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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: joanofacre on Tuesday 20 October 09 01:52 BST (UK)
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I am at a blank wall with Alexander Pat/terson born abt 1810 ...of Dollar,Clackmannanshire,Scotland
I need a actual birth date to get any further in Scottish records ......have a few candidate parents.....is there any south Australian records that may give me a birth date for this relative?
Arrived 1839 "Asia" came out with wife Jane nee Ross & children one died at sea) ,mother in law Christian Ross nee Hutchison , sister in law & family Isabella Simpson nee Ross - her husband Archibald Simpson & daughters, also on "Asia" family of Anderson's who married into Simpson family....
The Patterson family lived Thebarton and "Woodcot" Paech Rd, Wistow (nr Mt Barker) South Australia
Alexander died 1874 & is buried Mt Barker Cemetery
Elder of Presbyterian Church in Mt Barker
Would early census, immigration records, land acquisition or death records (not sure if had will) possibly have date of birth?
Also I have a gap from 1839 to late 1840's & would love to know the occupation's of any of these people before moving up to Mt Barker area.
When Alexander arrived he bought house in Thebarton (not sold until 1873)
Any & all suggestions appreciated.......
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Hi joanofacre,
A Big Welcome to RootsChat ;D
Unfortunately I doubt there will be any records providing a date of birth (unless there is a very detailed gravestone.
BISA
PATTERSON Alexander parents George b 1810 Scotland died 8 Dec 1874 Mt Barker SA arrived 1839 aboard the ASIA occupation - Bleacher, Farmer residence - Adelaide, Mt Barker, religion - Presb married Jane nee ROSS parents Christina nee HUTCHINSON born 20.4.1815 Scotland died 7 May 1870 Mt Barker SA children Christina ((1836-1839), George (1838-1896), Hugo 1840), John Ross (1842), Alexander (1843-1924), Jane (1852-1853), Isabella MARSHALL (1854-1919), Wm (1857-1938)
Cheers Kris :)
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Been having a bit of a look about. There does not appear to be a gravestone for Alexander. They do not appear in the 1841 census.
There is one thing. They did apply for free travel. There may be a little more information in these records (age maybe - but not dob) I can take a look when at the library next
SIMPSON Archibald (1 male, 1 female, 1 child) application No 3932 Embarkation No 2375
ROSS Christian (1 female) application No 3933 Embarkation No 2389
PATERSON Archibald (1 Male, 1 Female, 2 Children) application No 3934 Embarkation No 2367
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi Kris
Thank you for your prompt reply............I am getting very desperate with this one and have resorted to checking out any connections with other listed Pat/terson immigrants to S.A from Scotland just in case they may be related...........the info you sent confirms some of what I have...not sure about the source for this entry though..........do you know how to find out who submitted this entry?
Kind regards
Michelle
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Hi Michelle,
You could try contacting the SAGHS who published the BISA
http://www.saghs.org.au/index.html
It was published in 1986 as a record of South Australians who were born or arrived in the colony in the first 50 years. The information was gleaned from research by the SAGHS in archives, public records, private papers, and letters of administrations as well as contributions from private individuals.
Good Luck
Kris :)
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Hi Kris
You must have posted while I was typing last message....... I live near Mt Barker & have checked out cemetry ... there is a online record & found fenced plot but no head stone for Alexander....
There is a local history centre in Mt Barker library I have checked out SA BDM & BI Index but not sure what immigration records they may have ..........is there a particular name for immigration records...for that period? Archibald Simpson married Isabella Ross ...sister of Jane Ross who is Alexanders wife.....one of Isabella's daughters married a son of the Anderson's who also arrived on same ship....they all lived within a few miles of each other once in Mt Barker ....however I am not sure if they where all together in Thebarton?
Regards michelle
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Hi Michelle
Do you have a copy of Alexanders death certificate and does it have details of his parents? Also, I see that there is a submitted entry on Familysearch IGI that refers to him as being 'of Dollar' but do you have anything that actually states that he was from there?
Andy
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Hi Andy,
Unfortunately SA death Certs provide very little information from that period. Not much more than the index. Parents are not listed. :'(
I am still looking about Michelle but not finding anything else. Unfortunately the immigration records from that period have not survived. In most cases all we have are the entries from the newspaper of the ships arrival, listing the passengers names. If you get into the library have a look at the applications for free travel. They are listed and there just may something useful in them.
Another thing worth trying is Presbyterian Mags as he was an Elder. I have not found him in Thebarton. Finding him paying rates on 81 acres etc in Macclesfield district but we are already in the 1850's by then. Shame they do not appear in the census. Newspaper BMDs but they are already in Woodcot in the 50's
Cheers Kris :)
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There are burials for two young children at WTC. You probably have the deaths, so sign of birth records
PATTERSON Hugh Ross 12 Sep 1842 aged 21 months (residence Thebarton)
PATTERSON John Ross 26 Dec 1842 aged 6 weeks (residence Thebarton)
Next we see the birth of Alexander 11 Dec 1843 in Mt Barker so looks like they moved after losing the two young boys.
Next birth not till 1854 (birth noted in The Register of Woodcot Farm Mt Barker) then the next birth 1857 (also in The Register)
Now 1853 we have a death notice in The Register 26 Mar 1853 for the death at Mt Barker of Jane aged 14 months youngest child and only daughter of Mr Alexander Patterson, farmer of that district. I don't see a birth for her - maybe not registered. A lot weren't during that period but it seems a long time between the birth of Alexander in Mt Barker in 1843 and then nothing till Jane somewhere in 1852. (9 years) yet from here we have another birth in 1854 and one in 1857. Seems an awfully large gap. Could they have been out of SA for some years?
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi Andy & Kris
Thanks for info .....I have just checked sa family history online resource guide for bdm & will try to order birth certificate for son william b 1857 and his marrige certificate 1882 which may give more info ...but unlikely to have anything re birth date for Alexander on death certificate in 1874.
Can either of you do alook up for Isabella & Archibald Simpson for me to see where they were living in Australia once they landed ?
regards michelle
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Hi Kris & Andy
Sorry I seen to have the knack of posting just when someone else does ....yes Christian b 1836 Dollar died at sea, George b 1838 Dollar m Jane Lyon of Lt Hampton, Hugo b 1840 d 1842, John Ross b 1842 d 1842, Alexander b 1843 m Sarah Lyon of Lt Hampton, Jane b 1852 d 1853, Isabella b 1854 m William Marshall, and William b 1857 m Philadelphia Goodliffe nee Brooks at BlackRock nr Erskine/Orroroo in 1882
There is a big gap between Alex & Jane ...personally I would have given up or died of a broken heart from losing so many children .....it must of been a hard life for the early settlers...
Andy regarding your query on Alexander records .....the only ref we have is LSD marriage index with abt 1810 of Dollar so I can't get further without a date .to tie in parents....Clackmannanshire is small and boarders a few other counties Perth & Stirling in particular which makes it harder ....he did work as a bleacher in Dollar and was listed living with his wife & mother in law in a muster in 1835. Thats all I have....
Regards Michelle
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Hi Michelle
My knowledge (for want of a better word) is actually Scotland, my gggrandmother was a Paterson from Dunblane, Perthshire, which is only about 20 kms from Dollar. Pat(t)erson is quite a common name in Scotland. There were about 500 in Clackmannanshire in the 1841 census, and many more in the nearby counties.
The BISA entry seems to suggest father was George but is this someones guess ie 1st son named after fathers father, and an IGI submitted entry suggests born Dollar c1809 but is that also someones guess as he married in Dollar.
A quick check of the IGI shows only one nearby birth of an Alexander Paterson, father named George, christened 25th May 1805, Kippen, Stirlingshire. mother Hellen Galloway. Kippen is only about 30 kms from Dollar.
Andy
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Be sure to take a look through the SA Resources Michelle.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,280572.0.html
Details on SA certificates
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=368744.0
Not sure what you mean re the Simpsons. Both died in Mt Barker District. 1860 Archilbalds lists his residence as Strathalbyn. Do you have this information? Archibald was a ratepayer in the Bremar District in 1854 and registered a brand in the Kondoparinga District in 1855 (I think the districts amalgated)
Christian ROSS also died in Mt Barker so no clues there to the earlier years.
Cheers Kris :)
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BISA
SIMPSON Archibald born about 1813 Tillibody died 30 Sep 1860 SA residence Mt Barker religion Presb married Isabella nee ROSS born about 1812 died 6. Dec 1862 Mt Barker SA children Margaret 1840, Emily Montgomery HILL
1842.
They do not appear in the 1841 census but I did find Alexander -don't know how I missed him :-[
Thebarton - Page 110
PATTERSON Alexander 2 males under 7, 1 male under 35, 1 female under 35, 1 female over 50
2 doors away
ANDERSON Thomas 2 males under 7, 1 male under 35, 1 female under 14, 1 female under 35
The choices are under 7, under 14, under 21, under 35, under 50 and over 50
Kris :)
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Hi Kris & Andy
Thank you both for your all your kind assistance and information today! I know this post is long but I wanted to address points by letting you know what I have already
Kris …..thank you for finding information on the Andersons living 2 doors away in Thebarton
No I did not have this information and was not sure if these families had kept together between landing and moving up to the Mt Barker area .....do you have an actual address ?
I have Alexander purchasing allotment 236 in section 1 in Light's Village for eight pounds on 2nd of Feb 1839 and he kept this property until 1873 (now 32-34 Kintore ave,Thebarton ..but would have been 32-34 South Terrace,Thebarton early on & name changed at some point later)
I believe from your info Alex&Jane would have had George & Hugo (died 1842) & Jane's Mother Christian Ross living with them I would say.
Isabella & Archibald Simpsons daughter Margret b 1839 Tullibody married John Anderson b 1835 so he would be a child of 7 yo in 1841C...(they went on to have 13 Children together)
Re Simpsons I only have following references to them living in Wistow /Strath area but no actual address and nothing for them before 1842...for up here in the hills.
I have Emily Montgomery Simpson b 1842 Greenside,S.A (not sure where Greenside is unless should be Greenhill a locality in the area?) marrying John Hill @ residence of James Forbes Mt Crawford in 1863
and I also found another daughter....Christian Simpson b 1837 Scotland married to John Dingle Coad (of Sandegrove nr Strathalbyn) in 1856 @ the residence of A Simpson of Kondaparinga.
.... and another reference to Morning Star rd which although it has been realigned basically runs off the top of "Woodcot" farm in Wistow. (This property was sold after Alexander’s death in 1874 and became the notorious "Eden Park" Salvation Army Boys Home)
How did you find the brand registration ???? I would love more details....
Andy
I agree Alexander certainly lived in Dollar area from marriage up to coming to SA but he may have been born anywhere and I need a date of birth to go any further ….I did find a property on the Back rd in Dollar also called "Woodcot" which is name of the farm in S.A. ….however I don’t’ know this means anything more than maybe Alexander or Jane admired it.........all the Ross children were born in Dollar & it appears they were all well educated and attended Dollar Academy with son Hugh attending for many years.....I found a reference to a will for John Ross - Jane & Isabella's father who died in 1828 in free search......do you know how informative will's may have been if made in this era?
My strong favorite for Alexander's parents are an Alexander Paterson & Isabel Robertson (her father is named George from Stirling) or an Alexander & Isabella Patterson Tartan weavers from Bannockburn.....or is this too far away? I thought it was a possibility as Alexander worked in the bleach fields so his occupation may have followed on from skills &/or knowledge learned from parents occupation …..having said this however I haven’t totally ruled out the many Paterson Miners from Dollar or Clackmannan …as some emigrated to South Australia …
Thank you both for your assistance & information……I feel a little more enthusiastic to keep going …..I will try to piece together as much as I can for these families particularly their early years …acknowledging & regardless of the fact I may not get any further with Alexander’s parents
I will also do as Kris suggested and go back through resouces links………..
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Hi Michelle,
No sorry the address is not listed on the Census - just Thebarton. Better than some which are District A/B. City ones mainly do list a street but alas this does not. What I posted is all there is.
SA Government Gazette 14 Oct 1847
Crown Lands Office, October 13, 1847.
THE following persons having omitted to pay their last year's assessment for cattle depastured on the Crown Lands, the provisions of the Ordinance, No. 16, of 1817, intituled, An Act to facilitate the recovery of assessment under the Crown Lands Ordinance," will be put in force against all those who do not forthwith pay to the Colonial Treasury the amounts due by them
SIMPSON Archibald
SA Government Gazette 15 Feb 1855
DISTRICT OF KONDOPARINGA.
Notice is hereby given, that I have assigned the following brands, in terms of section 18 of Act No. 5 of 1840, to the persons those names are underwritten, and who are ratepayers in the said District of
Kondoparinga:—
cs near ribs, numbers near ribs, Archibald Simpson, Angas.
Richard SCOWN,
Inspector of Brands for the District of Kondoparinga.
Cattle Registry Office, December 30, 1854.
I note Green Hill is in the same district as a brand was also listed this in this list of registrations by someone living there.
Cheers Kris :)
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The Register 26 Dec 1863
HILL - SIMPSON - On the 24 Dec at Glenhead, the residence of James Forbes Esq, of Taskervale, by the Rev H Tuck John only son of Mr George Hill, farmer Mt Crawford to Emily Montgomery youngest daughter of the late Archibald Simpson of Mt Barker.
The Register 65 Oct 1860
SIMPSON Archibald - On the 30 Sep, at his brother in law's residence, Mr Patterson, Woodcott, near Mt Barker, Archibald Simpson late of Tillibody, aged 47 years
The Register 16 Dec 1862
SIMPSON - On the 6 Dec, at Woodcote near Mt Barker, at the residence of here brother in law, Mrs Isabella Simpson aged 50 years
Cheers Kris :)
By the way Michelle - I lived at Wistow for a short time many moons ago ;)
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Hi Kris
Thank you so much for the last 2 posts which confirm Archibald must of at least been a rate payer and most likely living up here by 1840 ...........
I have found a few more births @ Greenside,S.A. so could be a locality ....some are Patterson's who I can't connect ....however Alexanders son George married Janet Lyon in 1861 (and owned Sec 2814 Hd Macclesfield in 1864 ) and I found some of their children where also born @ Greenside .... I wonder if this property was Archibald & Isabella's originally and he may have been working it & then bought it ?
I will ring a local real estate agent who I know had a fair bit to do with a heritage survey of the area some years ago and has a lot of local knowlege......he maybe able to provide some clue as to where Archibald was & where Greenside is/was ...
The Hd of Kondaparinga runs out of Strathalbyn township to the west along the Strath to Goolwa rd and up to Meadows
Hd of Macclesfield runs out of strath to the North west and includes Maccelsfield,Wistow,Bugle Ranges and area's just to right of Mt Barker - Strath rd (which becomes Morning star rd @ Wistow on the boundry of "Woodcot" farm) and pulls in Wistow end of Wellington rd
Hd of Bremer runs south out of Strathalbyn & below Strath - Goolwa rd to west and along rd to Langhorne creek to the east and includes an area called Angus Plains to east and Giles Flat to West (nr Sandegrove) where John Dingle Coad,who married Archibald's daughter Christine, lived.
Hd of Strath takes in east including woodchester area
Not sure where in here Archibald may have been....... I also found a reference to Rankine family owning a farm called Braemar on Paris creek rd ......they are conected to other Pat/tersons from Barr,Ary,SCT ... who settled in the area (not sure if connected to ours )
It nice to see the family's all apparently stayed pretty close .& looked after each other ..particually re Archibald & Isabella's deaths ......
How long ago did you live @ Wistow? I not sure if you have been up here lately but the way things are looking it will most likely be all housing developments right up to Wistow before too long....
Mt Barker is very very busy place ...roads are not copong to well with all the traffic ....really bad trying to find a car park anywhere in main street now!
Regards Michelle
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Hi Michelle,
I assumed by the brand reg that Archibald's residence at "Angas" I thought it may have been the property name but looking again others at Angas also registered brands including William RANKINE so perhaps it is Angus, note persons at Angas Survey also registered brands. Most seem to be just areas (Meadows, Finniss, Green Hills) but this one seems like property "Rushburn Farm" Nicholas COAD Sen and Jun registered brands at Mosquito Flat.
I lived in Wistow in 1972. - there was nothing there. I doubt that I have been out that way since the late 70's either. Did pull in to Mt Barker a few years ago and was quite blown away by the growth.
Cheers Kris :)
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The Rankines originally lived in a tent according to The Cyclopedia of SA Vol 2 - 1907/9 (where the school now stands) William RANKINE'S son Andrew is credited with being the first white person born at Strathalbyn in 1841. His resldence is now Rushmore 2 miles from Strath. William Melville RANKINE is at Woodburn," situate on the River Angas, in the Bremer district, about seven miles from Strathalbyn" I believe this was his father's property. His father was Williams firstborn Matthew. William Melville was born on this property. They all seem to have been involved in Lodge and The Presbyterian Church. Some lovely pics - pity they are not your ancestors.
I did also see other births listed at Greenside nr Macclesfield, but can't find it anywhere......Kris :)
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Hi Kris
Thanks for that last info ...I did see a ref to Mosquito Flat somewhere but can't find on google map ....may have been to do with birth of children of Christian Simpson & John Dingle Coad....I have also just found strath have a family history room so I will try to find contact details or get down there when it next opens ...I will let you know how I go!
michelle
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WHOOEEE Michelle,
Look what I just found in South Australians 1836-1885 (The follow on to the BISA)
PATTERSON Alexander - parents Joseph and Elizabeth KIRK, born 10 Apr 1911 Scotland died 8 Dec 1874 Mt Barker, buried Mt Barker,
He arrived 16 July 1839 from England aboard the ASIA
Occupation - Bleacher. Residence Mt Barker.
Religion - Presbyterian.
Married - 23 March 1834 to Jane ROSS who was the daughter of John and Christina nee HUTCHISON She died 13 May 1870 and was buried at Mt Barker.
Children Christina 1836-1839, George 12 Dec 1838 - 24 May 1896, Alexander 11 Dec 1843 - 5 Dec 1924, Isabella MARSHALL 20 July 1854 - 11 May 1919, William 24 May 1857 - 23 Jun 1938.
The Birth details provided appear on the IGI in Clackmannan (Extracted record) ;D
It is submitted so no guarantees - Submitter may be different to the BISA as a different father is given. (or maybe more information came to hand) Anyway this Submitter also has an entry for LYONS so possibly from one of those lines. Will PM details, no Ph listing that I can see but the name may mean more to you. ;)
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi Kris
I have a old family history book which gives a few possible parents for Alexanderand this was one of the couples ....however I have been dismissing them as I think I checked it out before then found they had two Alexander Patterson children the one in 1811 who died & second was born about 1813... I will have a look tonight in my messy notes and see if I can find again .....I think I must of thought 1813 too late however you never never know .......also no one seems to name their children Joseph .....I think this Joseph was considered because he was a carter and may have had something to do with the linen fields in Dollar thus Alex becoming a bleacher ....Archibald Simpson's occ was listed as a carter on his marriage certificate to Isabella ..............
I will let you know what I find in my notes............
Thanks Kris
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Hi Kris
Quick update...will try to contact person from lsd records to see if they have more info re dob ...when I checked my records it was another couple who had two alexander's so this person may have found a date to link...the other suggested parents were James patterson & janet harley...
So worked on Hugh Ross b 1818 Dollar and found a few intresting bits & pieces....he is son of Christian nee Hutchison & brother of Jane patterson & Isabella Simpson ...he stayed in scotland...
1841C living 8 Roxburgh tce,St Cuthberts,Edingurgh,Midlothian. Linen Draper Shopman.....
1851C living 12 Beaumont Place. Draper & Shirt Maker with wife Emily Montgomery & daughters Marion Montgomery Ross 3yo, Christian Hutchison Ross 1 & servant...
found another daughter Elizabeth Anderson Ross & son John Alexander Ross on IGI....
checked 1841C for Emily Montgomery & found her living Clerk St, with mother Elisabeth, sister Grace,Marion,Helen (s/law?)& Alexander ...also Andrew Paterson 40yo?
Found Marriage for Alexander Montgomery & Elisabeth Anderson daugther of William Anderson IGI...
so I will see if I can find more on Thomas Anderson & Agnes Gourlay to see if there was also a link with this family before arriving in SA.
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From the applications for free travel
2 Feb 1838 agent Geo RAE
SIMPSON Archibald Lab from Edinburgh Lab married Male aged 23, Female aged 23 1 girl aged 10 months
PATERSON Alex Ploughman from Dollar Field Clackmannan Married - Male aged 28, Female aged 23, 1 boy aged 11 Months, 1 girl aged 3
ROSS Christian Lab from Dollar Field Clackmannan Single aged 49 - Comment - PAYS
18 Dec 1838 There was another Alex PATERSON a few years older also applied for free travel - He was from Tillibody Clackmannan single aged 34 agri lab
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi Michelle (and others)
Just getting back into my family history after a bit of a hiatus and found your post. Archibald SIMPSON and Isabella nee ROSS are my great-great-great-great grandparents, so seems we are distantly related! I am descended throught their daughter Margaret, who married John ANDERSON, as mentioned in postings elsewhere.
In my efforts to discover more about Archibald, I kept coming across records of your Alexander PATTERSON and have come to the same conclusion as you - the two families were inextricably linked.
The best link comes from an article in the Eudunda Family Heritage Gallery newslettter:
http://eudundaheritage.com/gustav's_newsletters/gustav_newsletter3_September_2001.pdf
On page 3, is a quote from Christina Ross which I absolutely adore: “If Sandy goes to Australia, then I am going too!”
The reference is given as "Among the Pioneers", the Alexander and Jane Patterson Family History. I have never got around to following it up, but it sounds as though it could be invaluable to your research. I assume the Eudunda history group at least has a copy.
Another useful source MAY be the diary of the physician aboard the ASIA (the ship in which they emigrated in 1839), which is currently held by the SLSA, and is accessible in their reading room. I have found the reference to the sections where the eldests PATTERSON and youngest ANDERSON child died, and there may be other references to the families.
I would be interested to hear if/how you resolve Alexander's birth. I am in a similar position when it comes to Archibald SIMPSON, although the records for my ancettor seem even more scant
Darren
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Hi Darren,
Great to hear from you! I am actually the partner of Sandy's Great-great-grandson, born in Eudunda. I have a scanned copy of the family history book if you would like me to send it to you it has been a great help however as it was compiled in the years before records were as accessable as know there is a bit more info that I have found which would not have been available to them at the time....after Sandys death his son's William & Alex [jnr] took up land at Orrooroo, William then bought top section of Anlaby Station at Eudunda where his great- great-grandchildren still farm today.
I have a copy of Isabell & Archibalds marriage certificate if you would like a copy....John Anderson & Margaret Simpson are buried in Nairne cemetery and I am happy to send a photo if you dont have one..I would love to swap notes with you and see if we can track down Archibalds parents ...I have had a bit of a go and have some possible candidates but again without an actual date of birth it is hard to tie parents down.
Kind regards Michelle
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Hi Michelle
Regardless of connection, it is nice to finally find someone who is interested in the descendents of John Ross (ie Simpson and/or Patterson families). Sounds like you have gone a bit further than me in many areas, but still happy to share information. Even better is to have someone to bounce ideas off of.
I certainly would love a scanned copy of the family history book. I used to live in Alice Springs, but a number of years ago moved to Mount Gambier. This makes it hard to get to many of the country centres where our forebears lived.
Do you have an actual certificate for Archibald and Isabella's marriage? I have a copy of the entry from the parish register in Scotland - that is how I discovered John Ross was Isabella's (and Jane's) father. If they are different, I am happy to send you a copy of what I have.
I have visited the grave of John and Margaret Anderson. My folks live near Murray Bridge, so it's not that far away. In fact, I went for a drive with my mother just this morning, and passed the northern end of PATTERSON ROAD at Monarto, named after Sandy's eldest son - George (but I digress)
It has been interesting tracking down early records for these families. Both Margaret and Emily Montgomery (Archibald's two younger daughters) were born prior in 1842 when civil registration began. A birthday book that we once borrowed gives Margaret's birthday as 24th August (although elsewhere I have 24th April ??) Based on her age at death, I worked out that she was born in 1840 (this may be out by one year). I wonder where she was born?
Likewise I don't have a definitive place of birth for Emily Montgomery, although if we could place that, it may help to work out when the families moved up to Mt Barker. An obscure IGI record has a Robert Anderson being born to Thomas Anderson and Agnes Gourlay at Reed Beds in 1842.
Although Robert later lived at Cookes Plains alongside John and Thomas (jnr), I have not found any record that actually links him to my family. [My understanding is that Reed Beds is a name given to an area along the Torrens in the Brompton (/ Thebarton) area]. Thomas Anderson later moved to Macclesfield, although I am not sure that this was at the same time as the Simpsons / Pattersons.
I have just rediscovered some old title deeds, and other records I have which may shed a little more light. More to follow...
Darren
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Hi Darren
Thank you for your email ! I will send you a direct message with my contact details so I can forward copy of Family History Book & scan of Archies & Isabell's marriage entry.
I also send you a bit of a summary of what I have found out and a brief sketch of the linked family tree.
Recently my partner had a work accident and although he is very well now he had to spend some time down at Royal Adelaide Hospital.....anyway we got to spend sometime in State library and I found references in Colonial Residents microfiche as follows...............
1845 to 1848 patterson & simpson cultivator Devonbank Mt Barker District
Devonbank is the name of a Villa at Dollarfields - where Sandy, Jane & Chrisitan where living in a 1835 Dollar muster.
Woodcot is the name of a mansion in Dollar
and Greenside is the name of a house in Tullibody...
We recently where also up Patterson Rd in Monarto collection peastraw bales for the garden....one of the Patterson farms Banner Rest is the first on the Left after the cross rd & where it goes to gravel
a relation of people who settled the area at the sametime told us that the old house had been pulled down and a new white[ish] one was built in its place.
Hugh Ross one of the children who stayed behind in scotland married a girl called "Emily Montgomery" who's mother was an Anderson ..although that was a very popular name.
I have a gap for Simpsons who were not listed at Thebarton in 1841C as Anderson & Patterson's were however I do have following information on Simpson Children.........
Christian b 1837 Scotland married John Dingle Coad buried @ Robe,SA
Margaret b 1839 Tullbody, Clack married John Anderson buried @ Nairne
Emily Montgomery b 1842 Greenside SA m John Hill
The children of Thomas & Agnes Anderson are hard to work out because they renamed children born here after children who died at sea. They were married 26 Nov 1831 in Carnbee,Fife Thomas died 18/9/1882 Bugle Ranges, Agnes died 22/1 1885 Bugle Ranges. Son John b 1835, son Thomas b 1836 in Kettle,Fife [he died at sea] and they had another son Thomas b 1841 who died 1925 Echunga ...I havent finished listing all their children yet sorry.........
I did find a ref to a Elizabeth Anderson m to a Searle living at Reedbeds at that time...I will see if I can dig this up....
Regards Michelle
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Hi Michelle
Thanks for the interesting post re the names of some of the places. I had come across Woodcott a number of times, and when perusing my old records saw I had a record of Devonbank. Greenside is especially interesting. Have you been able to work out the actual connection between the Greenside in Tullibody and the one here ?
I have gone back throu gh my research and dug up the following records from various Post Office Directories. While I am aware, that they contain many errors, people being recorded in a place from which they have long since left, their first record in a place or presence in an obscure place is alway interesting.
1846 Murray's Country Directory - District of Mt Barker
Anderson, T., Rosebank
Pattison and Subson, Devonbank
1847 Stephens' Town and Country Directory
Anderson, Thomas, farmer, Davenport's Survey
Paterson, Alex., farmer, near Mount Barker
Simpson, Archibald, householder, Hindmarsh
1847 Murray's Country Directory
Paterson, Alexander, brewer, Kensington
Pattisson, Alexander, Mount Barker
Simpson, A., Mt. Barker
1848 Stephens' Country Directory
Anderson, Thomas, Meadows
Paterson, Alex., Mount Barker
1848 Murray's Country Directory
Anderson, Thos., Meadows
Paterson, Alexander, Mount Barker
Simpson, A., Hindmarsh (this record is dittoed down from the record above)
1849 Stephens' Directory
Anderson, Thomas, farmer, Bugle Ranges
Patterson (sic), A, farmer, near Mount Gambier
1849 Allen's Country Directory
Anderson, T., Meadows
Paterson, Alexander, near Mount Barker
Simpson, A., Hindmarsh (this record is dittoed down from the record above)
1850 Murray's Country Directory
Anderson, Thomas, Macclesfield
Paterson, Alex, near Mount Barker
Simpson, A., Hindmarsh
Simpson, A., Mount Barker
Of particular interest, is the repeated record of Archibald SIMPSON at Hindmarsh. I wonder if this is a reference to his residence in "Light's Village", or whether he moved somewhere nearby, before moving up to the Hills.
Also of interest (to me at least) is the mention of the Rosebank and Davenports Survey in relation to Thomas ANDERSON
I was also intreagued by the 1846 record which list them as Pattison and Subson. I wonder if they had particularly strong Scottish accents ?
I had a quick check of BDM's and see that the Alex. PATTERSON record at Kensington is actually another family, but left it in there for completeness.
Darren
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I have a historical buildings paper on Woodcot [Eden Park as it is now known] I haven't been able to locate Greenside,SA where one of the Simpson girls was born ...I have found others born there including another Patterson...it will be a trip to titles office to track it down I think but is definitely in Wistow Strath Maccy Meadows area very likely an early homestead area. The reference to Archibald in Hindmarsh I took as being the area just discussed as it is county of Hindmarsh which takes in the hundreds of Strathalbyn, Koondaparinga,Angus,& macclesfield. I have a list of properties owned by Sandy with section & hundred details so when I get time to go to titles archive office I may find out a bit more......he actually held the property he bought from Col Light from 1839 to 1873 ...a year before he died.
When we were at State Library I was looking at microfiche and had a laugh at the entry Pattison & Subson .....the lady sitting next to me explained that many of the early records often suffered because of accents & litracy....you may have had a yorkshire man taking information from a Scot and also the litracy skills of either or both resident and collector may not have been very good so things got written down phonetically . [She was Maureen Leadbeater...who with her husband has contributed a fantastic amount of information to Family history SA]
The enquiry's I made in Scotland found that all the Ross children attended Dollar Academy with Hugh Ross studying Latin Geometry among other subjects....A friend of the family who eventually set up Church at monarto with George was Rev Alexander Law and have found a reference of him having a school for boys at Hahndorf at one point.....otherwise the children (early Patterson Anderson & Simpson's)would most likely have been taught by their Mothers.
I believe that Archy and Sandy stuck together pretty well from early 1845 to the recorded deaths of Archy and Isabell at Woodcot in the 1860's.
I have sent you a private message with my email address so bounce me an email back and i will send you what I have.
Regards Michelle
PS was your ref to A patterson in Stephens Directory ...farmer "Mount Gambier" a typo?
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Hi Michelle
Sounds like you have done a lot more research than me, especially when it comes to the history of the places our forefathers lived (and the origin of their names). It is great to see.
I do have a couple of Land Title Memorial records which will be of interest to you:
15 June 1848 Archibald SIMPSON sold allotment 235, section 1 in Light's Village for 10 pounds. His details are given as "... of Mount Barker Farmer formerly of Lights Village near Adelaide". I do not have a record for him purchasing this property, but note that it is the neighbouring parcel to Alexander (so am a bit surprised they don't come up in the 1840 census)
8 April 1856 Archibald SIMPSON purchased section 2644, Angas Survey, County of Hindmarsh for 240 pounds. His details are given as "... of [Strathalbyn] Farmer". Two days later he mortgaged the same property to Stephen Rodda. About a year later, he sold the said parcel to Stephen Rodda.
28 July 1849 Thomas ANDERSON was granted section 2833, Hundred of Macclesfield. His details are given as "... Macclesfield Farmer".
They seem a bit incomplete, so I may have to go back and look to see whether there are any other records. Not sure this tells us anything new about the families during the early 1840's, but adds a little more light to the puzzle, particularly that Thomas ANDERSON did not remain close neighbours with SIMPSONS/PATTERSONS
And yes, Mount Gambier was a typo error in my previous posting. Living in Mount Gambier, I occasionally say one when I mean the other. Seems I am not the only one to confuse them - I once received a misdirected letter which said Mount Gambier, but had the Mount Barker postcode. So much for making sure you have the right postcode on a letter !
Have sent an e direct to your email address, with a bit more information
Darren
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Hi Darren
Thanks for those last details. sect 2644 is on boundry of old hundred of kondaparinga and hundred of angus in county of hindmarsh and now has sandegrove rd [main strath goolwa rd running through it and has allendale rd running across nth east boundry.
Sect 2833 of maccelsfield would be further up strath wistow rd [old morningstar rd] and tkes in bugle ranges only a few klm's from Woodcot...maybe they all reshuffled up towards mt barker direction. George Patterson had a property on east of strath wistow rd near Gemmell which was sect 2814 of macclesfield & strathalbyn.
Hundreds of Maccelsfield Strathalbyn Koodaparinga and Angus all connect at the Strathalbyn township boundry's however county of hindmarsh was est in 1841 the hundreds came later.
Just found ref to Stephen Rodda [pg 53 olds strathalbyn & its people nancy gemmell Pub national Trust] described in Reminesences by an resident Maggie [Bell] Richardson ...Stephen Rodda had his house in Alfred Place, although his Blacksmith shop was in High Street.....
As Alexander kept his Light Village property for 34 years [sold it in 1873] they most likely leased them out .....I believe Archibald was up here as early as Emily Montgomery's birth at Greenside in 1842...just a thought but maybe as George [son of sandy & jane] had children also born Greenside maybe it is property near Gemmell which I mentioned above ....?
Just did goggle and found this...
REAL PROPERTY ACT NOTICES.
WHEREAS tho persons named and described at foot hereof have each respectively for himselt made and subscribed declaration before the Registrar-General, setting forth that he is seised of an estate in fee simple in the lands set forth and described before his name at foot hereof, and hath made application to have the said lands brought under the operation of Act of Parliament No. 15 of 1857-8, intituled "The Real Property Act:" Notice is hereby given, that, unless caveat be lodged with me by some person having estate or interest in the said lands, or any of them, or by some person duly authorized on behalf of a person having estate or interest therein, on or before the expiration of the period herein below for each case described and specified, I will pro- ceed as by law directed, to bring the said pieces of land under the operation of the said Act :
HUNDRED MACCLESFIELD-Sections 2833 and
2898 ; Frederick Natt ; Residence, Mount Barker.....
HUNDRED KUITPO-Sections 3406 and 3407 (as
intending purchaser from Alexander Anderson) ; Edward Barnes ; Residence, The Meadows.....
1860.
Dated this thirtieth day of October, one thousand eight hundred and sixty, at the Registry Office, Adelaide, South Australia.
R. R. TORRENS, Registrar-General.
regards Michelle
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Hello Michelle,
I have just started researching my partner's family and noted that you have been heavily involved in the same research. Alexander Patterson is his ggg grandfather and Jane Ross is his ggg grandmother. I have started his tree on ancestry.com and although I have started with a skeleton tree I wanted to ensure all information is correct before moving on. HOWEVER, I came across your rootschat page and I was amazed at the amount of research you have done. I know it was in 2009, so have you managed to get any further information regarding the Pattersons in Scotland? I have been researching my own family history for 30 years (before Google, unfortunately.....)so I know the effort that goes into finding one tiny detail that can make all the difference! Anyway, hope you are still online and at the same email address (we all have to change at some stage), and would love to hear from you. I hope you don't mind if I pinch a few details from your previous blog.
Warm Regards,
Kerry Cue
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Hi Kerrycue,
Good to hear from you!
I am close to the area which the Patterson,Ross, Simpson etc settled which helps with the south australian research...although the scottish side is not as easy.
I am happy to share information.... just check for accuracy yourself, I have been studying this year so I do not have as much time as before to give to this and have brickwalled re Sandys parents as no firm birth date.
I do have a bit more detail regarding their lives in SA and Sandys involvment with the church and sale of properties, form online newspapers.
I have also followed the next few generations in sa in more detail also and most recently found a grandson of Hugh Ross [the son/brother who stayed in scotland] also came out to s.a. Let me know where your partner is in the family and if you are also in sa? Looking forward to hearing from you.
Michelle
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Hi,
I am amazed the research you have done so far it must have been extremely time consuming and difficult. I don't know if I can help but I think Alexander is the George Patterson buried in Monarto Cemetery's grandfather . I don't know Alexander's birthdate all I know is he died 8th of December 1874. George senior, Alexander's son was one of the founding fathers of the Methodist Church in Monarto. His sons John and Duncan are also buried there.The Farm "Banner Rest" was Harold George Patterson's ( George jnr's son) and was later passed on to his son Stanley George. It was requisitioned by the S.A. government for the development of Monarto as a satellite city in the seventies when this failed I believe it was purchased by another family. At some point during the 1980's there was a Patterson family reunion in Murray Bridge for which a booklet was produced outlining our family history back to Scotland. Unfortunately I do not have a copy but my father may have one or access to one I will try and find out for you. Happy New Year from a distant relative.
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Hi Pollypatto,
Great to hear from you and a belated Happy New Year to you also! Sorry to take so long to reply but I am not getting much time on the computer due to the Christmas and great gardening weather. Thank you for your information. Yes, Alexander Patterson is George Patterson's father and George Junior's Grandfather.
This is my partners family, he is a great great grandson of Alexander & Jane's via George's younger brother William. I started this research to pen down a brief family history for both him and for his father, and used the original family history book as the basis for much of the research. Considering very little was available online back when it was written the authors did an amazing job.
I can not take all the credit for all the research as there has been input from many of the branches of your tree including; ancestors of Jane's sister and brother-in-law Isabella Ross and Archibald Simpson, the Anderson family- one of the families who arrived from Scotland with them on the Asia, the Brookes family in Sydney and Canada who are relations of William's wife Philadelphia Brookes, and not forgetting the Lyons & Hill family's.
Are you related to George senior and if so do you happen to know if part of land which is now Monarto Zoo may have been also owned by him ? I saw something about ruins of a barn in the zoo grounds having been built by a George Patterson, but I can't seem to find the reference again.
Kind regards
Joanofacre
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Hi Joan,
Thanks for your reply I haven't had much time on the computer either between work, Christmas and three children. I am George Junior's great granddaughter, Harold George's granddaughter and Dean Robert's daughter if that makes any sense to you. My Dad, Dean said that the barn in the grounds of Monarto Zoo was built by George Junior and used to be part of his farm "Banner Rest". He looked in the family bible and it only goes back as far as George Snr and Janet ( Jessie ) Lyons. He is going to ask his older brother Ralph about Alexander and if he has a birthdate in his records. So we shall have to cross our fingers he will have the answer you need. I will let you know what we find out and get back to you.
Regards Paula Patterson.
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Hi Paula,
Sorry I am the bearer of the sad news that Bill Patterson passed away on Wednesday morning. George senior would have been Bill's Great Uncle, as he was the grandson of George's youngest brother William. Bill farmed at Tarnmar near Eudunda until the early 1970's when he moved his family to Murray Bridge.
The funeral will be held in Murray Bridge on Friday 14th of February, and I think details will be in the Advertiser on Saturday and Tuesday.
Kind regards Michelle