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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: hedwig06 on Sunday 11 October 09 12:59 BST (UK)
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I wondered if someone could help me....
I have a James Thomas Mernagh born c1846 County Mayo - information from the English census's.
First appears on the 1881 English census.
He marries in Rathdown 1868 to Birmingham born Charlotte Bowley, (I found this info off mayoancestors.com)
How do I find James's family without travelling to Ireland?
Can I apply for his marriage certificate? If so where do I apply? Are there any census information for Ireland pre 1881, or are there Electoral Registers or land registers?
I really have no idea how to go any further back, I have read some of the information available on this site, but they don't seem to answer any of my questions.
I would really appreciate some step by step answers ;D
Thanks Angi x
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To answer a few of your questions-
Can I apply for his marriage certificate? If so where do I apply?
Index to Irish civil registrations is online (free):
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails;t=searchable;c=1408347
Search for bride and groom separately then cross-reference results for matching details.
You can order the marriage certificate from GRO (giving names, year, registration district, volume and page numbers)- form is not properly designed for this sort of common request so just ignore bits that don't apply and include only the details from index that I mentioned.
www.groireland.ie/apply_for_a_cert.htm
Are there any census information for Ireland pre 1881, or are there Electoral Registers or land registers?
1901 is first complete census for Ireland.
I really have no idea how to go any further back, I have read some of the information available on this site, but they don't seem to answer any of my questions.
Have you looked in MAYO RESOURCES? and IRELAND RESOURCES here on Rootschat?- there are lots of topics about directories, church records, etc. which should help you understand what's available.
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Aghadowey,
Thank you.
I have read the Mayo resources here on Rootschat, but there isn't really a mention of somewhere to collect information during the period I would like, i.e, 1840-1881 ish.
I gather the information just isn't there to be found? Without going to the local records office in Mayo....
I will try to find the marriage reference number and send off for it, hopefully it will give me James's fathers name, but after that I don't know how to find the family in Irish records.
I take it there isn't really one place to go for all Irish records? Is there one planned?
Thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions, I know they are probably very basic questions, but I really find the Irish side of genealogy hard to research ???
Angi x
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Don't be afraid to ask questions- unless you do you'll never learn- and we will do our best to answer them.
There is no one place for Irish genealogy which is why it's so important to know where your ancestors lived (parish if not actual townland).
If you are searching for information in mid-1800s before civil registration you'll need to look at local sources like church records (if they exist) and perhaps land records, directories, etc.
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Thank you.
Angi x
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Angi, I can see a Marriage Ref for Charlotte Bowley but cannot see the cross ref for James.
All or most of the information at the North Mayo Family History Centre is now online at www.brsgenealogy.com (pay to view 5 Euro - very expensive) You need to register, and can at least check family names before paying)
Charlotte Bowley / 1868 / Reg. District: Rathdowen
Vol No: 2 / Page No: 992
You could also search on Griffiths Valuation for the families:
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
Dee
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Dee,
Thank you.
All help gratefully received ;D
I really cannot get to grips with the Irish genealogy.
Angi x
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Neither can I Angie and I've been to Mayo twice, spent a fortune and still not found the relevant family. It's all trial and error. Even the staff at the groireland.ie took pity on me when I was searching for records.
Dee
Note: There is a Church Baptism for a James MERNA in County Wicklow - on brsgenealogy.com. It is possible this could be your gentleman?
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Dee,
It could be? But how with Irish genealogy do you prove it? ???
I'm glad its not only me struggling ;D
I have had thought about going to Mayo, but with only the tiny information I have it seems pointless.
Angi x
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Angi, I think I would try and get some more info first. Perhaps apply for the marriage cert for Charlotte. That would give you both parents names and try and work back from there. I have been having a look at some other web sites and I cannot for the life of me see any MERNAGH names cropping up in the Mayo area. They all appear to be in the Carlow/Wicklow area. I noticed that Edward put Mayo on the 1911 Census!!!! There are 2 possible birth registrations for an Edward Mernagh/Merna appearing on:
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start
If you are thinking of apply for it, state both his parents names. The groireland will search 3 or 5 years either side of the birth date for you. Once you get the right birth certificate it will help you moving back thru the families history - she says!!!!
Dee
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Angie, these are the 2 birth I was writing about. I think the first one is a possible. You have to decide whether you want to spend money on what could be 'dud' certs. I think they only charge 3Euro to search - you would need to check the web site.
Edward Mernagh / 1873
Reg. District: Enniscorthy (Carlow or Wexford)
Vol No: 19 / Page No: 731
Edward Merna / 1872
Reg. District: Dublin
Vol No: 7 / Page No: 789
Dee
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Edward Mernagh / 1873
Reg. District: Enniscorthy (Carlow or Wexford)
Vol No: 19 / Page No: 731
From IGI (www.familysearch.org)- free-
Edward Mernagh born 30 Nov.1873 Co. Wexford, son of Patrick Mernagh & Eliza Doyle
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Edward Merna / 1872
Reg. District: Dublin
Vol No: 7 / Page No: 789
Also from IGI-
Edward Merna born 15 Apr.1872 Dublin, Co, Dublin, son of Edward & Rachel Maguire
If you look at a map of Ireland you will see that Mayo is opposite end of Ireland from Dublin.
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Aghadowey, I know where Mayo is (the place haunts me in my sleep), but I have been searching for Angi for the Mernagh family. Up until now, I have not been able to find the family in Mayo and everything seemed to point to the Eastern side of Ireland in the Carlow/Wexford area.
I have now just found another child born to James and Charlotte - IGI & brsgenealogy.com
Catherine Elizabeth Mernagh / Civil Birth 1870 / County Mayo
Father: James Mernagh / Mother: Charlotte Bowley.
I can only assume the father must have been moving around with his work. I don't want Angi buying upteem dozen certs only to find they are the wrong ones. I'm trying to establish a common area for the family prior to their coming to the UK.
I cannot think where else to search to get a 'fix' on the area. Nothing comes up on Griffiths and I don't know why the Marriage details for Charlotte Bowley do not cross refrence to a James Mernagh!!!!
I will go and have another look and think and see what I can come up with.
Dee
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...don't know why the Marriage details for Charlotte Bowley do not cross refrence to a James Mernagh!!!!...
here's a probable match for the marriage from the Civil Index :
Name: Charlotte Bowley
Registration district: Rathdown
Record type: Marriage
year: 1868
Volume: 2 / Page: 992
Name: James Mernaugh
(same index details)
Shane
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Everyone,
Thank you so much.
I have been having difficulty finding any Mernagh's, so any help is great, I have tried, (I think) every link on the Mayo resources page here at Rootschat, without success, but obviously I will have to try searching other areas of Ireland.
I have found 2 births for James and Charlotte Mernagh's children, Charlotte Mernagh 1869 and Catherine Mernagh 1870, both on mayoancestors.com
As to the 2 Edward Mernagh's, I don't really know if they tie on with "my" family, and I suppose the only way is to buy the certificates.
Trust "my" Mernagh family to like travelling ;D
Thanks again everyone, your help is invaluable :)
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The 2 Edward Mernaghs found earlier are in IGI but I can't see a connection with your family yet so I wouldn't rush to get the certificates just yet but the marriage Shane found is worth considering.
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I wondered if someone could help me....
I have a James Thomas Mernagh born c1846 County Mayo - information from the English census's. First appears on the 1881 English census.
He marries in Rathdown 1868 to Birmingham born Charlotte Bowley, (I found this info off mayoancestors.com)
did James and Charlotte have any children born in England ?
if they did then you could confirm Charlotte's maiden name from a birth cert
what does Charlotte give as her place of birth on the census ?
Shane
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Shane,
I have found Charlotte's maiden name, its Bowley from mayoancestors.com.
I have also found them on the 1881 census onwards living in Birmingham, where Charlotte states she was born.
Its more James Mernagh's birth, so I can follow his family back, that I wanted to try and do.
Angi x
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I was just wondering if the maiden surname could be cross-checked using any English birth records based on the census information you already have ... I'm a little worried that the marriage is quite a distance from Co. Mayo...
A marriage cert will give you James' residence, occupation, fathers name and occupation which should help track his birth...
Shane
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Hello everyone,
Catherine Elizabeth Mernagh's birth was registered in Ballinrobe area - I was wondering if James was in the Army perhaps? That could be a reason for their moving from one place to another in Ireland.
The marriage certificate would be a real help as Shane says.
best wishes
heywood
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Heywood,
I had been thinking along the lines of James being in the army, or a profession that required alot of travelling.
What is becoming clear is I'm not going to be able to search for James, that easily :(
As all the Irish boards, threads and resources say that you have to have an area to be able to search for Irish
families, as "my" James seems to be a traveller, thats not going to be easy :D
Thanks everyone for all the input, thoughts and finds. I will wait for James's marriage certificate to arrive and see if it helps.
Angi x
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That's the best bet!
As gorgeous as Mayo is, it would be a waste of time to go there if he was only passing through - as it were.
Please let us all know the results of the certificate.
best wishes
heywood
PS I looked for the Bowleys last night- they seem to disappear from English census - have you found them? (I was curious as to why Charlotte was in Ireland too ;))
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I had a look at some trade directories, newspapers etc last night and saw reference of a couple of Bowley families in Dublin around the right time - one was a solicitor and other some sort of business selling hair dye and potions etc.. Angi let me know if these are of interest and will put the details together for you.
I also had a look though the various English census returns for James and family - 1881/91/01, and see confirmation of the Bowley connection through the nephew (Thomas) in 1891.
Shane
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Hi Shane,
I had James as a bricklayer, I think- is that right?
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as far as I remember he was a Bricklayer/Labourer in 1881/91 and difficult to read in 1901 but something like Coalswader?
Shane
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Heywood & Shane,
I also have James Bowley as a Bricklayer, (1851 census), they then disappear!! I presume they didn't return to England at all apart from Charlotte. Charlotte had 2 brother & a sister, which I cannot pinpoint a marriage for any of them on the English BDM's, or seem to find them on the English census's after 1851 either.
I haven't tried looking at deaths for any of them yet.
I am really curious as to why the Bowley family went over to Ireland, as the majority of people were coming to England from Ireland at that time - Weren't they ???
As to the information you refer to Shane, I would love it if you didn't mind, it could hold some clues/ideas, even if they aren't my direct Bowley family.
Thanks for all your input.
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There is a death for a James in 1859 so that is a possibility but it is too early for an age to be given.
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Just an Update ....
I have finally applied for and received the marriage certificate for James and Charlotte.
It states :-
25/3/1868 James Mernagh, born Co Mayo, father Edward Mernagh a Labourer.
Charlotte Bowley, born Ballybrack, father Charles Bowley, Blacksmith.
SO.....
I have the wrong family for Charlotte??
On the 1881 census, Charlotte states she was born in Birmingham, and the family I have for her, after researching is James and Ann Bowley, who I can't find after 1851 on the English census's.
James and Charlotte have a nephew living with them called Thomas Bowley in Birmingham on the 1891 census, he states he is born in Birmingham also.
When I sent off for the marriage certificate it is stated online it took place at Rathdown, but the certificate I have received states the marriage took place in Monkstown, Co Dublin.
Do you think its the right certificate???
I'm so confused by this family ???
I though this certificate would help me in my search for James Family, but I have been able to find nothing on James, and it has thrown up queries for Charlotte.
Any help would really be appreciated.
Thanks.
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When I sent off for the marriage certificate it is stated online it took place at Rathdown, but the certificate I have received states the marriage took place in Monkstown, Co Dublin.
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Rathdown is a registration district and this contains Monkstown
Monkstown is a village, townland and parish..
p.s. Irish marriage certs do not state where the bride & groom were born - rather their residences at the time of marriage
Shane
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Shane,
Thank you, I'm so excited to finally get the certificate, that I didn't read it properly, it does say residence at the time of marriage - sorry.
But it is a different father than I have....
So Monkstown is in Rathdown, which in turn is in Dublin??
Angi x
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Both Monkstown and Ballybrack are in south county Dublin - not far from Dun Laoghaire/Kingstown
just to complicate things - the registration district of Rathdown includes area in counties Dublin and Wicklow...
Shane
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Well thats as clear as mud :D
I just can't seem to get my head round the irish records :(
Thank for trying to clue me though
Angi x
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Rathdown is one of those registration districts that is divided between counties.. but Ballybrack and Monkstown are definitely in county Dublin
Shane
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Hello Angi,
what was James' occupation on the marriage certificate?
heywood
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Heywood,
Thanks for looking at my thread ...... again ;)
His Occupation is a Labourer - not very enlightening I'm afraid.
Angi x
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Oh it's odd and frustrating ???
Charlotte Mernagh's year of birth in censuses differs from the Charlotte Bowley in 1851 so that supports that it is a different one than we thought previously.
However, there is nothing yet to link with Thomas the nephew. :-\
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Heywood,
Absolutely - I have been looking at records all day since the certificate arrived, there isn't a Charlotte Bowley with Charles Bowley as father anywhere that I can see.
There isn't even an age on the marriage certificate for Charlotte to narrow down the search, it just says "Full", maybe meaning legal age for marriage??
I'm honestly getting a headache from it all :(
I think I'm going to leave it for tonight and search again tomorrow, maybe I am going around in circles.
I really though I'd started to crack the Mernagh's & Bowley's but obviously not.
Thanks for all your thoughts and help.
Angi x
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1911- Edward Mernagh gives County 'Mayho' as p o b and 'Birmingham 1874' in the naturalization etc column.
I can't see that James ever states Mayo does he?
Family Search Pilot has Cappaduff as the baptism place for the girls - I have googled it to see if there are any clues - now wondering if perhaps James was just working at a 'big house'.
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Edward is James Son, and yes he was born in Ireland, I found his birth record on the mayoancestors.com website, and no James never states Mayo as his place of birth, it was just a family idea passed down that he came from Mayo, and the marriage certificate states Mayo as his residence. Also the girls birth records are also on the mayoancestors.com website.
What would it mean if he was working in a 'big house'?
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It's just that searching Cappaduff gives references for a couple of estates so I just wondered if he was employed there - maybe that's why he moved. (Since my previous theory of him being in the army wasn't correct ::))
Does the marriage certificate give any witnesses?
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Yes it does, nothing to do with either family so another dead end
Francis Pilloe & Fanny Tantrum.
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wonderful name- Fanny Tantrum :)
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:D
I know, that's one of the only thing to give me a laugh about this certificate.
Thanks for all your help.
I'm going off-line now, I have to put the kids to bed, I'll check in tomorrow morning in-case you've had any other ideas to help me.
I really appreciate your interest and help.
Angi x
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Family Search pilot:
Marriage 1870- Ballinrobe Frances Tantrim and Stewart Hewitt
baptism- Cappaduff 1871 Louisa Mary Hewitt- mother Frances Eveline Tantrum -father Stewart Hewitt
These are the only Tantrums in Mayo ;)
I think Fanny is in earlier censuses in England and in 1901, Stewart Hewitt (born Westmeath) is in Aston (coincidence) with daughter Louisa Bills, 2 other Hewitts born Belfast and Prt Stewart, Ireland and Stewart is a Missionary of S R S of Ireland ???
I know this has nothing to do with your James and Edward but it does add a bit to them! (juts don't ask me what ::))
The site also has a marriage:
1859 Crossboyne Mayo- Ann Mernagh (father Edward) and Robert Parham.
IGI has several children to this couple -each one a different surname for Ann (variations)
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Heywood,
I have found the Ann Mernagh Marriage as well, but hadn't looked at any children for them.
Could I ask Ireland's GRO to search for James Mernagh's birth/baptism, with a search criteria of father called Edward?
As to Charlotte Bowley, I really don't know what to do, there isn't a Charles Bowley, (father), anywhere, not in Ireland or Warwickshire?
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Could I ask Ireland's GRO to search for James Mernagh's birth/baptism, with a search criteria of father called Edward?
If it's the James mentioned earlier, born c1846 then he was born before Civil registration started in Ireland (1864). The GRO have no birth records before this date.
Parish records would be required to find a baptism before 1864.
Shane
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Shane,
How can I search the parish records living in England?
Angi x
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Some Mayo parish records are available on the pay website of the Irish Family History Foundation..see www.irish-roots.ie (mentioned by Dee in reply #5 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,412058.msg2790717.html#msg2790717)), but it would probably be better to try to narrow down the correct parish first to confirm that records are available for the parish that the family lived in.
Since some of their children were born in Mayo, I think a good first step would be to order certs for these to find a more precise location (which would give you a parish). Hopefully James and family moved back to his own birth parish with his wife and family..
What church did the marriage of James and Charlotte take place in ? (their religion will help check the relevent Mayo parishes)
Shane
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The marriage certificate states the following :-
"the parish church in the parish of Monkstown in Co Dublin".
I have found a couple of birth records for the children but they just state "Mayo" online.
Shane thank you for sharing your information, I really am struggling with this family, why is it the family you really want to research is the hardest ???
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Using the site you highlighted, (thank you Dee),
I have found the following:- James Merna 1846 Co Wicklow.
Is this near Mayo/Monkstown/Ballybrack?
Angi x
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Shane,
Forget the last message, I found how you searched using the father name, and nothing for a James Mernagh with a father of Edward Mernagh.
So back to square one.
Angi x
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There should be more details on the cert about the church..
usually below the details of the names and above the signatures there will be a line something like :
Married in the Roman Catholic Chapel of..
or
.... according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the United Church or England and Ireland..
Shane
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I have found a couple of birth records for the children but they just state "Mayo" online.
...
You have to order research certs from the GRO to see proper details. The information on familysearch is partial ...
remind me of the names and dates of the children born in Mayo and I'll see if I can located the references you need to order birth certs..
Shane
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Hi Angi,
just catching up with the latest posts.
At the moment, I would not pursue James as Mayo born. There is nothing as yet to suggest that he was but we do know that children were born there.
I agree with Shane that a child's birth certificate would be best. I know it won't offer much, but you would get some indication of his job and a location, although the girls' baptisms give Cappaduff.
heywood
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Now, isn't this odd.
I'm just rereading the thread and I must have been thinking that James and Charlotte got married in Mayo but of course it was Dublin!
Then I quoted the Ballinrobe marriage of Frances Tantrum... surely there must be a link there.
The Mernagh children were registered in Ballinrobe (I think) and Fanny Tantrum (assuming its the same one) marries there.
I just wish I knew what the link was ::)
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Shane,
Its states below their name :-
"Parish Church, according to the rites and ceremonies of the united church of England and Ireland after banns by me Henry Johnson".
Under the signatures is the following:- "Certified copy of Entries of Marriages in the General Register Office Roscommon".
Children's birth's I have :-
Charlotte Frances Mernagh 5/4/1869, Co Mayo.
Catherine Elizabeth Mernagh 8/5/1870, Co Mayo.
Edward Mernagh 1872, Co Mayo.
Thanks Shane.
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The Fanny Tantrum I had seen in English census is perhaps wrong.
Family Search pilot has a baptism for her -1850 Dublin, Eustace Street Prebysterian, extracted record so that would link her to Dublin and Charlotte.
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Heywood,
I keep thinking that there's something I've missed as well, just a nagging thing really, I don't know what :)
As to his job, he states Labourer on the marriage cert in Monkstown in 1868.
On the Census's in England -
1881 - Bricklayers Labourer.
1891 - General Labourer.
1901 - Coal Loader.
1908 - Died....
Why was he moving all over Ireland for a labourers job??? Just doesn't makes sense.
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Heywood,
Fanny must be a friend of Charlottes, having both been born in Ireland, but that just backs up the fact I have the wrong Bowley family, even though there's a Birmingham connection through the nephew Thomas Bowley living with the family in 1891.
I have searched again for a Charlotte Bowley born in Ireland and also having a father of Charles and again nothing - very frustrating >:(
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so it was a Church of Ireland marriage...
It depends on the part of County Mayo, but less of the CofI parishes are included on the IFHF website.
I'll look for those birth references..
Shane
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Children's birth's I have :-
Charlotte Frances Mernagh 5/4/1869, Co Mayo.
Catherine Elizabeth Mernagh 8/5/1870, Co Mayo.
Edward Mernagh 1872, Co Mayo.
This is the extracted civil birth record for Charlotte :
Name: Charlotte Frances Mernagh
Baptism/Christening Place: 55, CAPPADUFF, MAYO, IRE
Birth Date: 05 Apr 1869
Birthplace: Cappaduff, Mayo, Ire
Father's Name: James Mernagh
Mother's Name: Charlotte Bowley
the familysearch record states baptism, but it's actualy a civil birth record. The reference number (55) in the place corresponds to the page number on the civil index - see :
Name: Charlotte Frances Mernagh
Registration District: Ballinrobe
Event Type: Birth
Year: 1869
Volume : 9 / Page : 55
Unfortunately it looks like Charlotte died the same year... as there's a death for the same name and district :
Name: Charlotte Frances Mernagh
Registration District: Ballinrobe
Event Type: Death
Year: 1869
Age : 0 (i.e. less than 1 year old)
Volume : 9 / Page : 37
Shane
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similar details for Catgerine :
Extracted Civil Birth :
Name: Catherine Elizabeth Mernagh
Baptism/Christening Place: 60, CAPPADUFF, MAYO, IRE
Birth Date: 08 May 1870
Birthplace: Cappaduff, Mayo, Ire
Father's Name: James Mernagh
Mother's Name: Charlotte Bowley
Matching Civil Index record :
Name: Catherine Elizabeth Mernagh
Registration District: Ballinrobe
Event Type: Birth
Year: 1870
Volume : 9 / Page : 60
I dont see a possible match for Edward at the moment...in either the extracted records or civil index..
Shane
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Shane,
Thinking back, I only got Edwards place of birth of the census information - sorry.
He states on the 1911 census, Mayo, Ireland as place of birth.
Angi x
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Hi Angi,
here I am again with something which may/not have anything to do with our search so just put it on one side for now!
I have been all over the place trying to connect Thomas Bowler nephew.
I got him to parents William and Mary Ann. William gives p o b as Herefordshire in 1871 so I went off and was around there and Monmouthshire but then found another William and Mary Ann -thankfully also in 1871 so realised that was wrong! William works with Brass. :)
Started again- not very easy to find but William on another census says Birmingham! 1841 may have him- parents Thomas and Mary.
Now lost them BUT whilst looking have seen this:
1851 HO107; Piece: 2058; Folio: 193; Page: 32
Thomas Bowley 30yrs Master Black Ornament Maker b Cleverley Shropshire
Mary Bowley 30 yrs b Birmingham
Thos Charles Bowley 4 yrs b Birmingham
The Bowleys seem to come from Herefordshire/Shropshire and it was the occupation that struck me.
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I feel I am now going off at a tangent with the Bowleys - so just ignore me!
The Tantrums are centred around Shropshire too so there seems to be links but too hidden for the time being.
I'm stopping now for the time being. :)
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Heywood - thanks.
I cannot find a Charlotte Bowley with a father of Charles, (stated on Marriage cert.), anywhere, only the family I thought was the right one, of father James Bowley, all hailing from Herefordshre & Birmingham.
I have thought maybe James Mernagh and Charlotte Bowley maybe went to Dublin to marry, because they didn't have parental approval?
They didn't have any fathers, mother, siblings, from either side of the family as witnesses....
Well just a thought, but I can't get over the marriage cert stating Charles as the father ???
Angi x
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....
Well just a thought, but I can't get over the marriage cert stating Charles as the father ???
...
I've lost track... why is Charles as the father's name on the marriage cert a problem ?
Shane
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Shane,
There is no Charlotte Bowley with a father of Charles Bowley, anywhere, no census, no parish records, on anysite I or (I think) Heywood has looked.
Charlotte has a nephew living with her in Birmingham on the 1891 census, called Thomas Bowley, who I have traced back to father of William Bowley brother of James Bowley, who I thought was Charlotte's father.
I'm sure that's as clear as mud :D
I have Charlotte's father as James Bowley born herefordshire, then moving to Birmingham, then moving to Ireland, as the family all disappear off the census's from 1871 onwards. Only Charlotte seems to have moved back to Birmingham, with James Mernagh and their children.
Angi x
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There can be mistakes with father's on marriage certs - I have at least two marriage certs for my own ancestors, where the details on the father's is inaccurate in one case and has the names completely wrong on the other.
As far as I remember that English census for for the family I looked at proved the Mernagh/Bowley link - as the family surname was Mernagh and there was an in-law listed with the surname Bowley. Maybe you could follow that person to see how they fit with Bowleys, and confirm the connection that way.
I had to do something similar for my gg-grandparents. The fathers names on their marriage didn't fit with details we already know from our passed down story, and also didn't fit with any certs, census returns we tried either. Eventually I tracked a niece living my gg-grandparent back to her parents and proved a connection to the gg-grandmother's brother - and were able to prove a link with a family that were the prime suspects all along.
p.s. have you a connection to one of James & Charlotte's children ?
Shane
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Shane,
It actually says Chas as fathers first name, Chas/James, could be misheard I suppose.
As to James and Charlotte's children, they had a son also called James Mernagh born 1884 in Birmingham.
He is my husbands great-grandfather, James b1884 had a daughter called Charlotte Mernagh b1914, who then married William Blair in 1938, who in turn had my father-in-law John b1946.
So it is a direct line I am trying to trace, I also cannot get far on the Blair side either, as William disappeared after WW2, and I can't find him or a death record to trace further back through that line.
Angi x
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Hello again,
I spent years looking for my gtgt grandfather 'John' as per his son John's marriage certificate - he was actually called 'Osborne'.
However back to the Bowleys.
Charlotte Bowley
Free BMD
birth: 1841 Birmingham Vol 16 pg 321
birth: 1848 Aston vol 16 pg 19
1851 HO107; Piece: 2054; Folio: 198; Page: 10
Charlotte Bowley 9 yrs
(parents James and Ann)
Free BMD
marriage 1866 Birmingham vol 6d pg 45 spouse Abraham Windle
1871 RG10; Piece: 3109; Folio: 7; Page: 8
Charlotte 'Winde' b 1842 (husband Abraham)
Death 1877 Charlotte Windle 35 yrs
It may be worth getting the 1848 birth certificate which is far closer to her given birth year in censuses.
Also take care in tracing Thomas back- there are two William Bowleys giving Hereford as p o b and I think it is easy to go on the wrong track there too!
heywood
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I've looked around Warwickshire/Shropshire and Herefordshire in 1841 for any blacksmith Bowleys- nothing that I can see.
There are some living 'next door' to Blacksmiths and in my simple mind, I thought, 'I wonder if they learnt the trade from him?' (Very sad person ::)) ;D
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I am assuming the location of Cappaduff mentioned on the extracted records is actually Cappaghduff. This is in the Civil Parish of Ballyovey (usually the same as the Church of Ireland Parish), and is located on the western edge of Lough Mask in Co. Mayo.
The civil birth certs should confirm if this is the right place.
Even though the town of Ballinrobe is the far side of the lake it is the registration district for Cappaghduff. See google map : Ballinrobe to Capaghduff (http://www.google.ie/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Ballinrobe&daddr=CAPPAGHDUFF,+mayo&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=53.662544,-9.383698&sspn=0.16478,0.438766&ie=UTF8&ll=53.659492,-9.30954&spn=0.082396,0.219383&z=12) This fits with the registration district included on the BMD index records found for the potential births.
It doesn't look promising for Church of Ireland records for the dates you need. Allowing for the spelling variation, I think these are the details available for this parish in the RCB Library :
Parish Ballyovie
Baptisms 1879-1951
Marriages 1854-1954
Burials 1880-1966
It could be that there was another CofI church on the area before these years..
Shane
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That's what I took it to be Shane.
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Thanks for all the information, I think I will send off for one of the girls birth certificates, if the dates work out, if not I don't think there's much more I can do, I will have to shelve this family for a while :(
Angi x
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Even though the marriage took place in a Church of Ireland church it is possible that it was a mixed marriage - i.e. James was RC and Charlotte was Church of England...
As far as I can see Cappaghduff and the Civil parish of Ballyovey are in the Catholic parish of Tourmakeady and unfortunately it doesn't look like these extend back far enough to trace much detail on James and his family (if that is where he was from originally).
see : Tourmakeady RC Records (http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Mayo&parish=Tourmakeady&churchid=1049)
Baptisms : Aug 26 1869 - Dec 26 1880
Marriages : 1869 - Sept 5 1880
National Library of Ireland - microfilm Pos. 4216
Records for this RC parish (possibly with some additional dates..) seem to be listed on the IFHF website as :
Ballyovey (Partry & Tourmakeady)
Baptisms : 1860-1900
Marriages : 1847-1900
Shane
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Thanks for all the information, I think I will send off for one of the girls birth certificates, if the dates work out, if not I don't think there's much more I can do, I will have to shelve this family for a while :(
Angi x
Hi Angi,
it certainly does look as though the girls are the right family (fingers crossed). Please keep us posted.
heywood :)
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Just remembered there is that birth of Charlotte Bowley 1848 Aston - that would fit and maybe worth a try.
Just found that 1851 has a Charlotte Bowler b 1848 Aston :-\ with a couple called Mudman/Muddiman. ???
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Do you remember Ann Mernagh who also got married in Mayo - mind you not in the same area -she too had a father Edward. She married Robert Parham.
They are in 1901 vensus and it says she is born County Wexford.
There are lots of Mernaghs in Wexford though. :(
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I will look into the Ann Mernagh lead, and I might order her marriage certificate with one of the girls birth certificates....
Do all Irish marriage certificates only have the age as "full", or is it just my Mernagh's being a pain again ;)
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most give 'full' as age... this means age 21 or over
Shane
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Thanks Shane.
:)
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I just stumbled upon your post and I don't know if this will help you at all or not, but I am a descendant of James Merna of County Wicklow. The spelling is different, but as this Merna immigrated to the U.S. the spelling could have been changed.
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Hodges,
My James didn't emigrate he stayed in Birmingham and died Sept 1908 in West Brom, Birmingham.
Thank you for repyling though as sometimes there is a link and heaven knows I need a break with this family :D
Angi x
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I have only begun my adventure in Genealogy.
I stumbled across this discussion and would like to give a big Thank you to all who have contributed.
James Mernagh is my Gt-Grandfather, his second youngest Nora Mernagh is my grandmother (my father's mother)
Nora was born in Birmingham 1888 and when she was 13, she attended boarding school in Mespil, Ireland (Singleton School) based on 1901 Census of Ireland