RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Pat R on Monday 26 October 09 10:47 GMT (UK)
-
Could somebody help me? I'm not particularly computer literate!
I would like to know who was living at 20 George Street, Hanover Square, London on 1871 census, but I just don't seem able to do it!
Best wishes
Pat R
Very grateful for any help
-
You need a street index.
Rg10 96 fol 24-31
Pauline
-
Pat,
Looks like just two servants living there:
An**ice Lewis 22 unmar cook b Hereford
Ellen Tamber(?) 20 unmar serv b Oxfordshire Benson
Previous residence, number 19 is headed by James Ruttledge widr 61 Physician University Glasgow b Middx Hampton COurt
daur Florence
plus servants
At No 21 are 3 more servts
then at 22 is another doctor.
So it kindof looks like three residences which may be part of the same household. SOmeone may be able to have a look and give their opinions. ;)
-
I havent looked but i wonder if the houses occupants were at their summer residence for the census date? and just left 2 members of staff there to kep the house running :-\
-
Yes, next to Annie Lewis' status it is given "servant" but then in small letters "in charge".
-
Thank you everybody for your replies - as I said I'm not very good at this, where do I find a/ a street index, and b/ how do I find out who actually owns the house?
Best wishes
Pat R
-
Pat, what names were you hoping to find at Number 20? Any of those mentioned above?
Where did you get the address from?
-
Hi,
My 4 x great grandmother, Ellen Marsden died at 20 George Street Hanover Square on 14th June 1870. She was born in Bolton, lived in Manchester, and is buried in Devon.
There are several branches of the Marsden family I have'nt managed to trace, and I was just wondering if she was staying with relatives when she died as per the death cert (where I got the above info from) she had been ill for less than 1 week.
So I thought if I could find out who owned the house it may give me a clue.
Best wishes
Pat
-
what does her occupation say on the death certificate?
-
Hi Toni,
She was a widow, aged 70 - her late husband was Richard Marsden, an extrememly wealthy merchant from Manchester (that 's why I thought it would be a good idea to find out about the house)
Best wishes
Pat
-
Sometimes when men died women would find themselves having to take up poisitons in a household maybe a governess for example so thats why i wondered if perhaps she was working for the family when she died
Governess' would often find poisitons away from their home towns.
but as the death cert.gives no occupation it is more likely that she was visiting.
I would suggest the next thing would be to do as you say and check the directories and the electoral roll for that perios to see if you can see who was the householder (head of house)
You had to qualify to be able to vote though so depending on who owned the house and who was the head of household they may not be listed.
-
In the 1861 census it is hard to read but head of household at 20 George Street looks like Herman G***ner, wife Annie, a boarder Charles B? Fontana, commercial clerk. I think the couple are Herman Gwinner and Annie Cohan who married in Liverpool in 1857. In 1871 I think they may be in Brighton on the Kings Road (on holiday, looks like - RG10/1085 folio 48 page 42) so they may be still at the 20 George Street address.
Another possiblity is the doctor John B. Potter who was living at that address by 1873 as shown in this letter he wrote:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/2/678/770.pdf
(probably John Baptiste Potter)
In 1871 he's in the area lodging at 56 Conduit Street with another medical family.
And then books.google.com suggests (from the Journal of the Society of Arts, Volume 13) that in 1865 Albert Westhead and Edwd S Westhead were living there. Now he is interesting because I think this is a Manchester link - in the 1871 census there's Albert Westhead, 28, an undergraduate at Cambridge living with his parents Edward and Harriet R and married sister Catherine Hare(?), all of them born Manchester but at that time living in Surrey.
The parents of Albert appear to have been Edward Westhead and Harriet Royle Chappell, in case those names ring any bells.
-
Hello Pat
Who was the informant on the death certificate? If it was someone present at the death (as opposed to the Coroner), there might be a clue there.
Polarbear
-
Hermann Gwinner is the householder listed in the 1869 PO Directory
-
Hello everybody,
Thank you for all your replies - I don't think Ellen Marsden was financially in a position where she had to work.
Her son-in-law was the notifying person on the death cert (He was a vicar living in Devon)
None of the names mean anything unfortunately, perhaps she had gone to Lndon to visit friends or perhaps see a Doctor!
Best wishes
Pat
-
Hermann Gwinner was a banker, managing the London branch of the International Bank of Hamburg in 1870. In 1872 he was appointed managing director of the International Bank of Hamburg and London Limited.
-
looks like he moved in 1872 with his new appointment then Mr Potter became resident in 1873
-
Hi Everybody,
It looks like Hermann Gwinner was the owner at the time of her death - perhaps he knew her late husband, a merchant, who had branches all over the world, and probably in Hamburg.
Best wishes and thank you
Pat
-
The death duty registers index (if I've got the right person) shows her residence as Buckerell and her executor as Ellen Mayne of Romansleigh. Exeter folio 647.
-
Hi Shaun,
Yes, this is the right person, could you tell me where these death duty registers indexes are?
Best wishes
Pat
-
I have only just spotted this "chat" by doing a google search but I would love to get in touch with the person interested in Edward Westhead and Harriet Royle as I have found some very interesting records relating to their family. It was a long time agao that this message was posted but if anyone is still interested, please get in touch.
Kathy
-
If you click on the right hand 'page' looking icon underneath the member's name, you can send them a personal message 'pm'. They should get an email telling them of the message.
Josey
-
I too would like to be able to search a census by address, but nobody has yet answered the question.
"You need a street index. RG10 96 fol 24-31" is literally encrypted !!
Does anyone feel able to share the secret to finding the street index and then deciphering the code ?
JMB
-
Have a look at Valda's excellent guide to the censuses in the Census & Resource board.
Briefly:
Census records have a reference to identify a specific page.
The first part indicates the year
HO107 = 1841 & 1851
RG9 = 1861
RG10 = 1871
& so on to RG14 = 1911
Up to & including 1901 each year is divided into pieces which was the area covered by one enumerator, the person who went from house to house to copy down the forms filled in by the householder - the 96 of the reference given earlier
Each piece is divided into folios - the 24 of the reference
Each folio has 2 pages [but not numbered 1 & 2] = the 31 of the reference
Hence RG10 96 24 31
Means 1871 piece 96 folio 24 page 31.
Each piece has at the beginning a list of streets covered by the piece, referred to as the street index. It was a description of the route taken by the enumerator. I have not checked but I suspect the reference given is for the street index covering the street requested in the first post.
The 1911 census was the first where the form completed by the householder was collected & archived.
Hope this helps.
-
JMB - you can search the censuses by address on both findmypast.co.uk and thegenealogist.co.uk
-
The National Archives has a census street indexing project here
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Your_Archives:Historical_Streets_Project
which could be useful if you don't have a sub to FindMyPast or the Genealogist
-
josey/ShaunJ/dawnsh,
A very belated "thank you" to all for your input.
Regards,
JMB