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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: whippety on Sunday 18 October 09 17:11 BST (UK)
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Hi
Can anyone enlighten me please with any info on my gran Nellie Brooks/ Brookes who has also been known as Nellie Davis?
She married my grandad George Edkins on Dec 16th 1906 in Aston. Their marriage cert shows no dad for Nellie, not even deceased, can anyone tell me why please? The only other possible info I have is from the 1901 census where there are 2 Nellie Brooks' in Aston; one Nellie is a "ward" with a family the other has a widowed mum.
When she married my grandad they lived, according to the 1911 census with Nellie's brother called William Davis!! On grandad's war record he names her Nellie Davis as NOK but when she registered my dad's birth she called herself "formerly Brookes" with an "E"! Goodness me it's difficult!!
I can't find a birth record, have tried Ellen Brooks as Nell's were sometimes christened Ellen.
Would appreciate any help!
Many thanks
Sue
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Their marriage cert shows no dad for Nellie, not even deceased, can anyone tell me why please?
Hi Sue and welcome to RootsChat
The most usual reason is that she didn't know who her father was, because she was illegitimate. Some people made up a father's name (I have one in my family) because of the stigma of illegitimacy, but perhaps Nellie was made of sterner stuff than that :D
Unfortunately this doesn't help much with the 1901 census as I'm sure many unmarried women with children passed themselves off as Widows
I shouldn't worry about the Brooks/Brookes thing. I have family names that vary between spellings all the time. Just remember to look for both when you are searching
If you give us Nellie's year and place of birth from 1911, someone might be able to track her down
Linda
PS I wonder why grandad named her as Nellie Davis and not Nellie Edkins?
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Hi all
From other posts, from 1911 Index searches (free), FreeBMD:
George EDKINS , Gas Man, son of William,
b abt Sep 1886
m Dec 1906 to Nellie BROOKES, b abt 1887/1888
1911 Household
William DAVIS 21 (b abt 1890)
Jessie Ann DAVIS 19
Jessie Jotchfiene DAVIS 10mths
George EDKINS 25
Nellie EDKINS 23, b Birmingham (abt 1888)
Nellie EDKINS 3
Rosa EDKINS 3mths (died 1917 age 6? entry on FreeBMD)
BIRTHS:EDKINS in Birmingham post 1911
1912 - G W (male) EDKINS - mms BROOKES
1915 - J EDKINS (male) - mms DAVIS
1919 - Eric EDKINS - mms BROOKES (Sue's late father)
1921 - A V (female) EDKINS - mms BROOKES
1923 - J (male) EDKINS - mms BROOKS
1929 - E. (female) - mms BROOKS-DAVIS
(Big gap between 1923 & 1929 - possible the 1929 could be a child of Nellie jnr??)
MARRIAGE: Sep Qtr 1909 Birmingham
William DAVIS & Jessie Annie ALLCOCK
BIRTHS - Birmingham - mms ALLCOCK
Jessie J DAVIS - Sep Qtr 1910
(Male) W H DAVIS Sep Qtr 1915
(female) F DAVIS Jun Qtr 1918
William DAVIS b abt 1890 is not coming up as born Birmingham in the 1911 searching?
What does the 1911 say of his POB and occupation - it seems that he may hold the key to Nellie's origins.
Perhaps the marriage of William & Jessie would help?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Sleepless night-dog with infected toe at the vets later today and me at hospital to discuss poss knee replacement--sleep seems far off at the moment haha!! Thought I'd come and have a look at the family!
Thank you both for the help. I had wondered if she was illegitamate which I thought might stop the research but it's very interesting where William Davis comes into it all. Yes the 1929 baby is infact a cousin who is still alive but because of her own illegitamacy I find it hard to discuss the history with her, I call her "aunty". I decided to definately phone her this week with some other family news I have for her and see if I can develop the conversation. I'm not sure if she knows I know who her mum was. The E initial is wrong as far as I know, but maybe I can have a look into that.
The Davis clan are interesting too and I'm so grateful with the help with William's marriage; I am excited to look into that now!
Thank you again, it's so kind of you to be bothered with other people's searches like this. I would never have found William's marriage and Jessie's details, although she's a great Aunt by marriage I still feel an attatchment to her and William as they obviously cared for Grandma Nellie. I remember mom telling me gran "went mad" at Nellie junior when she was pregnant -perhaps she knew how bad things could be!
Take care all
SueX
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Ps
Sorry should have said too I will look up the 1911 year and POB for Nellie and I'll look up William's Pob etc too. Grandad called her Nellie Davis on his war record as his next of kin within his war record on "details of marriage", Davis as her maiden surname. They had already been living with William and Jessie then but had moved into their own property before he went to war.
Rosa's death certificate was in his war record too, she died aged 6, that was a sad discovery in the library!
Sue
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Hi Sue
Hope your doggie is doing alright - and you too - and you both had a better sleep the night ;D
Just to clarify, on the WW1 record in the section where it records "Particulars of Marriage" for George EDKINS, it records his bride as Nellie DAVIS, spinster? Is that right? That makes sense now, as I guess before we were wondering why he would call his wife Nellie EDKINS by her maiden name. And it also gives a clear indication, to me, that Nellie was legally BROOKES but was always known as DAVIS, which in turn points to her being illigitimate (when coupled with the fact her marriage cert named no father).
The fact she used BROOKES as her marriying name, and as the mms for all (poss. bar one) of her children either points to her honesty/fear of the authorities catching a lie - it may also be part to do with the possibility her "parents" were never legally married.....
Because I think I've found Nellie on the Census ;D ;D ;D ;D
It will be interesting to see what the marriage of William & Jessie Ann says - I'm hoping it says his father is Joseph DAVIS , occupation Pearl Turner or similar:
1881: 3 Frankford St, Birmingham St George
RG11/ Piece: 3002 / Folio: 98 / Page: 45
Head: Charles BROOKES 52, Candle Stick Maker, b Birmingham
Wife: Harriet 49, b Atherstone Wark,
Son: John H 21, unm, General Labourer, b Birmingham
Son: Francis E 19, unm, Stoker, b Birmingham
Son: George H 15, Scholar, b Birmingham
Dau: Phoebe J 13, Scholar, b Birmingham
Dau: Ada 10, Scholar, b Birmingham
Dau: Catherine M 3. Scholar, b Birmingham
Lodger: John H HARRIS 17, unm, General Labourer, b Birmingham
BIRTH: Phoebe Jane BROOKES - Mar Qtr 1868 - Birmingham
1891: 5c 4 Moorsom Street - Birmingham St Stephen
RG12 / Piece: 2389 /Folio 29 / Page 3
Head: Harriet BROOKES 59, widow, Charwoman, b Birmingham
Dau: Kate BROOKES 14, Pearl Worker Bone b Birmingham
Gran-dau: Ellen BROOKES 3, b Birmingham
1891: 2c 1 Moorsom Street - Birmingham St Stephen
RG12 / Piece: 2389 / Folio 36 / Page 18
Head: Joe DAVIS 23, Pearl Turner,
Wife: Phoebe DAVIS 25, Pearl Turner,
Dau: Nelly DAVIS 3,
Son: William DAVIS 1,
ALL Born Birmingham
I would hazard a quess Ellen with granny Harriet may be the same girl/dau Nelly with with Joe & Phoebe, ie: enumerated twice. But also very possible, Ellen is the daughter of another of Harriet's children.
1901: 2ct, 8h Moorsom Street, Birmingham St Stephen
RG13 / Piece: 2842 / Folio: 118 / Page: 2
Head: Joseph DAVIS 30, Bricklayers Labourer
Wife: Phoebe J DAVIS 32
Dau: Nellie DAVIS 13,
Son: William DAVIS 11,
Son: George DAVIS 9,
Son: Harry DAVIS 4,
Son: Edwin DAVIS 2
ALL born Birmingham
Cheers
AMBLY
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Oooh wonder if Phoebe and Joe married after Nellie was born?
Silly questions but if the 1929 birth is the child of Nellie jnr why would she give her maiden name as Davis-Brooks instead of Edkins?
Great finds Ambly
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Hi JustKia and Sue
You're quite right of course JK - doesn't make sense 8) ;D I wasn't quite with it when I come up with that idea !
I can't find a marriage on FreeBMD between Phoebe (Phebe) Jane BROOK(E)S and Joseph DAVI(E)S anytime before or after 1901 ???
Makes one wonder if there was a legal reason why they might not have been free to do so - it also makes a bit of sense of the BROOKS-DAVIS birth reg - I'm thinking the mother may have been one of Phoebe & Jospeh's younger daughters....
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi all
I found a possible marriage
Sept 1909 Birmingham 6d 195
Joseph Davis and Phoebe Jane Brooks.
Julie
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you are all sooooo kind.
My nephew had a bad accident at work :(( hopefully he's rallying now but everything has been on hold, came back to find so many people trying to help me, thankyou thankyou.
I have printed off all the replies and I am going to sit and have a good read and a think. I will talk to the cousin (1929 baby) esp since I can tell her the news about my nephew and maybe get the subject round......I don't get the maiden name bit;it should be Edkins. Could my gran have said to use her name?
If I can help anyone with anything, anytime,( I can use Ancestory)please do ask.
Cheers all
Sue
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Hi all back again.
If Phoebe and Joseph are Nellie's parents married 1909, this means they got married long after all the children were born. I've asked Brummy Girl for a marriage look up tosee if there's an address on the marriage cert.
I am a plonker! The female child born 1929 is an aunt and she's still living, so she's not the child of Nellie Junior. Therefore her mum will be my gran and the mms is correct, at least for what gran was saying was her ms. Don't know why the big gap between kids then.
Could Joesph have done something to Phoebe to make Nellie use her mother's surname? Could he have been in prison? She obviously made it up with him as she uses Brookes- Davis later. Gosh it's such a mystery.
Thanks all again for all you've done.
SueXX