IGI so it is difficult to establich exactly which ones may be correct.
Andrea
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Hi Andrea, there is a marriage record of a Samuel Mortimer marrying an Ann Greenhough on 15th June 1805, so I assumed that was them as featured in the 1841 census.
Also, according to the IGI, on 12th October 1816 a Samuel Mortimer married a Sarah Crabtree, but for the life of me I can't remember why I assumed he had remarried this Sarah, when on the 1841 census he still has someone called Ann living with him :- ??? I think it was suggested by another contact sometime, but I can't remember why I accepted it now.
All I know for certain is that Joseph Henry Mortimer was my g.g. grandfather, that he was born in Bradford and that according to Joseph's first marriage certificate, his father was a Samuel Mortimer, Wool Stapler. and this Samuel was alive in 1844 and dead by 1861.
I'm not really bothered about the younger childrens' parentage, but these 2 Samuel Mortimers are a worry - if they are 2....!
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Samuel marrying in 1805 and aged up to 69 in 1841. Joseph born when exactly? Have you looked at the parish register for wherever Samuel married? What is his occupation then? Witnesses are useful too.
Andrea
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Hi Andrea,
Joseph was born in 1821-2. He is registered as dying in 1886 aged 65. How would I look at the Parish Register? I wonder if I were to join the Bradford Family History Society they would be able to help me... Is it possible to order a certificate from the details on the LDS site? That would be great. I suppose the Marriage Certificate of Samuel Mortimer and Ann Greenhough would be best bet. :-\
Myrrh
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Hi Andrea,
I've just noticed that there is a research branch of the LDS in Cork City, which is my nearest city, so maybe, if their information is centralised, it would be a useful day out for me to visit and look through some microfilms etc.
Thanks
Myrrh
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You can't get marriage certificates as such prior to 1837. The only source of information is the parish register which is why I asked if you had looked at it. It will not give much information though. Only names and ages, though it may say full age, and whether of the parish or not (at the time of the wedding so not at birth) plus witnesses.
You can order films to search at LDS centres - they take a few weeks to arrive usually. They will also have burials on which can be very helpful. Many a tree has been based on someone who died aged 6 months! Looking at all the records for a name can help build up a picture of the wider family.
Bradford FHS may be very helpful - might even have done transcripts of the church registers.
I am just wondering why you chose that particular marriage when there are other possibles. Ann and Hannah are often interchangeable and there is a submitted birth on the IGI for a Joseph in Tong (part of Bradford) and a marriage for Samuel to Hannah Marjerrison in 1806.
Googling Tong brings up some cemetery records which have a Martha Mortimer dying in 1921 age 71. Possible if she did not marry? Just trying to widen the search a little! Probably causing chaos.... Ignore me if you think this is a red herring.
Andrea
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:o Oh my oh my!! Chaos is right!
But it was Mary Mortimer who stayed single, not Martha.
I am beginning to panic now though, and think I need to go back to the drawing board. I'm hanging on to the fact that this Samuel is a Wool Sorter and so was the one on the marriage certificate. Whether his wife was an Ann or a Hanna is the question now...(one of them) I think the Bradford Family History Society is going to be my best bet.
Thanks very much for bringing this query up....I think :P
Regards
Myrrh
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Sorry! I think you need to look for baptisms for the children and see if a mother's name is given. If you have followed them all through the census you can work out if the family stayed in one place and where the baptisms were likely to be.
Andrea
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:)Thanks, Andrea, I'll give it a go.
Myrrh
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In 1851 Ann is the head of the family age 74 and born Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk.
The others are all born in Horton
Mary daughter unm 37
Maria dau 27 is a widow and has the surname Jenkins
Grandchildren all Mortimer
Elizabeth 17
Martha 10
Samuel 2
Edward 7
Next door are James 22 and wife Emma
Looks as if you want whichever church covered the Horton area.
Andrea
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:D
Wow, thanks Andrea, that will get me going again...
Best wishes
Myrrh
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;D
Andrea,
Just had to let you know....Having the knowledge that this Ann was born in Suffolk, has allowed me to find out that:
Ann Pyerah, was christened in 11/4/1779 at Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, with a Father Joseph Pyerah and mother Elizabeth.
Then a Samuel MArtimer is listed as marrying a Nanny Pyrah in Bradford 1803.!!!!!So I think I had the wrong wives altogether!!!
Many thanks Andrea for your guidance.- I wonder where the name Pyrah or Pyerah comes from? Will have fun finding out. But will have to redo my records - again.
;D ;D
Myrrh
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So glad. I did see the Nanny marriage and wondered if that could be Ann. I am being very thick and cannot find your Joseph on later census. One of the problems is that there is another Joseph Mortimer b Bradford at about the same time. I have found him married to Augusta in 1871 but can't trace him back in 61 and 51, even looking for his sons doesn't help. I was wondering about the rags to riches story. He did very well for himself.
Andrea
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Hi,
Yes, Joseph is a bit elusive. The Augusta in the 1871 census is his second wife, (I think it was bit of a Jane Eyre story, as she had been working as a governess). Although perhaps she was a bit more sneaky than Jane Eyre. Joseph divorced my g.g. grandmother Hannah Clare Kennedy in 1860 and married this Augusta in 1861.
He divorced her for adultery, violence and drunkeness! But of course that's his side of things. I think he must have taken his new wife off for a honeymoon, which is why he and she don't feature in 1861. His sons, Joseph Jnr. and James, were put into boarding school and feature in the 1861 census there. My g. grandfather Arthur Henry,is staying with an Aunt, as he was too young.
Hannah, his divorced wife features all on her own in the 1861 census, in a lodging house. Sad. I don't know what happened to her, there are so many deaths for Hannah Mortimers, and Hannah Kennedy's come to that (she may have gone back to using her maiden name after the divorce). She could even have gone back to Ireland, where she was born - but as she had been in England since at least 1841, where she is seen with her brother Peter Kennedy in Stockport, I doubt she would have gone back after all that time.
Fascinating isn't it?
Myrrh
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What an interesting lot.
Andrea
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Hi Myrrh & Andrea
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A Daniel Mortimer died St Peter Bradford 1778 but no age give ( Could be this Daniel old man but could be an infant death aswell) but there could be an MI or grave at St Peter's churchyard with his age. Bradford Library or Bradford FHS searchs may have this and peanut cost to find out. :P (Addictive hunger for info)
Research ongoing
Dobby
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;D I'm so glad I asked!!
Thank you so much for this.
:-*
Myrrh
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Hi,
Well I've found out from FindMyPast that the Daniel who died in 1778 was a Blacksmith, which to me wouldn't fit with what seems to be a transfer of property such as land and cottage...
The only other possibility I could find is a Daniel Mortimer buried 23 March 1823 aged 93. But this was in Pickering, St. Peters and St Pauls, North Yorkshire. I suppose if he was that old he may have gone elswhere to live with relatives... This one would just about be old enough to be marrying Anna Rushforth in Bradford in 1747.
(There is a Daniel Mortimer born 1725, Thornton, Bradford....might be him I suppose) :-\
I've been sat here all day :o
Mary
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Hi,
Well I've found out from FindMyPast that the Daniel who died in 1778 was a Blacksmith, which to me wouldn't fit with what seems to be a transfer of property such as land and cottage...
The only other possibility I could find is a Daniel Mortimer buried 23 March 1823 aged 93. But this was in Pickering, St. Peters and St Pauls, North Yorkshire. I suppose if he was that old he may have gone elswhere to live with relatives... This one would just about be old enough to be marrying Anna Rushforth in Bradford in 1747.
(There is a Daniel Mortimer born 1725, Thornton, Bradford....might be him I suppose)
I've been sat here all day :o
Mary
HI Mary
Thorton boundary area will be close if not covering Thornton Road into Bradford-Heaton and maybe Horton also parts of north Halifax (Queensbury). Dates fit exactly 1725. Thornton Bapt for the 1747 Daniel Mortimer marrage to Ann Rushworth at Bradford. I will dig out this marriage 1747 and see their Sub parishes and baptism 1725. Looks good to me 90% Good.
The Pickering Daniel burial could be him if there is no Bapt and Marriage for a Daniel around Pickering.
I'll get back to you on this
You had done well in finding this info ! :D
for now
Regards Dobby :)
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That would be very kind, thank you. :-*
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Hi,
Just been trying to follow this thread, if you are sure about a Nanny Mortimer, then there is this death reported in the Leeds Mercury:
Saturday, March 26, 1859
Same day, (Tuesday last)aged 75, NANNY, relict of Mr. Joseph Mortimer, card nailer, Cleckheaton.
Tom
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HI Mary -You san search yourself
http://www.dserve.wyjs.org.uk/
Click Catalogue & enter Mortimer
http://www.calmview.eu/WY/DServe.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=Search.tcl
Just enter Mortimer on this one
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http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?fldResultMarker=21&fldSearchNumber=2075&SearchInit=1
Enter Mortimer in Word
Leave years -blank
Department or Series code: enter WO (wo =War office but only enter WO)
*************************************
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/
Enter what you like in Access to Archives
Ie:- Horton
Bradford
Mortimer
Fish & chip if you want
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:) I'll have a look at that lot, Dobby, thanks -my dog's called Dobby - hope you haven't got his ears :D
Tom, thanks for posting this. I've just traced it through on FindMyPast, as I knew she was alive in 1851, but she is actually still alive in the 1861 census, aged 84! But she doesn't make it to the 1871 :'(
She was certainly christened Nanny, and I'm surprised there is another - but mine seems to have gone through life calling herself Ann from then on.
Regards
Mary
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I realised later that it wasn't same when I noticed that her husband was found dead outside in the street in Cleckheaton.
Tom
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:) ooh, that's interesting - had he murdered her or something....?
Mary
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No, it was nothing like, it was in Sunday 27th, January, 1867, a Joseph Mortimer of Cleckheaton, known as Joe Cabbage, was found lying in the street outside the George Hotel, quite dead, having been there for some hours. It appears that a supper had been held in George Hotel, on Saturday evening at which Mortimer was present, and that he left there at about 12 o' clock.
Tom
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Hi
I blame the chef :-\ :o :) :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D I ???
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http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/htsearch?method=and&format=builtin-short&matchesperpage=20&sort=score&config=genuki&words=
ENTER DANIEL MORTIMER IN SEARCH ALSO OTHER IE;- HORTON/ HEATON/ SAMUEL MORTIMER
*********************************************************************************
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/northowram/NorthowramDickensonBurials.html
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Hi Mary
John and James was two father of families 1700 ish in Shelf and Horton And Clayton of Thorton owning proterties. John was into Cloth & Coal-mining.
NA4868
http://catalogue.wyjs.org.uk/record.aspx?src=DServe.Places&id=NA4868
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http://books.google.com/books?id=hekvAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA79&dq=daniel+mortimer#v=onepage&q=daniel%20mortimer&f=false
Daniel and James are living at Whichwell (or Whichfields) Soper lane end Shelf :D
in 1763, 1774, 1787 and 1789 Horton in Bradford.
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HI Mary
Night Shift West Australia Maridmarionoops Supplied this info for you
Daniel was a busy boy
=========================================
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:D :D :D :D ;D Oh my God!! Now you're just showing off! Am I never to get any housework done???
Thank you so much, Dobby, and thank you too to our Australian friend for her input. I'll take a closer look at trying to fit it together. After the vacuuming of course ;)
I see a copy of a will by a John Mortimer is mentioned - I'd love to see that, hope they have some kind of online service - I'll take a look - I'm stuck in Ireland....
I did look at some of these sites, and I found them fascinating, like the father who leased a house, shop and garden to his son for 1000 yrs on rent of one red rose a year. aaaah :)
Thanks again,
Mary :-*
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Don't think J Edgar Hover! :D had a Son called Vac ;D. but will have a look. :D
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Hi Mary
The object is to try and find the families that were producing siblings 1720/30 ish in and around Shelf/Horton/Wisbey/Heaton/Thornton(Clayton) in the South ring road of Bradford being the afore said list West to Northowram Halifax Queensbury area but also East of Wisbey towards North Brierley and Tong (Pudsey)towards Leeds West
U (bottom[South] of Bradford and follow modern ring road east & west )shape from Huddersfield Rd around Bradford south (Otsal Top)
See Map
from this find the James Dad or Daniel's son James or Brother.who was with Daniel at Sobey Lane end or Lower whichfield (wells) slack
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;D That's simple then :(
I have found the birth date of the John Mortimer, who married Judith and died in 1742 in Shelf. He was born in 1680, according to LDS, but no parents quoted. I will keep pootling off and on, but I'm away for a few days from Thursday - and I'm a volunteer BMD Transcriber - haven't done anything for a couple of weeks. Must do some before I go.
If I find a viable line of descent, I'll of course let you know. Thanks again.
Mary :)
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Hi, Mary
Don't know where to start really as the plot is more mysterious.
Clayton Thorton parish of St James has a Bap-Mar-Burials of a sort! on the fiche are a right old state of affairs with Bapts Marriages and Burials all mixed up. Pages upside down! some shooting off at angles! bits of pages torn off (or droped off) and stuck on a page but no ref to dates. But have found Danial Mortimer all mixed up in it also John of shelf.
X means unreadable letters
Also Bradford Cathedral Has a duplicate entry.
Sub Parish clayton/wisbey
XX June 1723 DaXxx of Daxxxl XXXx Mortimer of Bradford
Thornon St James
Well here goes Page 98 top left corner
-------------- Torn off "Clayton for Mary
Torn off .. Mortimer June 19 1722 or 3
,,,,,,,,,,,Torn off...........or wear...................
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Hi Mary
Read this Link Date March 1723 at Clayton Thorton St James Parish Church
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=423804.msg2888122#msg2888122
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OK Mary
Had full day at this at the Library
Samuel Mortimer bapt 20 Feb 1780 of John Mortimer Wibsey Weaver Bradford.
John Mortimer bapt 16th Nov 1748 Of Daniel Mortimer Junior :D of Heaton Bradford
(no Occ given)
John Mortimer Married by Banns to Martha Rookes 9th August 1779 in Bradford
St Peter Church and Both of the parish of Bradford
Danial Mortimer Bapt 7th June 1723 Father Daniel of Clayton Thornton Sub Chapelry of St Peter Bradford (Parish entry is very poor but just vaguely readable)
Daniel married & Ann Rushworth married at St peter Bradrord 20th Jan 1747 as IGI Parish
church register not on fiche but on B/Trans at York Borthwick institute Chapelry unknown yet
Father Daniel sn'r needs more Study as Bapt unknown and I think married twice first unknown to a Deborah
and She died 1723 March (son Daniel birth maybe) Daniel 2nd marriage to Dorothy Scott 2nd Dec 1724
There is no record of Daniel Senior at Bradford or Clayton prior to 1723 and suspect Northowram
Halifax may hold this info
foot note:- St James Thornton Chapel has its own little parish register that looks like it been through the Wars and in a right old state of affairs with scribles ( Clerk trying to work out the year April to March) upside down entries of events other than BMD's also little torn note's stuck on with a few mouse holes & ink blots.(Looks like my school books age 10.)
Dave
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:o Hi Dave, This is so kind of you. (I think you must have some Jack Russell Terrier in your F. Tree ;D )
So I'm looking for Daniel's marriage to Deborah and his birth. You'll have me back to Charlemagne yet 8)
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http://www.archive.org/stream/nonconformistreg00heyw/nonconformistreg00heyw_djvu.txt
http://www.archive.org/stream/manninghamheaton00cudwuoft/manninghamheaton00cudwuoft_djvu.txt
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=4ed70b69e272f2e6d4eaa9b7e545be61&action=printpage;topic=83143.0
LINKS ABOUT LOCATIONS and MORTIMER'S IN GENERAL
Hi Mary- Home work over Xmas
Carolus Magnus -No'p -Franks or Normans- NEVER
Maybe the Vikings-maybe but Saxons most likely or Kelt's.
........................................
LANDS west to North West of Bradford
See Google map for Shelf then find Allerton and connecting roads.
Enter ' Whichfield, Queensbury' first
-then -'Whichfield, Queensbury, Mortimer ' in google search.
Put Danial Mortimer in the Search engine the afore said archive in York's 'Cottages at Allerton &(Cum) Wilsden' and Google books as afore said ' Soper Lane ends Whichfield".
Black Smith is mentioned also your Daniel Death is a Blacksmith FindMyPast!
You'll find the area of Allerton and Whichfield Shelf.
The point of this is we are looking at Whichfield Hall Shelf Queenbury Halifax & Bradford area and Allerton & Widsden Queensbury!Northowram also to Manningham & Shipley including Cottingley.
Dave
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Phew ::) All right allready :P
Will see if I come up with anything over Christmas.
Thanks again for your efforts, and Merry Christmas to you and all Yorkshire researchers. ;)
Mary
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Hi,
Well I've found out from FindMyPast that the Daniel who died in 1778 was a Blacksmith, which to me wouldn't fit with what seems to be a transfer of property such as land and cottage...
The only other possibility I could find is a Daniel Mortimer buried 23 March 1823 aged 93. But this was in Pickering, St. Peters and St Pauls, North Yorkshire. I suppose if he was that old he may have gone elswhere to live with relatives... This one would just about be old enough to be marrying Anna Rushforth in Bradford in 1747.
(There is a Daniel Mortimer born 1725, Thornton, Bradford....might be him I suppose) :-\
I've been sat here all day :o
Mary
as requested
Parents died and left property to siblings that move on in married life to other local villages and farmers(small holding)& Home weaver, part time Farriers/Blacksmith (local farms) who served local farmers horses
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Sorry, don't understand your last post??? - "as requested " -
I loookedat all that stuff, but I couldn't see the bit about Blacksmiths - probably looking in the wrong place - will have another look - don't worry.
\Mary
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your too fast Mary as requested post! re-read add bits
There is mentioned with Daniel Moritimer a Blacksmith and Richard or James -or a Blacksmith son of Daniel Mortimer in the Archive Yorkshire online search engine.
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Ps;- Town and Village Blacksmiths different from remote farm farriers serving a few farmers around a radus from his own farm. Remember these were hill farms served with cart horses 17 century early 18th century. (1700)the boundry area maps. Ie Northoweram parish & Queenbury covered a large area tolaly difference from Northowram Village town as then.
Thus it may be put down by a Clerk with no idea of the difference between farm farriers and Village Blacksmith. as
Joe Blogg Blacksmith Northowram = Village Blacksmith from Northowram village
:-\
Tom Bloggs Blacksmith Northowram - Local farrier to farms in the Northowram area farm land Hills.
These people were Illiterate and could not correct! the difference :D
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Next year- May take some time to check these!
http://www.archives.wyjs.org.uk/downloads/Collections%20Guide%201.pdf
Anglican Parishs that Daniel maybe as Bap-Mar-Death
BMD'S
***Elland, St Mary 1559-1943 1559-1967 1559-1939 1764-1975
****Huddersfield,St Peter 1562-1995 1562-1989 1562-1925 1895-1975
**Bingley, All Saints 1577-1985 1577-1992 1577-1936 1807-1993
**Keighley, St Andrew 1562-1962 1562-1952 1562-1936 1767-1991
**Illingworth, St Mary 1695-1962 1697-1984 1695-1942
Birstall, St Peter 1558-1951 1558-1940 1560-1945 1754-1948
Dewsbury, All Saints 1538-1950 1538-1999 1538-1999 1796-1991
****Halifax, St John the Baptist 1538-1977 1538-1981 1538-1937 1785-1842
**Hartshead, St Peter WDP31 1612-1968 1612-1973 1612-1964
Heptonstall,St Thomas 1599-1904 1593-1986 1593-1898 1754
Rastrick, St Matthew Brighouse 1719-1970 1839-1985 1798-1880
Sowerby Bridge, Christ Church 1709-1949 1730-1994 1821-1986 1895-1991
Sowerby, St Peter 1668-1982 1711-1992 1643-1954 1869-1987
Thornhill, St Michaeland All Angels 1580-1986 1580-1987 1580-1986 1787-1989
Todmorden,Christ Church 1675-1979 1669-1979 1666-1969 1821-
Todmorden,Cross Stone 1678-1931 1837-1949 1678-1970
Tong, St James 1550-1979 1550-2003 1550-1976 1813-1973
Wakefield, All Saints 1613-1984 1613-1984 1613-1964
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Daniel bapt 22 May 1680 at Wibsey Church Shelf Register Father Richard Mortimer :D
Daniel (first marriage) Married 1708 in St Peter's Cathedral Bradford in the Marriage index but the actual Marriage entry a Single line entry is unreadable on fiche. :'(
Regards Dobby :)
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http://www.calmview.eu/WY/dserve.exe?&dsqIni=dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=7&dsqSearch=((text)='richard%20mortimer')
This should tell all abut Richard but if the link comes up blank enter Richard Mortimer in search
Wisbey register dies up at 1650 or before
Bradford Maybe for his bapt
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Hi Mary
Copies of Parish Registers of events have been sent to you by curtsy of WYAS for Private use but single entries can be put on the internet tree. Call their Collections Manager for advice on the other doc's
Dobby
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John Mortimer Will 1742 Deceased Shelf
Brief description from my reading on this will
John Mortimer of Shelf -Clothier and Woolstapler. -has ref to property at Clayton-Giles Hill Shelf and Cottages etc in Lightcliffe Hipperholme Brighouse.
Executor and son Richard.
Phone Halifax WYAS quote ref number WYC-1292/1/1/10
ask for IAN -------------order a copy ---------if you want.
About £2 all in-with postage and copy fee.
A Private Hand written Will
Not a deeds Will or probate Will----hence small charge.
Dave
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I'll post any info and ref numbers as and when any found! over time on visits to Halifax next year.
Deeds,(£8 a copy of a or per deed or £32 with plans also £8 for Deeds Wills) Wills, Parish registers -archive refs or your own findings and you can order copies as you want! PR's & Archive refs about £1 cheaper for more than one. from Ian at Halifax Library /Archives Yorkshire with postage.
Also the WYAS offices as your other surnames
Wakefield holds all deeds and headoffice of WYAS
Probate pre 1857 are at York Borthwick centre York Uni
and Allegation by licence bond marriages
Find phone numbers on the web search of the places
http://www.kirkheatononlineparishclerk.com/mirfield/Mirfield%20Wills.htm
1831 July SHEARD of MIRFIELD
about 17th July 1756 between Richard MORTIMER of Shelf parish of Halifax,
Clothier of the one part and James DYSON of Huddersfield, Grocer, of the other
part, of among other hereditaments all that messuage or dwelling house in Clayton
parish of Bradford
Well that wraps up my efforts for now! Merry Xmas and A Happy New Year! everybody or readers of this post
Regards
Dave and Donna
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Mary
Daniel Mortimer Will
Google search engine
Enter -A2A or Access to archives ( National Archives)
next!- in the dialog search box top line
Enter exactly. ------ Daniel Mortimer Shelf -
7 doc's will come up
Whichwell. Shelf Horton and Clayton
They are in the Savall papers held at Nottingham Archives and contact them for copies if you want any again without search charges are cheap to obtain on known info dates and ref numbers.
There are a lot of Yorkshire papers held at Nottingham and Lichfield Staffordshire Archives
Dave
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I ordered a copy of Daniel Mortimer's will of 1775, and here is a summary of who is mentioned, in case anybody else is looking for a lead on any Mortimer they may be seeking:
Daniel Mortimer of the Lordship of Tong, Yeoman. Bequeaths to his ELDEST son John dwellinghouses etc in Allerton within Wilsdon for his natural life. But on John's death, they would pass to Daniel's youngest son James AND HIS HEIRS, which would mean that John's son (who I think was a Samuel b 1780) would not have inherited this. Other legatees mentioned, are sons Samuel, Daniel, and Richard, married daughters Mary, wife of Daniel Bateman and Hannah, wife of William Davy and a youngest daughter Martha. James also inherited property at Shelf and Heaton. (Both Martha and James were under 21 at the time of this will).
There was also mentioned other property in Allerton and Wilsdon, which had been previously leased in 1765 to Richard and his heirs. It still seems strange to me that someone who owns several properties couldn't sign his own name, but made his mark. Anyway, I hope there may be something of interest to others contained in this.
Myrrh
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There is alot more information in repositories but I was request to stop! researching ??? people only get one shot with me.
Dobby
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I was indeed happy for you to stop, after helping me so much, and after seemingly having difficulty finding a baptism for Daniel Snr - it would appear he was born outside your normal area of easy access. I did email two or three archives but no luck.
I am sure there are others whom you will be able to assist with more easily accessible information. My purpose in posting this regarding the will was as stated, in case it could be of use to anyone else.
Thanks again for your past assistance.
Regards
Myrrh
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Maybe repositories in Nottingham and the National Archives at Kew maybe able to help you.
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Yes, thanks. Nottingham was where I got the will (and a lease) from. They were very efficient and it only cost £4.40, which for 5 pages of A3 posting to Eire, I thought was excellent.
Good hunting.
Myrrh
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Hi
in retrospect! I though I should bring this to your attention.
This link may help or advise you in your future Quests in Yorkshire!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,427216.0.html
Only if you take it futher the you will have to PM as thread is locked
Best of Luck
Dobfarm.
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I was at Wakefield WYAS Archive on business this afternoon and had a hour to spare so went into the register of deeds room!, I had a look at the deeds index volume 1704-1714 and there are no deeds in the Mortimer surname of any first name. Then had a look in the deeds Will book register 1689 to 1858 and found an amendment and final Last Will and Testament of Daniel Mortimer amendment to his 1775 Will.
West Yorkshire Archives Service Wakefield - Yorkshire register of Deeds office
Year 1778 Volume C B Page 305 Deed Will number 481
If you want a copy of this Will - it will cost £8 plus P&P.
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Typical! When I've just transcribed the will I had. £8 is a lot for a codicil! From looking at the original, I would guess it has something to do with his son, Richard Mortimer, to whom in the original will he only left 1 shilling, when all the other children were getting several pounds, or property. Richard had to pay back £30 before he got his share of the residue. He had already been given a property in 1763, so I suppose the £30 was to compensate his siblings???
Anyway, I'm more interested now in finding out what happened to Hannah Mortimer. she was married to Daniel's great grandson Joseph. He divorced her in 1860 - early '61. She is on the April 7th 1861 census, alone, as a boarder,("married") having being deprived of her husband, position, and 3 sons. Joseph remarries in November 1861 - to the Governess....and says he is a "Widower". I've already spent £7 on a wrong guess from the 4 Hannah Mortimers and 1 Hannah Kennedy (maiden name) it could be - but then maybe Joseph was lying on the certificate, rather than say "divorced". Whatever her faults, I can't help feeling sorry for her. Maybe I'll have another go when I've given it a little time - and forgotten how much I've already spent on this business!!
Myrrh
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Hello
Yes can be expensive. I didn't mention any of the content of the Will as to to leave you too have the enjoyment of the original copy but now will reveal it was only waffle over property and no extra names added or subtract. (To what you gave above)
'Gen*s Reun*ted' have 4 trees with Daniel Mortimer Sr bapt 1696 Bradford WY. I think their trees stop with him but he would be 30 in 1726 marriage being not a guess age as married age 21= bapt year leaving guess at bapt 1705 (The early Bradford parish registers are in a right old state though !!!!!)
With no Mortimer's having Deeds to property 1704 ( ALL West Yorkshire earliest deeds year recorded) to 1714 your theory of Daniel SR born/bapt outside West Yorkshire would fit. (Reason I looked at the deeds)
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Post 1837 is not my Forte (I'm not subscribed to census websites [do odd ones as library free census access :( ]as archives pre 1837 is my Fun )
This link= They would love your Hannah brickwall)
FUN!!!! hey! they may find sumat !! :D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,358572.0.html
Dave
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Thanks again for your help - might give it a go.
Myrrh
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Daniel Sr Bap and his dad is now!!! a personal issue with me now! to find! like a itch in the middle of ones back one can't quit reach.................itch.
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Gen*s Reun*ted
A Sally has Hannah Kennedy born Ireland and Joseph Mortimer born Bradford
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Hi, Yes thanks, am in touch with her - she is my grandmother's brother's granddaughter.
Myrrh
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OK! All I can think of! Hannah moved back to Ireland or Died there before 1860/1 Joe's 2nd marriage or later years after a divorce.
Dobs
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One day I'll find out ;)
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Hi All
For other readers or Mortimer researchers.
I'm in direct contact by email with Myrrh so as above.
It seems most like Daniel sr Mortimer born/Bapt around 1700+/- at Thornton missing years register.
So how do we find his Mum and Dad's names? Well we know that he died 1778 at St Peter burial register and there could be a gravestone inscription epitaph that will give his age and maybe a family grave as they seem to have had wealth and parent grave stones near, then the father of Daniel sr may have had a Will. Then the last hope is Deeds as transfer of joint ownerships in the family mentioning the late or even alive then father those years also may say a sister bother or cousin mentioned.
Tough nuts do crack. ;D
Dobby :D
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Hi Myrrh
More PHEW!
Draw a line on a map from Clayton through (thornton)-Shelf-Wyke(Wibsey) Scholes Hartshead to Robertown ( all scholesmoor) on a map.
CHRISTOPHER MORTIMER Marriage to SARAH WILBY 07 JUN 1676 Birstall,
Yorkshire, England
To had to your Possibles and Paper Plan,
From Wills location only no direct link to Daniel only Properties
Based on John and Elizabeth Wills Mention Nephew Firth Of Shelf
They had property at Shelf and Scholes moor
submission iffy
John bapt 4th of may 1684 father Christopher Mortimer Robertown scholesmoor Birstall
Theres a submission of John born circa about 1680 Shelf died 1742 as his will
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(Daniel's Dad???? Seculation only)Micheal Bapt 13 JUN 1686 Father Christopher Mortimer
Married Grace Firth 21 April 1712 at Birstall
*******************************
?? Richard Bapt 3rd March 1677 of Christopher Scholes Birstall
Died 12 May 1701
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Daniel Senior died 1778 as the Will Sibling
Thornton early registers missing 1700 -1720 Bts also Missing
????John Bapt 1710-1715 Circa Thornton Married Sarah Leach 2nd Oct 1732
James Mortimer born 1717 circ Prob Thornton of Daniel
married Sussanna Shread Scholes Birstall 10 Nov 1742
Samuel of Daniel Mortimer 21 Jan 1721 Wibsey /Wyke marriage unknown
Daniels first wife Debrah Mortimer died march 1723 in Thornton register Wool Cloth entry. marriage Date and Debrah's maiden name unknown
Daniel Mortimer sr remarried Dorothy Scott 2nd Dec 1724 Bradford
Mary of Daniel Mortimar 24-sept 1725 Clayton in Thornton
Married Mr Daniel Bateman date unknown from Will
Daniel Mortimer Junior Born of Thornton Circa IgI Flim 1725 ish Marriage 20th Jan 1747 Bradford to Anna Rushworth
Hannah of Daniel Mortimer bapt 14 JUN 1730 Wibsey & Wyke
Married Mr William Davy date unknown from Will
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I came across a partial transcription of Bradford Parish Church Burial Index, which began in 1642 with Richard Mortimer of Clayton, but only went up to 1670, ending with John Mortimer and Gennet his wife, of Clayton.
I just need to connect the two ends...... :(
Myrrh
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I spend the day at Bradford Library and Archives yesterday
Speculation on my part ** and all info input only
Findings
FindMyPast National burials Yorkshire Mortimer Daniel age 93 **burial 1823. (Need to pay to find more info)
Could be**
Daniel Mortimer Junior born 1725 to 1730 (Death age 93**) married Ann Rushworth 1747 burial 1823 Deputy Constable of Manningham 1778 to 1823** father of John bapt 16 NOV 1748 of Daniel and going by the start year could have taken over this position from is dad Daniel Mortimer senior in 1778
The 1778 amended of 1775 Will of Daniel seems to be the Daniel senior (as does Daniel 1763 deed with youngest ;) son Richard!) Daniel Jr, Samuel** and Richard (Below b 1721)are mentioned as your above names in the 1775/8 Will (This 1778 death is not Daniel Jr married 1747 father of John of (Dad) Samuel 1780 bapt but is John's granddad)
Samuel ** was bapt 1721 in Wibsey of Daniel Mortimer Chapel lower moor Bradford before the 1725 Dorothy Scott marriage to Daniel Mortimer senior and Debrah Mortimer wife of burial died 2nd March 1723/4 (year ending March 1724) Thornton- Clayton again just before Dorothy Scott marriage.
There is also Sarah of Daniel Mortimer of Thornton Clayton bapt 2 nd Jan 1689
There is no mention of Daniel Mortimer Death/Burial 1778 in (Mr Blackburns) MI's/Dedecations of any Church/chapel in the Bradford area only the St peter (Cathedral from 1926) Bradford parish entry Blacksmith.
There is no mention in the Marriage by bonds licence allegation marriages index 1680- to-1750
Therefore there is little chance of finding Daniel senior Bapt entry or his father as it seems both Wibsey and Thornton registers stop in 1692 from consistant entries each year to odd years Bapts -Marriages- burials 1700, 1705, 1710 and 1715 restarting as normal 1717 these are not missing but are blank pages. This seems as if some event stopped them! but left pages blank to fill later in both registers.
LAST HOPE
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Only a Will mentioning Daniel Senior will find his father, also the chance Daniel had his property left to him which seems likely as he signed his name X on the 1763 deed and labourer /blacksmith assistant > Hammer man (No apprentice records of Daniel Mortimer Blacksmith)-meaning he would not have made is own fortune son James was the Blacksmith and dad Daniel sr helped him ***
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???Ahh well - where there's no Will, there's no Way!!! ;)
Thanks again for your efforts. Great detective work.
Myrrh
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Many bunders, hit and miss and Luck! -not the Orthodox way but one gets results this way. Luv-ly place Bradford and get cheap/part free nosh up for pensioners at the town hall as long as its student cook attempts.
Luv It!
Dave
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Hi
It seems there were 3 Daniel's by his Will Vol 69 1713 to 1714 Probate of Yorkshire- Daniel Mortimer of Horton Cum Clayton W 61-64 (wife Deborah Mortimer as Thornton register died 1723/4 in Clayton Father of Sarah bapt 1689 in Clayton)
Think it dries up here! Brother of John? wife Elizabeth.
Records are just too poor.
Yorkshire WILLS INDEX starts 1698 Borthwick Insitute York Uni Actual Wills held there.
Deeds Index start 1704 WYAS Wakefield Deeds held there
One tried :-[
bye zee bye
D/F
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;) Never mind. It has been really interesting, and has given me a feel for the kind of roots I have in Yorkshire. Three Daniel Mortimers, so long ago, with such poor records - bad for the health!
Best regards
Myrrh
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I would take your tree back on property & location in Clayton as Daniel (1) father of Dan (2) sr & Wife \Deborah mid-late 1600's birth father :D assummed :D of Daniel sr (2) Married 1826 to Scott Grand father Of Daniel (3) Jr Married Rushworth 1747- father Of John Bapt 1749 married 1769 father of Sam bapt 1780.
Brother of (Dan [1]or could be his Father aswell) John 1742 Will having same Property in Clayton
Daniel (2) died in old age 1778 death & Will and brother John died in (middle age)died 1742 Will
Their assummed Dad either Richard and John in WYSA catalogue together mid 1600's
back to
'Thomas De Mortimer' of ****** ;D Clayton :D
Dave-D/F
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If anyone is still interested in researching the Mortimer family, they are in my family tree and I've written quite a bit about them on my blog (search under 'Mortimer'):
http://mprobb.wordpress.com/
John Mortimer of Shelf (1681 - 1742) was my 7 x great grandfather. I have a copy of his will, as well as a number of other family wills.
The Richard Mortimer mentioned in a post in this thread was John's son. The arrangement with James Dyson of Huddersfield makes sense - as the latter was his brother in law. Richard's brother John M junior died in Huddersfield in 1747 and his widow Mary later married James Dyson.
Martin Robb
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Hello Martin. Phew, you have a lot of info on your site! Well done. We seem to be distantly related, but how, is anyone's guess!
Regards
Mary
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Thanks! If you find out any more about the Yorkshire Mortimers, please let me know. I'm still trying to work out why my ancestor Joseph Holdsworth (grandson of John Mortimer of Shelf) moved down to Essex in the mid 18th century. Still a lot of work to do on this, I guess...
Martin