RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: tracey-leigh on Wednesday 21 October 09 06:14 BST (UK)
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::):D Hi I'm trying to trace my great great grand parents,
James Harper born 1804 and Elizabeth McCarthy born 1808. both from co down,( Hillsborough i think)
they had a son James born 1831 and died in bulls New zealand 1900.James Jr married Sarah Wratt(Ratt) in Brightwater Nelson new zealand. so please if you have any information about James and Elizabeth, i would love to hear it.
Thanks
Tracey.
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Tracey,
Welcome to roots chat. Unfortunately the information you are looking for is well before the requirement for Civil registration (1845 for protestant marriages and 1864 for Catholic marriages and births and deaths). You will have to depend on church records, where they exist, and for that you will need to know exactly where the couple lived, parish but preferably townland.
Regards
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thanks for that,
im not sure but Hillsborough is mentioned a lot, how many parishes could there be, lol
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Do you know what religion the family were?
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no im sorry i dont, all i know about them is in the first post, sorry not much to go on. i cant find anything about them.
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Hi Tracey
I am trying to put together the McCarthys of County Down in 19th Century, and I have searched quite a few parishes so far for COI McCarthys. Elizabeth McCarthy wasn't baptised at COI Hillsborough under the surname McCarthy. I currently have a search in of Hillsborough COI from 1805-1820 for baptisms of McCarthys under various other spellings, ie: McCarty, McCaherty & McCagherty (as these spellings were used at that time). Do you know where James & Elizabeth were married ? Do you know where their son James was baptised ? In which religion..when did James Jnr leave Northern Ireland ? Did James Snr & Elizabeth leave NI as well ?
Cheers
Karen
Australia
Cheers
Karen
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Tracey-leigh hasn't been online since 2009 and at that time didn't know what religion the family were.
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Hey Tracey-Leigh James Harper was my great grandfather and you've got a generation further back than I know about! Congratulations - please get in touch - I'm not supposed to post my email direct but you're obviously more familiar with this site than I am so I presume you know how.
James Jr was my grandmother Ethel Maude Harper's father. Maude was born in Bulls in 1882, she married my grandad Henry Geddes in her early 20s (I don't have the date to hand.) My mother Grace was born in 1917...
I'd love to know where in County Down James came from - that's what my husband was trying to find out when he stumbled across your request... Beginner's luck!
Best Regards - you're probably a cuzzie...
Geraldine Oliver
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Welcome to Rootschat. Unfortunately tracey-leigh posted a few messages in 2009 and never returned. There's still a chance they will see your post and respond or that someone else researching the McCarthys will.
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I did this out of interest for the Harper name, same sources apply
1830
from http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/hillsborough-parish.php#.VeA5J0uDoYU
Harper, Hacket Townland: Corcreeny Year: 1830
Harper, James Townland: Corcreeny Year: 1830
Harper, John Townland: Corcreeny Year: 1830
Harper, Samuel Townland: Corcreeny Year: 1830
McCarthy not found
1863 with map references
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation
Griffiths valuation
not necessarily the same family lines
Harper James Taughblane Hillsborough Down
Harper John Taughblane Hillsborough Down
Mc Carthy William Hillsborough Hillsborough Down
Mc Carthy William Drumatihugh Hillsborough Down
Mc Carthy John Aghandunvarran Hillsborough Down
Mc Carthy Mary Aghandunvarran Hillsborough Down
Mc Carthy James Lisburn Street,Hillsborough Hillsborough Down
from http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/H/Harper.htm
HARPER family Donaghadee came over from Scotland with Hugh Montgomery in 1603 as tradesmen to help build the port & town HN
Widow . HARPER . Hillsborough of Corcreeny townland, charity donation in 1836 V12 p 106 OSM
Edward B. HARPUR Esq. Hillsborough of Main St, Hillsborough in 1852 POD
George HARPER . Hillsborough son of William Harper ; married Mary Jane McFadden 5 Nov 1855 CR
Isaac HARPER . Hillsborough son of James Harper , farmer of Hillsborough; died 1 Dec 1868 aged 23 of apoplexy PPNZMiss Mary HARPER . Hillsborough daughter of James Harper; married James Craig of Magheradartan 1 Jul 1850 ; mother of male child b. 10 May 1864 CR
Richard HARPER . Hillsborough son of James Harper ; married Eliyn (sic) Stanfield 2 May 1862 CR
Richard HARPER . Hillsborough husband of Isabella Stanfield; father of George b. 4 Jun 1866 CR
Richard HARPER . Hillsborough husband of Eliza(beth) Stanfield; father of William John b. 5 Oct 1867 & Isabella b. 5 Oct 1869 & James b. 31 Jul 1871 & Mary Ann b. 21 Nov 1872 CR
Richard Joseph HARPER . Hillsborough
youngest son of Joseph Harper of Hillsborough; married Elizabeth (2nd daughter of John Graham Esq. of Nelson, New Zealand ) 9 Jun 1902 at Nelson, New Zealand PPNZ
Samuel HARPER . Hillsborough of Corcreeny townland, charity donation in 1836 V12 p 106 OSM
William HARPER . Hillsborough of Corcreeny townland, charity donation in 1836 V12 p 106 OSM
from PRONI Belfast
http://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_eCatNI_IE/ has 497 references some might be Hillsborough , but I dont have time.
Must go
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Hey Tracey-Leigh James Harper was my great grandfather and you've got a generation further back than I know about! Congratulations - please get in touch - I'm not supposed to post my email direct but you're obviously more familiar with this site than I am so I presume you know how.
James Jr was my grandmother Ethel Maude Harper's father. Maude was born in Bulls in 1882, she married my grandad Henry Geddes in her early 20s (I don't have the date to hand.) My mother Grace was born in 1917...
I'd love to know where in County Down James came from - that's what my husband was trying to find out when he stumbled across your request... Beginner's luck!
Best Regards - you're probably a cuzzie...
Geraldine Oliver
Hey Geraldine, so good to hear from you, hows your search going? i havent really got any closer to finding out about James and Elizabeth, but it does sound like we are cuzzies,lol. Arthur JOhn HArper was my grandfather, he was GRaces brother, are you on facebook, if so please add me would love to catch up. Tracey Leigh Whale is my name.
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I explored that suggestion of Hillsborough connections for James Harper born 1804 m Elizabeth McCarthy born 1808. both from Co Down, and the McCarthy contribution saying no McCarthy baptism recorded for her etc in the Church of Ireland records , together making me consider was I following a possible red herring.
Emmigrant Harpers from co Down include
Richard Joseph HARPER Hillsborough youngest son of Joseph Harper of Hillsborough; married Elizabeth (2nd daughter of John Graham Esq. of Nelson, New Zealand ) 9 Jun 1902 at Nelson, New Zealand source PPNZ
Isaac Harper [b~1845] son of James Harper , farmer of Hillsborough; died 1 Dec 1868 aged 23 of apoplexy died 1868 PPNZ both these from Ros Davies website
That made me spend a little time searching Findmypast which has a sub section Travel and immigration which is searchable , but you buy credits to see the entries You find eg An emigrant Isaac Harper b 1846 arrives Australia.... so interesting but needs unavailable time.
I remenerered aghadowey years ago suggesting often would the querist check out the arrivals as something NZ record wise might help locate the place in co down
that took me to a website http://www.dia.govt.nz/Births-deaths-and-marriages which gives alittle more detail which I have added to the early generation
James Harper b1804 m Elizabeth McCarthy b 1808. both from co down
children
James Harper Jr born 1831-1900 or d 1889/2205 NZ married married Sarah Wratt(Ratt) b ? m 1870/9453 d 1877/1702 aged 46 so b 1831
children
Maude b 1882 m Henry geddes
other possible children of James in Hillsborough include
ac Harper b~1845 died 1868 NZ
b 1846 arrives
other children
Richard HARPER . Hillsborough son of James Harper ; married Eliyn (sic) {Eileen} Stanfield daughter of Richard Stanfield 2 May 1862 CR +FH
Richard HARPER . Hillsborough husband of Isabella Stanfield; father of George b. 4 Jun 1866 CR
Richard HARPER . Hillsborough husband of Eliza(beth) Stanfield; father of William John b. 5 Oct 1867 & Isabella b. 5 Oct 1869 & James b. 31 Jul 1871 & Mary Ann b. 21 Nov 1872 CR
Census Years1901DownHilleboroughDrumatihughResidents of a house
Residents of a house 13 in Drumatihugh (Hilleborough, Down)
Show all information
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion
Harper Isabilla 28 Female Daughter Church of Ireland
Harper Richard 68 Male Head of Family Church of Ireland
Harper George 34 Male Son Church of Ireland
Harper Mary C 1 Female Sons Daughter Church of Ireland
Harper Dorothy 23 Female Sons Wife Church of Ireland
My overall feeling was perhaps Hillsborough is the place as extra evidence shows the Mccarthy of Hillsborough were regularly having children baptised in Hillsborough Parish church but their earlier children were sometimes baptised in Dromore parish church Ros Davies also has several intermarriages with the Stanfields. She also has a contributor Karen Mccarthy that mihght be worth you following up.
On http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk there are 3 trees that include
James Harper 1804 Ireland ... No Gwynneth the tree holder
James Harper 1804 Ireland ... No Anita the tree holder
James Harper 1804 Ireland ... No Graham the tree holder
but I think you need to join to asl permission to see the tree
thats my final contribution hoping you all connect up