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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: ellie_k on Wednesday 07 October 09 23:00 BST (UK)
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Hi all!!
I'm looking for information on my granduncle John Kelly who left Tuam, Galway, Ireland in 1922 )aged 20/25) and emigrated to Brooklyn, New York. I believe he may have work part time for the NY fire department. At one stage he was owner/manager of a pub called The Sheebeen at 22 Flatbush Avenue, Brooklyn. This pub is no longer there. He died in the late 1960's.
He had 3 daughters, one called Margaret Mary (or Mary Margaret) who I believe may have been a lawyer. Another daughter married a Schneider gentleman I think, and may have moved to Queens/Long Island.
If anyone has any information, no matter how small, I would be so grateful!!
Thank you,
Ellie
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Ellie, welcome to RootsChat.
As you can imagine, John Kelly was a fairly common name. I looked through the 1930 census, in Brooklyn, for a John Kelly, fire department, and didn't see your John. Of course, he could have worked for the fire department during a different time period. I also didn't see any mention of a pub. He also could have lived in a different part of New York during that time.
Have you found his immigration record? I'm guessing no, since you aren't too sure about his date of birth. If we can find his immigration, we may get more clues about him.
Would you know John's parents names, please? It might help locate his immigration record. If we do find him on a 1930 census, we will send you a private message about any children who might be listed. (We would want to keep their information private.)
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Hi Lisa!
I've got more info on John. His birth year is 1896. He married a lady named Nora (nee Burke) who was also from Ireland. His parents names were Michael and Margaret Kelly (nee Higgins). I also understand that he had twin daughters. Thanks for all your help!!! Ellie.
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Hi Ellie:
There isn't any change this could be your John, is there?
John Kelly, born c1895, Ireland, immigrated with wife Nora on 11 December 1922 (arrived). He birthplace was Ballindine. Her father was Mr. Patrick Bourbre?, The Mountain, Ballindine, Ireland.
I will ignore this record if there's no chance it could be them. There is additional information, including the fact that they were destined for New York to their sister-in-law, Sarah Woods.
PS Are you positive he immigrated in 1922?
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Yes Lisa she was from Ballindine, Irishtown, Galway!!! Burke our Bourke was her maiden name!! wow cant believe you found that info! Thats fantastic!! where can those records be found??
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Found his immigration, posting in a minute.
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Just saw your reply. Hmmm, let me post the latest information.
John Kelly, arrived 11 September 1922, born c1897. Travelled from Liverpool England to Boston, Massachusetts on board the Bolivian. John was single. He was a Seaman(?). Last permanent residence: Tuam, Ireland. Mother: Margaret Kelly, Tuam, Co Galway Ire. Final destination: Mass Boston.
He was previously in the U.S. "only as a seaman".
Joining relative or friend: 5 Causway St Boston Mass. States he is staying permanently.
5'6", med complexion, brown hair, blue eyes. Born Tuam, Ireland.
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Cant wait to see it!!! Thank you so much Lisa for all your help!
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See above post for immigration record, please.
In the middle of the first page of the record, is: "Admitted at San Francisco Calif Feb 14 1923
Head tax 8(00?) Received at Boston Mass 14 1923 __ Money Order(?) __392265"
John is the only name on both pages of the immigration record.
Paperclipped to the bottom of the second page is
landed Boston
date of landing Jan 15 1922
Name of S.S Bolivia n. The date of examination was Feb 15 or 18, 1923.
Changing the remarks a bit, as I'm not sure we can copy wording exactly. Signed on the vessel in England; it was a freight steamer. in Liverpool England on May 28 1922. States now employed on coastwise S.S. Orient.
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so he went to Boston and not New York like we've always thought! ???
Can I ask where you got this info Lisa?
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Arriving in New York on 11 December 1922 on board the Celtic were John and Nora Kelly.
John was age 27, married, Farm Laborer, last lived in Ballindine. Father-in-law was Patrick Bourbre, The Mountain, Ballindine, Ireland. John was destined for New York, New York.
Nora, wife, was age 27, married, Hsewife, with the same information as above, except it is noted Patrick was her father.
They were travelling to Sister-in-law Mrs. Sarah Woods, 209 East 53rd Street, New York, N.Y. She is noted as s-i-l for both John and Nora.
John was 5'9", fresh complexion, black hair, brown eyes. Nora was 5'4", fresh complexion, fair hair and grey eyes. Both born Ballindine.
John's features don't match up to the prior immigration record.
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I found the information on one of the pay-sites (A...y).
You might be able to find it on Ellis Island. I've never used that site, as my rellies arrived in Canada, or prior to Ellis Island.
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This sounds more like my granduncle, it matches some of the info we have with regards to area he was from in Ireland, his wife and her father, and the fact he went to New York and not Boston. How do I go about finding his daughters?
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Just having a look around on the 1930 census for them. So far, haven't found them. Will continue to look (mostly in New York).
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;D ;D
Will post in a moment.
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;D ;D ;D
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Living in Brooklyn, Kings County, New York were
John Kelly, born c1897 in Ireland. Living with him were his wife, Nora, and three daughters, including twin girls. Will send their information by pm, due to privacy concerns. John and Nora were married at age 24. Both born in Irish Free State, as were their parents. They both immigrated in 1922. John was a Chauffeur, Railway Express Co.??
Living with this family were
Herbert Burke, brotherinlaw, age 32, married at age 29, immigrated 1913?, Waiter, Restaurant.
Delia Burke, sisterinlaw, age 33, married at age 30, immigrated 1921?.
John Burke, brotherinlaw, age 25, single. Ticket Agent, Railroad, Immigrated 1921.
All were born in Irish Free State, as were their parents.
Living at 22 St. Charles Place.
More to follow in a minute.
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Lisa I cant believe this! Its definitely them, they had twin girls and Nora had a sister called Delia. I know its sounds corny but im absolutley thrilled you've helped me so much (and a bit teary if I might add!). My family will be so happy. I cant thank you enough. ;D
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Also living at 22 St. Charles Place, but apparently in a different apartment?, were
John E. Woods, head, age 42, married at age 32, born Ireland as were his parents. Unknown immigrated date. He was a Clerk, Railroad.
His wife was Sarah A, age 36, married at age 26, born in Ireland as were her parents. Unknown immigration date, Dressmaker, Dresses.
Living with them was Margaret Kelly, sisterinlaw, age 35, widowed, married at age 30. Born Ireland as were her parents. Immigrated 1910. She was a Dressmaker, Dressmaking Est.
Living with them were two daughters. Will not list them, due to privacy concerns.
A lodger was living with the family: John W McLean, age 37, born in Canada English. He was a Foreman, Express Co.
The Woods and John's families are listed at 22 St. Charles, but John is listed as "Head", so perhaps they were in a flat, or something?
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You are quite welcome, Ellie. ;D I've been helped so much by others, it's the least I can do. You haven't run across my Wakefield ancestors in Tuam, have you? ;) Just kidding; they left Tuam in the 1830's. ;D
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LoL looks like many people left Tuam!! I've been there, its not so bad!! cant say I encountered any Wakefield's though!! I have John's daughters names, he had three in total so the other was probably born after 1930. do u know the girls ages then??
I'll log back on in the morning, its way past my bedtime!!!
Thanks so much again Lisa, night night.
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I've just sent a pm (giving information about the daughters from the census). As I mentioned in the pm, I have to stop soon, as well. Perhaps someone might be able to continue where I've left off. ::)
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I received the PM ;D once again thank you so much for all your help, this is the furthest that anyone in my family has ever got trying to trace John, and it's all down to you :) a huge thank you from all the Kellys!!! ;D
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You are quite welcome, again. Have a good night's sleep. :)
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I am not finding anything for the daughters. Are you interested in the Burke's?
Herbert Burke has a WWI draft registration card. He was born August 4, 1895 in Ballindine, Mayo, Ireland. He was living at 209 E? 53 St, NY, NY. He was a bartender, employed by George Siebolt?? Cannot read the address, looks like 321th St & 5 Ave. Sorry.
He was single, tall, slender, blue eyes and blond hair. Dated 1917.
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Registration card for WWII Draft:
John P. Kelly was born June 21, 1895 in County Galway, Ireland. His wife was Nora Kelly. They lived at 22 St. Charles Pl, Bklyn, Kings Co., N.Y. John owned a tavern at 282 "Flatback/Flatbuck" Ave, Bklyn. He was 5'8 1/2", 165 pounds, brown eyes, black hair, dark complexion.
Dated April 25, 1942.
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Well done Lisa, your powers of observation are wonderful ;D
I saw the John Kelly Chauffeur with Railway but wasn't sure as I was looking for a fireman (aren't we all - in fact I married one, it's the uniform you know ;D)
I just love reading these posts and find them fascinating.
Ellie you must be over the moon with all this information I know I would be.
Once you start looking for a family you get drawn in and want to find out more...what a thrilling hobby this is :D
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Yep Su, Lisa has been brilliant!!! I've told my family and they cant believe how much info I've gotten in such a short space of time!
Lisa, we always thought the tavern was situated at 22 Flatbush Avenue, Brooklyn. My dad visited this address when he was in New York in 2000 but low and behold, no pub!! :D
Have you had any luck finding your relations in Tuam? My dad found Wakefields in Ballinasloe, not far from Tuam.
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Just a short note, as I am on break at work...
I will have another look at the card to double-check the address (or, perhaps someone else can). It did look like a "k' at the end of the word, but perhaps the person misunderstood what John was saying. There is a Flatbush Avenue in New York.
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My Wakefield ancestor was supposedly born in Tuam. She passed away at 105 years old (in Canada) and the Toronto newspaper printed an article about her life. However, a couple of years ago I found a book that was published c1900 in America, listing Wakefields and where they ended up in North America. My ancestor's family was described in this book. Through additional research, I have discovered that other genealogists have stated my Wakefields were from Ballinasloe. I cannot confirm nor deny this statement. :-\ It will probably remain a mystery. :'(
Have to get back...I unfortunately will not be back on the site until tomorrow night.
I will catch up with pm's when I return. ;)
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Have u tried to contact any Wakefields that are still living in Ballinasloe? there are some listed there. might be worth a shot. its not a particularly common name so you could be lucky! i'll see if I can get anymore info on it for you.
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Im now trying to see if I can find any info on death/burial records for John and Nora. so far proving fruitless!!! Ive searched some cemeteries in Brooklyn but nothing :-[ anyone have any sites I can try??? Not too sure when exactly they died, but John passed away in the 1960's we think. any help would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you.
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There's a John Kelly on the Social Security Death Index who was born 22 Jun. 1894 & died in March 1967. His last residence was Brooklyn, NY in zip code 11205. His Social Security number was issued in New York before 1951.
It's not a definite match, as the date of birth is off by one each on the day & year from the WWII Draft Registration Card that Lisa found, but it wouldn't be the first time I saw someone with a fluctuating date of birth. In my experience, this seems to happen with some degree of regularity with Irish immigrants - I don't know if it may have been a cultural thing of the time or a record-keeping issue or what.
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thanks shelly! yep that could well be him!
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Hello again! Just renewing my search for more information about my granduncle John Kelly. Can anyone tell me where I can view the 1930 census record for him and his family? Thank you!
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The 1930 census is transcribed on www.familysearch.org. The images are available online at some subscription sites, like ancestry.com and fold3.com.
The 1940 Census has been released and can be seen here: http://1940census.archives.gov/ It isn't fully indexed yet.
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There was a petition for citizenship for Nora Kelly, 22 St Charles Place, Brooklyn. New York. Born Ballmane, Ireland on April 20th 1895. Declared my intention to become a citizen of the USA 22 September 1922. My husband is John, we were married on December 12 th 1920 at Ballmane. Ireland. John was born 21 st June 1895. My husband JOhn was naturalized July 19th 1928 in US District Court. New York. I entered New York December 13 th 1922 and lived permanently at 22 St Clarles Place, Brooklyn.
I have 4 children (all named - all birth dates given - the youngest child resided in Ballindine. Ireland) I immigrated from Liverpool on the Celtin arriving 11 December 1922.
Family on the 1930 Census - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X4LF-Z9H
Sandra
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Daughter Eleanor Catherine born September 7 th 1924. The death record below matches that birth date. Could be a possibility. ???
Eleanor Eckert
Born 7 th September 1924 and died 2 January 1997
Last Residence: 12866 Saratoga Springs, Saratoga, New York.
SSN issued: New York (Before 1951)
Sandra
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Eleanor Eckert - September 7 th 1924 - 2 January 1997
Burial: Saint Peters Cemetery Saratoga Springs Saratoga County New York.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0l6d/
Sandra
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The twins were born 24 October 1929 according to the informatuon on Nora's naturalization but can only see possibilities for 1928 on the SSDI. The 1930 Census was taken 1 st April 1930 so the age of the twins at 1 year or 1 year 3 months (crossed out) - might mean the birth date was a year earlier that 1929 ??? Social Security Number on one of the possible deaths was issued in New York so might be a good possibility.
Teresa F. McManus. Born 24 th October 1928 and died 2 March 1990
Last Residence: 08757 Toms River, Ocean, New Jersey.
SSN issued: New York (Before 1951)
The 2 possibilities for the other twin - will send by pm incase you wish to investigate those further.
Sandra
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Re-reading your original post confirms this is the death of the other twin.
Patricia A. Schneider
Born 24 th Octiber 1928 and died 29 August 2001
Last Residence: 11741 Holbrook, Suffolk, New York.
SSN issued: New York (Before 1951)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0l6e/
US Veterans Gravesites
Patricia Ann Schneider. Born 24 th Octiber 2001 and died 29 August 2001. Internment 3 rd September 2001 Calverton Nationa Cemetery. Cemetery Address: 210 Princeton Boulevard Rt 25 Calverton, NY 11933 Buried At: Section 30 Site 665
Service Info.: CPL US MARINE CORPS
Wife of Schneider, Robert J
Sandra
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Teresa Kelly - daughter of Mr & Mrs John Kelly - 746 E 37 th Street became the bride of Raymond Patrick Mc Manus. The couple were married at St Teresa's Church, the ceremony was perfgormed by the Uncle of the bridegroom the Rev John F McManus.
Twin sister Mrs Robert Schneider was matron of honour.
Further details in the Brooklyn Eagle. Sunday Seotember 2 nd 1951 on the site below - includes a photograph of Mrs R P McManus.
http://www.fultonhistory.com/fulton.html
Sandra
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There is an article on the marriage of the oldest daughter (of Mr and Mrs John Kelly) in the Long Island City Ny Star Journal 1947. The bride was a graduate of Cathedral High School. Manhattan. It also mentions a matron of honour Eleanor J Miller (so Eleanor Eckert had been married previously)
http://www.fultonhistory.com/fulton.html
Sandra
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*Sandra*, I can not thank you enough for all of the information you have found!!! I came to a dead end a few years ago, so I recently decided to renew my search. Never in a million years did I think someone would find all this info!! Thank you so much for all your help, from me and all the Kellys!!
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HI Ellie -k,
Glad to have helped. Hope you have found lots more on the Fulton site.
Sandra ;D
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Hi Ellie,
Is the John Kelly you’re looking for from Galway?
Son of Michael Kelly (Annagh Tuam) and Margaret Higgins (Castlegrove Tuam).
Brothers Richard (Dick) and Michael and sisters Julie, Mary Ellen, Annie, Aggie and Catherine.
First cousin Delia (NY City) died 2004.
K
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Yes!! This is my family ;D Michael (Johns brother) is my grandfather. Can I ask how you know this info? Very excited! :) please direct mail me if you would like.
Ellie
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You probably have as much information as I do Ellie, Johns other brother Dick was my grandfather. I remember Michael well and stayed with him often in Ballina.
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This would mean that my dad Peter is your cousin!
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Sorry, not your cousin! Im confused now haha
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Did Peter join the Garda Siochana?
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Yes, he retired in 2004. Is it Pauric or Jackie thats your dad?
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Jackie,
How does "direct mail" work, this is new to me.
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Just a wee update! I am flying to New York in ten days and as part of my visit I am hoping to visit John Kellys place of residence when he first moved to NYC. Excited! :D
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Hi ellie_k,
Sounds exciting, have a brilliant time :D
Sandra