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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Dorset => Topic started by: Lydart on Sunday 15 October 06 22:47 BST (UK)
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Having been to Dorset last week, and finding the places my ancestors came from, it just occurred to me ... does any RootChatterer have a Tolpuddle Martyr ancestor ? I went to the museum, and it was a real eye-opener to find out just how little the ag.lab's we all have had to live on.
Anyone who hasnt been there yet, visit the museum at Tolpuddle ... its FREE !
Or look at their web-site
http://www.tolpuddlemartyrs.org.uk
Lydart
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I am not a descendant but but my best friend is a direct descendant of James Brine
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I am descended from a Tolpuddle Hammett cousin of James Hammett. Museum there is very good, so is the rally there each July.
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Mmn - I've got (connected by distant marriages, she adds hastily), one of the 'nasty' ones - James Frampton, Lt Col of the Dorset Yeomanry....
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would that be Magistrate James Frampton?
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Yep.
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ok, just there's a few James Framptons about in that area.
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No - definitely THAT one. His grandfather, William built Moreton Hall and the obelisk. James Frampton's sister, Mary, was apparently, much more compassionate and wrote a book, which was reputed to offer interesting social commentary. She died aged 76 in 1846.
The family, perhaps unsurprisingly, had links to the West Indies and the plantations.
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Yes, I have heard of Mary's diary. You don't know what became of George Loveless's friendly society membership book which he took after arresting them all? No one seems to know what became of it, not at Kew, TUC or Dorchester RO?
Have been passed Moreton Hall, by a strange co-incidence a descendant of James Hammett TPM's future husband lived in a tied cottage there as a child, his parents working for the estate! Believe Richard Frampton-Hobbs (former MP UKIP) lives there now, and has an equestrain centre there.
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Hi
I have only just come across this site after tracing the family tree for about 4 years. I discovered just over a year ago that James Hammett was my gggg grandfather. This discovery answered a lot of questions about my childhood.
I can't tell you how proud I am.
I came across some interesting information about him just by browsing the site last night, and have joined tonight!
Did you go to the festival this year? It was amazing - and the first time my daughter and I had been. We were treated like vip's - it was so moving.
Hope to meet some more relatives ! and would love to hear from anyone who has any info about the martyrs... it's now become a family affair!
Kind regards
Kathy
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WOW ! And welcome to RootsChat ... I found the Tolpuddles museum most moving, and uplifting, as my ancestors were ag.lab's just a few miles from Tolpuddle, at the time of the martyrs, and must have known about them.
Congratulations on being related to one of them ... not that you did anything to be so, but nevertheless, you must be, as you say, extremely proud !
I hope you enjoy being a member of this site; its so helpful, full of knowledgeable people, and experts all over the world. I'm in UK, put a query about Canadian ancestors on site, and got the questions answered by someone in Australia ! No doubt you too will be able to help someone with a query, and then uou feel its all worth while !
How about adding some personal details, if you want to (no compulsion) to your profile page, so we know where you are ? It makes it easier for people to help you, for e.g. if you are in USA, it doesn't help to be told to visit Kew !
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Kathy did you get my email of 26/07/07?
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Lydart many thanks for your advice regarding the site. I am still getting to grips with it and exploring, but I will most certainly complete my profile.
It was actually Rhodie who told me that I was related to James Hammett. I had heard the name mentioned as a child, but had never explored the maternal side.. Thanks Rhodie - We actually met at the Festival this year which was great. She has been a mine of information to me.
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There's an article about the Tolpuddle Martyrs on pp. 46 & 47 in the October edition of Family Tree Magazine ... including some info about James Hammett.
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Is that magazine available at newsagents? You can tell I'm new to this!
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I got mine at W H Smiths ! October issue, price £3.30 ... and there's other interesting stuff in it too ...
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Excellent... are you related in any way
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No ... I almost wish I was ! But as I said, I have Dorset ancestors who came from a few miles from Tolpuddle; my only claim to militancy is that my Granny was a suffragist, and my grandfather was a Liberal councillor in London !
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On sale WS Smiths now!
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Even W H Smiths (sorry typo - had fall yesterday - hand injury (thanks for email Kathy, do you have dates and names of Mabel's siblings & dates?)
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Hi Rhodie
I have Mabel's siblings names but no dates I'm afraid.
William older by a few yrs maybe 4, married Audrey they have about 8 children and lived in Merstham, Surrey in the 60's
Mabel 28/02/1912
Beatrice was a nurse do not know here she lived or about marriage.
George lived in Berkshire was a shepherd. Had a wooden leg - not sure how that happened.
They were about 3 yrs apart I think. They used to visit occasionally - remember I lived with Fanny - Mabel's mother. also used to stay in Merstham with Uncle Bill.
Do you need any details of Fanny's siblings? I do know that John her brother
who married Audrey and lived in South Petherton, had a daughter Orpah (strange name) who emigrated to Australa.
Speak soon
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Lydart what did you think of my article? They had to cut it quite a bit, space was short, orginally had more on the informers and their offspring.
Kathy I have them all up to 1901, and from FreeBMD then the info you gave me. Did Alice have offspring, couldn't find any WW1 death for Frederick did he have offspring, or Nora's offspring, and Lily? Have 2 offspring for John (perhaps you might meet up in Oz with his offspring?)
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Rhodie - got the magazine and the article was great!
I think Alice's offspring were Mabel and Vera Brown. Something odd must have happened to Alice - she was the psychic one - because Mabel went to live with her grandmother Harriet along with my grandmother Mabel. They called Mabel Brown 'Bessie' to avoid any confusion. They were cousins but brought up as sisters, and went to school in Winterborne Kingston. My great grandmother Fanny who brought me up (!) used to have a lovely photo of them together when they were about 12, dressed in long dark dresses, with white smocks over the top, and button-up boots. Their hair naturally straight had been tied up in rags to make it curly !. I have lots of snippets of information like this, living with my great grandmother Fanny from the age of 6 until I was 16.
Vera Brown was sent away to some kind of 'boarding school' until she was 16. She married Charles Sharp and they lived in East Stour. Because of an accident in childhood, she was unable to have children, and adopted 2 boys, Robert and Terry from Barnardos in London. I believe Terry still lives and works in the Shaftesbury area. Robert joined the army - national service in the 60's. I'm not sure of his movements but I believe he married a Dorset girl. Vera was a very accomplished cook and seamstress. Knitted all sorts,crocheted etc and taught me as a child. These were skills she had learned in the 'boarding school'.
I do not know much about Frederick except that he was killed in the trenches in France in WW1 - He must have been quite young and apparently it broke Harriet's heart. I have come across it before.
When you mention Nora, I think you mean Frances. Again I do not know much about her except that she was not a well woman and spent some time in a sanitorium somewhere.
Aunt Lily was a real character and lived in a tiny hamlet called Deanland, about 2 miles from 6d Handley. Her husband Steve Kimber only had one arm - I never met him, he had passed away before my time. I often used to have holidays there with Fanny her sister. They were like chalk and cheese. Lily was slim and looked like Harriet where as Fanny was stout apparently like her grandfather she used to say
Lily had 4 children I think, but I only remember 2 sisters. I can't remember the younger sister's name and only saw her a couple of times, but the other one was Bessie who lived in 6d Handley and had about 6 children. Her married name was Chalk I think.
Yes you are quite right -there were 2 offspring for John. The other was my uncle Percy who maried Eileen from Ely,and they had a son Paul a little older than me. They lived somewhere near Cheddar Gorge. Wouldn't it be great to meet up with Orpah in Australia?
Do you have any dates for Mabel's siblings? I have not been in touch with any of them since was 16.
I would like to find out the dates of death for Harriet and Henry Collis but have been unable to trace them. My grandmother used to tell me that her father Henry died just after Harriet from a 'broken heart'. Apparently they were inseparable. How lovely in those days of hardship.
Let me know if I can be of any further help Rhodie.
Kathy
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How great is this site? I have only been on a few times - browsing for any extra info on James Hammett ( my gggg grandfather) and now know who he was 'assigned to' in Oz, where he went, and even the name of the ship that brought him home.
What a clever bunch you all are!! Thank you!
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Hi,
I have recently discovered a possible connection to the Tolpuddle Martyrs, George and James Loveless which I'm yet to confirm so would love to hear from anyone that has any further informtion that may help.
My GGG Grandfather Stephen Loveless was born abt 1816 in Dorset, he is recorded as an Ag Labourer atTolpuddle right up till 1891 when he retired, he married Elizabeth abt 1837 in Dorchester and they had the following children who where all born in Tolpuddle, Dorset.
> Elizabeth 1838
> Ursula 1840
> Emma 1846
> Jane 1847
> Maria 1848
> Stephen 1843
> Samuel 1851
> Sarah 1853
> James 1855
> Mary Ann 1860
Could Stephen be a possible brother or cousin to George and James Loveless?????
Cheers
Nari
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Hi Nari,
Have you had a look at the Tolpuddle page on www.opcdorset.com ? You might find a link by checking baptisms and marriages.
Good luck!
Nanny Jan
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Hi,
Thanks to Rhodie I've now found a connection to the Tolpuddle Martyr's, not through the Loveless side like I thought but through James Hammett, seems James was the brother of Elizabeth Hammett my GGG Grandmother who married my GGG Grandfather Stephen Loveless. Stephen and Elizabeth's daughter Elizabeth married Edward McGovern and they eventually moved to Australia in 1869.
Now to find the Loveless connection, as I'm pretty sure there is one.
Thanks again Rhodie for your help.
Cheers
Nari
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Hi Lydart,
I've only just come across the thread.
One of my friend's, a doctor fom Nottinghamshire, is descended from the Tolpuddle martyrs - not sure which one, but her family still live in Dorset.
Must find out!
Paulene :)
ADDED: From one of the Loveless brothers.
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Here's some sites ...
http://tolpuddlemartyrs.online-today.co.uk/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolpuddle_Martyrs
http://www.thedorsetpage.com/history/Tolpuddle_Martyrs/tolpuddle_martyrs.htm
and the Tolpuddle museum site ..
http://www.tolpuddlemartyrs.org.uk/
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I have a long Dorset lineage, but am not descended from any of the Martyrs (as far as I know). However, for years it has been a treasured family story that one of my ancestors took his whole family out to pay their respects as the Martyrs were being taken for transportation. According to the story, my forebears stood at roadside and the men and boys raised their hats !
Mark
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Hello Mark. Welcome to RootsChat ...
Happy election day !
The sites mentioned further up this post may be very useful to you in finding ancestors in Dorset ...
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Thanks, Lydart !
In fact, I've managed to spend the whole afternoon looking at all these Dorset sites today, instead of working. ::)
Before that, though, I did my bit to make sure that it IS a happy election day and that we don't get the same Prime Minister back !
Mark
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(I think you will !)
But we mustn't be political on this site ...
I assume you've found the Dorset OPC site ? Its the best OPC site in the country I think ...
... and if you go to 'edit your profile', and enter your Dorset names, you may find others on here with the same family names ...
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Hello Mark,
I am interested in your Durrant lineage in Dorset, any connections to the ones from Stourton Caundle?
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Hello Mark and Rhodie, I am descended from the Stourton Caundle Durrants! Loammi was my gg grandfather. What's your connection, Rhodie?
:)
Linda
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Hi there
Interested in Eli Durrant 1886
Miles - is there a connection to Tolpuddle?
Allen - is there a connection to Winscombe/Wedmore in Somerset?
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Hi Linda and Rhodie,
I am the gggg-grandson of Manuel Durrant (b, 1767 in Stourton Caundle). On the principle that this thread should probably be kept to the Tolpuddle Martyr theme, I have sent you the details via PM. ;)
Mark
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On the principle that this thread should probably be kept to the Tolpuddle Martyr theme, I have sent you the details via PM.
Good point, well made, Mark. I've done the same.
:)
Linda
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The Durrant name married a descendant of James Hammett Tolpuddle Martyr.
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Have Loveless in the extended family tree (Berkshire 1930s) don't know of descent from TPM. Also have convicted Swing Rioter in the tree from 1830s of which I'm quite proud, together with two transportees to Australia.
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Hi - have just discovered through a cousin that we too seem to be related to James Hamnett - does anyone have any information on his son William?
Kind regards
Tina G
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Welcome Tina !
I hope it doesnt take you another 15 months to post something ;D and that someone can help you with James Hammett.
Have you checked out the Dorset OPC site ? Its very good !
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Hi Tina G
Is the name Hamnett or Hammett?
You can contact me off line on
Moderator comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the Personal Message system to exchange such information, thanks.
if you think you fit in with the Tolpuddle Hammetts.
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Sorry email address should read
Deleted
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Message for Taffi52
My 3rd Great Grandfather's bother a Charles Naseby was also transported on the Ship Surrey I. I notice you show a picture of this ship could you please let me know where you obtained the picture as I would like a copy to use in my family book.
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Apologies if this information has already been posted elsewhere, but anyone with ancestors who were Tolpuddle Martyrs (or connected to them) might like to know that Bill Douglas's feature film "Comrades" (the feature film made by Channel 4 back in 1986) has just been re-released by the British Film Institute to celebrate the 175th anniversary of the Martyrs. (Full details can be found on Google, Internet Movie Data Base, Amazon etc.)
My own connection to the Tolpuddle Martyrs is through my 3 x great-grandmother, Margaret SNOOK, whose illegitimate daughter Elizabeth SNOOK married their leader, George LOVELESS (she is played by Imelda Staunton in the film!).
Pennie
Moderator Comment: topics merged
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You probably have this already but I saw a book for sale on Ebay (yesterday I think) on the Tolpuddle Martyrs with the author named as a Loveless from memory.
Marion
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My cousin (x times) was James Hammett TPM. Welcome hearing from anyone who is also a Tolpuddle Hammett.
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Don't forget the Dorset Machine Breakers of 1830. There is a very good book written by Jill Chambers which tells the story of the 1830 riots ISBN 1-903049-02-4
The autumn and winter of 1830/1831 saw some of the worst ever disturbances in rural England. The trouble started in Kent and quickly spread to other counties in Southern England including Dorset.
A special Commission was held at Dorchester in January 1830 which reesulted in the imprisonment of a number of men and the transportation of some of them to Australia.
The book gives details of the men who were tried for machine breaking and arson during 1831. Deatils include the offence, sentence, description of the men, and in many cases family details.
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There was a Luffman who was involved with the machine breakers in I think Wiltshire. I believe that he was sentenced to 7 years transportation which was commuted after representations from his employer.
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Minnieccat ... do you have a copy of that book ? I can't find a 2nd hand copy anywhere online ... and its £35 new ... :o ...
Is there a name index ? If so ... any Trowbridges in it please ??
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I have a copy of the book. I bought my book sometime ago direct from the author Jill Chambers, email:Jillchmbrs@aol.com
http//ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Jill_M_Chambers
I haven't checked the above email address or web site to see if it is still in
operation.
I have looked in the index but no Trowbridges in it.
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Thanks for looking for me :D I'll try the library instead of forking out lots of £££ !!
The link doesn't work, by the way ...
... it gives this message:-
We're sorry to inform you that on July 6, 2009, CompuServe OurWorld was shut down permanently. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
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So what happened to the data they had?
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Don't forget the Tolpuddle Martyrs Museum has a vast stock of books, and they do mail order too. Would that book be Tolpuddle - an historial account through the eyes of George Loveless?
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I think this may interest you in finding out more about the Mitchell connection with the Tolpuddle Martyrs
LANE - John Lane (1769-1840) was a churchwarden and tenant farmer of the Grove
family at Lower Bridmore, which lies east of Berwick St John. He was born at
Hangar Farm, Eling, near Southampton, the son of John Lane and Betty ATKINS.
The Lane line can be traced back to about the year 1500, a family probably living at
Silkstead, near the village of Hursley, south of Winchester.
John Lane acquired the tenancy of Lower Bridmore in 1798. He married Mansel
MOORE, only daughter of Stafford Moore, at Fontmell Magna in 1805. The couple
had eight children;
1. Mansel (1806-1861). M. James BRINE, farmer of Tolpuddle and first cousin to his
more famous namesake, James Brine, the Tolpuddle Martyr. One child.
6
2. John (1807-1873). Brewer of the Wenlock Brewery, Islington, London. M. Eliza
Bevan MITCHELL of East Orchard in 1837. Five children.
3. Elizabeth (1810-1839). M. Richard Tewkesbury CHAMEN, a London wine
merchant, in 1838. No children.
4. Mary Ann (1812-1877). M. William Young FOOT, farmer of Melbury Abbas.
One surviving child.
5. Stafford Moore (1814-1868). M. in 1850, Louisa FUTCHER of Fovant. Became
Farm Bailiff at Spye Park. See photo of portrait on Photographs / People page. Five
children.
6. William (1816-1848). Buried in the family tomb, Berwick St John. Did not
marry.
7. Thomas (1819- 1847). Ditto.
8. James (1826-1863). M. in 1851, Dionisia Futcher, younger sister of Louisa, above.
James and Dionisia farmed at Alfriston, Sussex. James suffered bad health and died
of TB on St Helier, Jersey. Five children. (James was the direct ancestor of both
John Lane & Valerie Lane Kay).
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Hi
I have only just come across this site after tracing the family tree for about 4 years. I discovered just over a year ago that James Hammett was my gggg grandfather. This discovery answered a lot of questions about my childhood.
I can't tell you how proud I am.
I came across some interesting information about him just by browsing the site last night, and have joined tonight!
Did you go to the festival this year? It was amazing - and the first time my daughter and I had been. We were treated like vip's - it was so moving.
Hope to meet some more relatives ! and would love to hear from anyone who has any info about the martyrs... it's now become a family affair!
Kind regards
Kathy
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Hi Taff.52
Iwas interested to see Sinnick as one of your surnames. My GG Grandfather was George Sinnick Born 1824. Does he have a connection with the Tolpuddle Martyrs or with you?
Joy23
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Joy sent you a PM on the 28th Jan, you are related by marriage very distantly.
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George and James Loveless are distant relations to me. My 6th great grandfather, John Loveless, is their grandfather. I only recently discovered this. Also Their sister Dinniah married Thomas Stanfield. Very proud to be related to such people and will definitely be attending the festival in 2013.
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I think the grandfather of George & James Loveless (TPMs) was John Loveless. Thomas was their father.
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I think the grandfather of George & James Loveless (TPMs) was John Loveless. Thomas was their father.
Yes, John Loveless. Amended
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Hi,
I believe I may have a very distant relationship to George loveless through my Vincent/snook line and also to James Hammett through the vin cents. Still working on the proof. My main interest is the time spent in Australia by the convicts. Can anyone give me any clues where to find information on the time spent in Australia? I live in too sunny Queensland where we desperately need some of your rain.
Andcarred
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Hi ...
I was most interested to read your post - and hence the speedy reply!
I also have a connection to George LOVELESS through the SNOOKs and VINCENTs, but via George's wife.
My direct ancestor, Margaret SNOOK, daughter of Nicholas SNOOK and Margarent VINCENT, had an illegitimate child, Elizabeth SNOOK, in 1798. Margaret married Joseph SPRACKLEN in 1803 and Elizabeth - as "Elizabeth Snook SPRACKLEN" - married George LOVELESS, leader of the Tolpuddle Martyrs in 1824. In TM histories she is referred to as "Betsy LOVELESS".
Is this the same connection that you have?
Pennie
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i have an ancestor mary loveless who married a joseph gudge in 1820 she was born and lived in dorset and ive been trying to find out who her parents were and to see if she is related to the loveless family who were involved in the tolpuddle martyrs but im not having much luck
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Looking through all of these amazes me to see the amount of people related to each other!!
My Great grandad (x4..I think :S) was Thomas Standfield, We have a massive family tree at home linking everyone together its insane to think about all the people who we are related to in 3 different continents!
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i still havent found if my mary loveless is connected to this family she was born in dorset 1800