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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: JenPowers on Thursday 22 October 09 03:40 BST (UK)
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:)
William Ryan b 12 July 1858 County Tipperary
~ family notes include Glenough District, Glenough Rossmore, Cashel
Immigrated 1878 New York, USA
m 1884 Arizona, USA to Anna Mary Maloney (I'll ask for help on her on the Limerick board next!)
d 21 Oct 1942 Arizona, USA
Notes say William Ryan was the son of Patrick Ryan and Mary Gleeson.
I think they also had a daughter named Ellen?
I'm pretty much looking for ~anything~ about William Ryan's siblings, parents, grandparents, etc! I have nothing besides the names I've written above and what I can only guess is a mangling of place names. I'm new at this.... you can tell, eh?
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Jen
Glenough is in Clonoulty civil parish (not too far from Cashel) and the baptismal records would be in the Rossmore Clonoulty RC parish. They are available through the Tipperary Heritage Centre Tipperary town for a fee see website http://www.tfhr.org/
or the microfilms are in the National Library Dublin for personal research.
Regards
annclare
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If you go to http://tipperarysouth.brsgenealogy.com/ You can register and search for free but it costs €5.00 to view each record detail.
I checked for William Ryan, b. 1858 and got 11 hits. However only ! had Father named Patrick. The parish is Ballylooby RC which is about 5 miles or less from Cashel.
Dara.
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Dara
The south tipperary brsgenealogy site doesn't have the records for the RC parish of Rossmore Clonoulty or any of the other parishes in South Tipperary in the Diocese of Cashel and Emly. The archishop has only made them available through the TFHR site and has objected to the National Library making the microfilms available. The microfilms in the NLI had been closed for 19yrs until 2008.
annclare
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Thanks for the clarification annclare.
Dara.
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Is it true that the NLI opened the records in 2008 when it was found that the archbishop had no right to refuse access under copyright laws?
Dara.
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Dara
That is my understanding but I think the matter is still being debated.
annclare
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Jen
From the parish registers of Clonoulty -
Baptisms
Ellen Ryan 17 Mar 1856 of Patrick Ryan Mary Gleeson Glenough
12 Jul 1858 William of Patrick Ryan and Mary Gleeson Glenough- sponsors John Ryan Margaret Ryan.
The registers are not indexed so I only had time to search from 1855 - 1862 but found no other children.
There were two other Ryan couples in Glenough at the same time period
Patrick Ryan and Judith Quinlan
Edmond Ryan and Honora Quinlan.
These could be related.
Did Ellen remain in Ireland? - if so it would be worthwhile to search for a marriage.
Regards
annclare
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:) Thank you!!!
From the parish registers of Clonoulty -
Baptisms
Ellen Ryan 17 Mar 1856 of Patrick Ryan Mary Gleeson Glenough
Yay!
12 Jul 1858 William of Patrick Ryan and Mary Gleeson Glenough- sponsors John Ryan Margaret Ryan.
What is a "sponsor"?
The registers are not indexed so I only had time to search from 1855 - 1862 but found no other children.
I REALLY appreciate your time in looking! I have a "family guess" of a sibling of William and Ellen named Anna born 1853.
There were two other Ryan couples in Glenough at the same time period
Patrick Ryan and Judith Quinlan
Edmond Ryan and Honora Quinlan.
These could be related.
I'll add this to my notes in hopes of finding more information. :)
Did Ellen remain in Ireland? - if so it would be worthwhile to search for a marriage.
Yes, she stayed. Family lore has it that William took the Cookie Jar money and snuck off to America by himself to meet up with relatives in Arizona.
I very much appreciate your help!
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If you go to http://tipperarysouth.brsgenealogy.com/ You can register and search for free but it costs €5.00 to view each record detail.
I checked for William Ryan, b. 1858 and got 11 hits. However only ! had Father named Patrick. The parish is Ballylooby RC which is about 5 miles or less from Cashel.
Dara.
I'm off to go register and look around the site. Thank you! :)
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Jen
Some more information from the parish records-
25 Dec 1851 Baptism of Joseph of Patrick Ryan and Mary Gleeson sponsors Joseph Ryan Winifred Gleeson Glenough
2 Jan 1854 Michael of Patrick Ryan Mary Gleeson Sprs Laurence Ryan Winifred Quinlan Glenough
I didn't find anything for a Anne or Anna and searched from 1850- 1856.
Searched marriages from 1840-1850 but did not find marriage of Patrick Ryan and Mary Gleeson. As the marriage usually took place in the parish of the bride it could mean that Mary Gleeson was from a different parish or else the marriage was earlier.
Interesting that you have some knowledge of William's sisters but none of his brothers. I wonder did they survive to adulthood?
Will look again at the later records to see if I can pick up a marriage of Joseph Michael or Ellen but it may be some weeks before I get back to the registers. Sponsors were godparents - each child being christened usually had a male and a female sponsor - though some only had one.
Regards
annclare
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Jen
Looking at the 1911 census for Joseph Ryan b. 1851 this seems to be a possiblility Joseph Ryan age 63 (off by a few years but often ages in the census were not accurate) living in Glenough Lower Clonoulty.
See imagehttp://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003294359/
It might give a few more clues.
annclare
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I very much appreciate all of this help! Thank you so much for your time and efforts!
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For latest info on Cashel & Emly church records see here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,418002.0.html
Dara.
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Dear Jen
I may be able to help
I'm a Ryan from Glenough
the names you mention are familar to me
I can get some photos also
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Hello, Meggo!
Are you my new best friend? LOL! I'm typing with crossed fingers (very challenging) in hopes that you will be able to help me!
I haven't gotten any further with this line in my family since my original post on this message board so I don't think I have any more information to give to you. Wait... I did run across a letter from a relative written in the 80s. I think she mentioned where in Glenough she worked. Give me a day or two to track that down if you think that might be helpful.
Yay!
Thank you!
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Got your message !!I'm pretty sure I'll be able to help you
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Hey,
Great to see Glenough floating around in cyber space!! Another local Glenough Ryan here, Don from the old school. I am trying to figure out who meggo is (obviously a cousin) Would Judy br a reasonable guess?. I could do with some help myself, particularly on the Ryan Raymond side. I have not had the opportunity yet to address Jen's query.
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Hi Jen,
Had a quick search, to see what I could find. Discovered a family in Glenough Lower, with a Mary who was born in 1819, and in 1901 was a widow. (so age profile would fit)
She had living with her a son Joesph and his wife, Ellen Ryan (born 1856) She would also fit the age profile, and it would not be unusual for two Ryans to Marry. Alternatively, her daughter Mary may have left to marry, and Joesph could in fact be her brother.There are also a number of children the eldest being Patrick (which suggests his grandfather was named Patrick!).
If you had any further details, it could really help, or maybe Meggo is a little closer to the ground (and records), as I am only a 'fine weather' resident of that noble region!!
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Jen
I am not sure if you will see this reply to your post about Ryan of Glenough as your first post was a couple of years ago. Did you progress very far with this family? I had a number of Ryans born in Glenough but a bit earlier than yours and wonder if there is any connection to yours.
One Ryan family - Michael Ryan married Mary Quinlan abt 1812 and had children mostly born Torio or Torho Glenough Rossmore Tipperary Jeremiah 1813, Johanna Eleanor (known as Judy) 1818, Bridget 1820, Ellen abt 1821, Margaret 1826, Patrick 1828, Phillip 1837, Catherine 1839.
The Johanna b 1818 (mentioned above) and Michael Ryan b1823 Fana Rossmore Clonoulty (parents Thomas Ryan & Catherine Ryan) married in Rossmore 1840. They had 5 children that I have found born Torah Glenough Rossmore Tipperary - Thomas b 1841, Michael 1842, Catherine Mary 1846, Patrick 1847 and Mary 1850. In 1852 they migrated to Australia and had James, William and Ellen born in Queensland. Patrick b1847 migrated separately with his aunt Margaret in 1859. At that time they came from Cashel.
Thomas and Catherine Ryan also had a son named Patrick who married Bridget Kiely in 1848 at Rossmore/Clonoulty. This family also came to Australia in 1852, initially to Queensland and then moved to Victoria. Children born Ireland were John b1849, Thomas 1851, Qld born Catherine Anastasia b1853, Victorian born Thomas 1855, Philip abt 1856, Patrick abt 1860, Michael abt 1861, Margaret abt 1864, Bridget 1865, Hanora 1872.
It is a long shot but if you think you have any connections, please let me know. Or if anyone else reading this has connections to the families mentioned, I would be happy to hear.
Thanks
Margot Reedy
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Hi Margo,
We are probably related somewhere along the line, but with so many . Just for information, I think that birth place you mentioned should be Toragh, a townland next to Glenough. If you 'google' maps, click on Google Maps and type in Toragh, South Tipperary, it will bring you to the glenough area. Using the Google 'street man', you can look up Toragh Lane, where a bunch of cattle are happily blocking the little road!! You can make a virtual visit to my Summer bolt-hole in Glenough by typing glenough school house into the google search box!!
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Hi Dryan
Thanks for letting me know about the spelling of Toragh. I wasn't sure as I used the spelling from the christening documents, which were varied. I suppose in those days people were not good at spelling even their own towns.
Yes I imagine if your family has lived in the area for many years, somebody did cross mine at some stage. It would be interesting to know but probably too complicated to find out.
Many thanks
Margot :-X
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This may go unnoticed as it is so many years after the original post.
However, I thought I should add my own research on possible Quinlan / Ryan connections in the Clonoulty-Rossemore area circa the first quarter of the 19th century.
The earliest NLI record I have for my family is for a Jerry Quinlan and Ellen Humphries who had five (known) children; Darby “Jerry” Quinlan (January 1805 -); Judith Quinlan (June 1808 -); Ellen Quinlan (April 1812 -); Richard Quinlan (February 1815 - March 1880; Rossmore, South Australia) and finally Honora Quinlan (Aug 1825 - April 1907; Glenough). The only additional information I have for these individuals are for Honora and Richard. Records for the others haven’t turned up in my research. There is also a long gap between the births of the last two children, which I have been unable to explain or fill.
I know that Honora Quinlan married Edmond Ryan in February 1849 in Rossmore. The area of Glenough is also sometimes referred to on some of the baptism records as “Cold Harbor”.
Edmond was the son of Martin Ryan (abt. 1779 - January 1819, according to one of the few NLI death records and a local grave stone; https://tipperarystudies.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Clonoulty%20Old%20Cemetery%20Gravstone%20Inscriptions.pdf) and one Mary Taylor (or Tailor) (dates unknown). Edmond also had a brother Philip (Feb 1812 - December 1836; according to the same gravestone) and an Uncle Thomas Ryan (abt. 1767 - October 1841)
I believe there were a total of 11 children between Honora Quinlan and Edmond Ryan. These were Mary (born May 1850 - presumed to have died before 1865 when the birth of another Mary was registered); Martin (March 1852 - Feb 1934 - married Mary Hennessy in February 1892); Jeremiah (November 1853 - February 1928 - married Johana Ryan in February 1900); Philip (January 1856 - possibly died July 1931 - married Margaret Ryan in February 1905); Ellen (July 1858 - March 1935 - married Thomas Moore in February 1882); Richard (August 1860 - died Jan 1939, Dublin - married Sarah Cregan in April 1898); Margaret (November 1862 - died possibly June 1954, South Australia - emigrated to Australia and may have married a John Quinlan); Mary (April 1865 - unknown); Johanna (abt. 1866 - died possibly May 1900 - married Cornelius O’Brien February 1895); Patrick (March 1867 - July 1921 - did not marry and was a school teacher); Honora (March 1869 - May 1957 - married Thomas Tuohy in February 1903).
Hopefully something here may ring a bell for someone and kick of a new chain of research
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To add further I should have given Edmond Ryan's details as born August 1817 (Rossmore) and died January 1900, with a will granted in 1901 that I have access to (http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014912/005014912_00225.pdf)
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
Edmond Ryan died at Glenough. The informant was his son Martin Ryan living at Gurteenamona (sic).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05770/4630769.pdf
Glenough Lower townland
https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/kilnamanagh-lower/clonoulty/clonoulty-west/glenough-lower/
Martin Ryan and family in 1901 census.
Residents of a house 3 in Gorteennamona (Clonoulty West, Tipperary).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Clonoulty_West/Gorteennamona/1705927/
Gorteennamona townland
https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/kilnamanagh-lower/clonoulty/clonoulty-west/gorteennamona/
KG
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.......Toragh, a townland next to Glenough.
https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/kilnamanagh-lower/clonoulty/clonoulty-west/toragh/
Glenough Lower is just to the west.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5613962#map=12/52.6135/-8.1601
Martin Ryan and family in 1901 census.
Residents of a house 3 in Gorteennamona (Clonoulty West, Tipperary).
Martin Ryan and family in 1911 census.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Clonoulty_West/Gorteennamona/815376/
Martin Ryan died in 1934 at Gurteenamoe (sic). Note that the informant was his nephew, Tim Ryan living at Glenough.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1934/04847/4307891.pdf
KG
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From the CIGO Guide to Irish Calendars of Wills and Administrations-
1934
RYAN MARTIN – 16 May Probate of the Will of MARTIN RYAN late of Gorteennamoe Gooldscross County Tipperary Ex-Farmer who died 28 FEBRUARY 1934 granted at WATERFORD to Denis Tuohy and Edward Ryan Farmers Effects £1660 11s 1d
KG
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Martin Ryan and family in 1911 census.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Clonoulty_West/Gorteennamona/815376/
Martin's daughter Hanora married Michael Fahey on 12 February 1923 in Rossmore RC Church. Her sister Winifred was one of the witnesses.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1923/09176/5318768.pdf
Winifred Ryan married Michael Butler on 8 February 1928 again at Rossmore RC Church. (Note that the priest put the father's names in the wrong place)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1928/09076/5283423.pdf
KG
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Cauthon7 Thanks for the information on Jeremiah and Ellen Quinlan, my great great grandparents. I also found a Laurence baptised 15/6/1820 at Sologhead. In relation to Edmond and Honora Ryan's daughter Margaret she married Richard Quinlan's son John and had a daughter Bridie. (Richard son of Jeremiah and Ellen).