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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: heathers on Thursday 15 October 09 15:40 BST (UK)

Title: COMPLETED - Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: heathers on Thursday 15 October 09 15:40 BST (UK)
Arthur Horsman died aged 80 on 25 Oct 1935  at 56 Church Road Birkenhead.  I have discovered that this was probably St Catherines Hospital.
His home address was 741 St Pauls Road, Wallasey,  and he was a retired Pharmacist (Shop Keeper).

I believe that he was a widower,  and did not have siblings or children;  although he may have had cousins in the area.

In view of this,  could anyone suggest where he may have been buried.

Also  which newspapers are likely to have had a death notice / obituary?

All ideas gratefully received,  Thanks

Heathers

Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: alan m on Thursday 15 October 09 16:02 BST (UK)
One newspaper could be Birkenhead News it came out twice a week Wednesday and Saturday.The other Liverpool Echo
Birkenhead Library have copies of Birkenhead News and if you send them an email they might look it up for you as you have a date.
For burial you could try Landican crematorium they have records for Birkenhead and surrounding areas.

Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: stanmapstone on Thursday 15 October 09 17:12 BST (UK)
Arthur Horsman died aged 80 on 25 Oct 1935  at 56 Church Road Birkenhead.  I have discovered that this was probably St Catherines Hospital.


Church Road was a Poor Law Institution, and in 1919 the Registrar-General received the sanction of the Ministry of Health to alter the Regulations issued for the guidance of Registrars of Births and Deaths in such a manner as to authorize them to omit all direct reference to Poor Law Institutions in future entries recording deaths of persons therein, and to describe the place of death in such alternative manner as the Guardians may suggest and as may be approved by him. A similar arrangement in regard to births in Workhouses had been operating since the 1st. January 1905, and the alternative address then approved would in future be used in the case of deaths. The alternative address in this case was 56 Church Road.

Stan
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: *sara* on Thursday 15 October 09 21:16 BST (UK)
Flaybrick cemetery is a very large one in the area, there is a 'friends of flaybrick' society, I think the records might be held at wirral archives although i am not certain about tis.
Sara
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: celia on Thursday 15 October 09 22:55 BST (UK)
Heathers
If Arthur lived in wallasey any obituary would be in the wallasey news if family entered one, and he might be In  Rake Lane cemetery.
Would you like me to look up both?

Celia P.S.If he was a widower he might be buried with his wife in Rake lane if she is there
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: heathers on Friday 16 October 09 07:54 BST (UK)
Dear all, 
Many thanks for all the information you have posted.  Stan's explanation of the Poor Law institution is very useful background information for everyone. 

Celia -
I would really appreciate any help you could offer with his burial location or a death notice / obituary.  It would be interesting to know if he was in a purchased grave,  and if so who purchased it.  I do know that he had some distant cousins in the Birkenhead area;  Cooper,  Richardson and Midwood are the relevant names. 
As he was originally a pharmacist,  and came from a reasonably well off family - it may be that the grave was purchased. 
Unfortunately there is no will for him listed in the national probate index.

As for his wife - he married in London,  and she died there shortly after.  I've no evidence that he remarried.  In 1901 he was a widower in Battersea,  an in 1911 he is being totally elusive.

Thanks again to everyone

Sue
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: celia on Friday 16 October 09 11:57 BST (UK)
Sue
the added info puts a bit of slant on finding him,but i will look anyway, What religion was he,each one have there own film.

Celia
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: heathers on Friday 16 October 09 14:28 BST (UK)
As far as we know the family were Anglican,  and when he married in 1885 it was in an Anglican church.

Sue

Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: celia on Friday 16 October 09 16:56 BST (UK)
Sue
I went to library to do some digging before i look through various films.To see if i could find a start date but i cant yet.I have got some names from various directories but no Arthur's,But will leave that for now. " Question  Is the Jessie Elizabeth Horsman that died the same year as Arthur age 70 related.Jessie was registered in wallasey .By a visiting registrar who came once a week.I looked in the index of orbits for any horsman but found none
Was Arthur a pharmacist in Birkenhead or wallasey.

Celia  Forgot to ask ::) is the number 741 St Pauls road correct? the latest book i could find the road in was 1920/21 and the numbers dont go anywhere near that high.
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: celia on Friday 16 October 09 23:07 BST (UK)
Sue
There are very few Horsman in the directories and none of them together in the same one. So took the few that are in case they might be related.

1912 Gores L, Pool and surrounding arias
Horsman. Henry Frederick 29 Eversley St S
               John George Insurance agent 30 Ire ton street Walton N
               Thomas, Blacksmith, Lower Lane Fazakerley

1917/18 Porters directory
Horsman. Vincent, engineer Green Lane Wallasey


1920/21   Willmers directory.
Horsman  V.E. The Dell Green Lane Wallasey
                 Dorothy M. The Dell Green lane wallasey

Postal directory 1925/26
Horsman. Victor, Motor engineer, The Springs Harrison Drive Wallasey

A very apt name to call his house don’t you think

Celia
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: heathers on Saturday 17 October 09 09:37 BST (UK)
Hi

Ive had a better look at the Death Certificate (with a magnifying glass),  and what I thought was the 7 of 741 appears to be 'of' (without the cross on the f) 41 St Pauls Road, Wallasey.

It is possible that Arthur retired from the London area to Wallasey - and did not 'practice' there.

Thanks for all the other directory info - Ive not had time to digest it yet.  Jessie E Horsman  is a mystery.  To be honest I'd not spotted it - we were so pleased to have found Arthur - who has been elusive throughout his life.  Ive had a quick check on freebmd,  and Jessie appears to have married one Thomas Malcolm Horsman in W. Derby RD.  A second marriage for Arthur would have been  interesting.


Sue

 
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: celia on Saturday 17 October 09 11:01 BST (UK)
Quote
Ive had a better look at the Death Certificate (with a magnifying glass),  and what I thought was the 7 of 741 appears to be 'of' (without the cross on the f) 41 St Pauls Road, Wallasey.

Thought as much ;), it would have to be a veeeeery long road to accommodate 741 building ;D

Celia
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: celia on Saturday 17 October 09 17:21 BST (UK)
Sue
Having the correct house number, I have now looked in the Poll books(thats what i call them :) ) .It was my intention to work back through the years to see how long he lived there.He was only in the 1935 book though,with a wife ;D
Number 41 was not in the book previous to that or the year after

1935 has          Men
 R. O  Arthur Horsman
R.  Means He had Resident qualifications
O. Occupation  Qualifications
                       Women
R.W. D.W.  Georgina Horsman
Resident Qualifications
D.W. is  Qualifications through husbands occupations

Celia     P.S. Could Jessie have been Georgina for short
 
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: heathers on Sunday 18 October 09 07:58 BST (UK)
Thats a bit of a turn up  - back to analysing Arthur marriages !
Many thanks

Sue
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: celia on Monday 19 October 09 12:52 BST (UK)
Sue
Thank you for your P.M reply,I am so pleased you have been able to kick start the search for Arthur.Thanks to the wonderful poll book,I can now see if i can find anything on the films.Will P.M. you with any results.

Celia
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: heathers on Tuesday 20 October 09 12:05 BST (UK)
Many thanks Celia for all your hard work with Arthur Horsman.  We now know where he was buried,  and that he was married a second time. 
You have added such a lot to our knowledge of this previously elusive person,  and we are very grateful.

Sue

Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: celia on Tuesday 20 October 09 16:30 BST (UK)
Your welcome sue ;)

Celia
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: Midwood on Saturday 07 November 09 12:46 GMT (UK)
I do know that he had some distant cousins in the Birkenhead area;  Cooper,  Richardson and Midwood are the relevant names. 

Sue


Hi Sue, I'd be interested to know what the Midwood connection is. Some of my Midwoods were in the Wallasey area but I'm not aware of a Horsman connection.  I'd be happy to exchange info if you can let me know which Midwood it is.
Bill
Title: Re: Wirral Burial / Newspaper Query - 1935
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 11 September 10 21:03 BST (UK)
That was excellent research Celia.....well done ..a pat on the back is well deserved.....allan ;)