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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Paul Street on Wednesday 07 October 09 11:01 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am looking for any info on the Thornhill family in/near Newcastle on Tyne, particularly George Bryan Douglas Thornhill, born Dec. 8, 1850 and his parents.
Cheers
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1851 Census
20 Eldon Square Newcastle
Bryan Thornhill, Hd, Mar, 25, Lieut Army, Hemingford Huntingdon
Sophia B, wife, mar, 22, Dawlish Devon
George B. D. , 4m, Newcastle
Sophia Luke, mother-in-law, 55, W, annuitant, Kent
+ 4 Servants
Note against Bryan, Sophia and George - Included in Regimental Return
HO107/2405/226 p 77
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hi paul and tracy could this thornhill family have anything to do with the thornhill area of sunderland it lies just outside the city centre to the south.it may well be conected these thornhills look like they had money.
neil
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Tracy, many thanks for the quick and informative reply.
Neil, this is as far back as I have got so far so keen to look into your question too.
Paul
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ho paul ive had a look about the net cant find anything to do with thornhill but i do know the area eas built so the ship owners/merchants and factory owners during the huge growth of industry could live in nice clean area if i find out anymore i will let you know.
neil
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There's bad news and good news... lots of it !
Bad news ??... This family Thornhill/Luke ( but really Tuke) had no connection with Newcastle other than the fact that soldier Bryan was stationed in Newcastle for a while and had son George there.
Bryan born Huntingdonshire, Wife Sophia born Dawlish, Devon, Mother-in-Law Sophia Tuke born Kent.
Then they all moved away from the north east.
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The National Trust site on surname profiles has Thornhill strong in north Midlands etc. My wee book " A Dictionary of English Place-Names" by A D Mills, has Thornhill derived from the Old English for "hill where thorn trees grow" and gives e.g.s for Thornhill in Yorkshire 1086, and Derbyshire 1200.
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The Good news...
The internet is absolutely brimming with info on the family...
*Bryan's family is tracked back on the IGI to 1600s
* Much info printed in Newspapers, including Times.
e.g. Edition of 9 Dec 1848 Ltnt Bryan Thornhill transferred from 2th Foot to 2nd Dragoon Guards
From "The Era" of 9 Dec 1849
" Marriage 4th dec at St John's Church Edinburgh, Bryan Thornhill, Esq, od Queen's Bays, son of George Thornhill Esq, MP of Diddington, Huntingdonshire, and Sophia Bradford, dtr of the late J Edgecumbe Tuke, Esq, of Dawlish, Devon.
- Son's birth reported in the Times of 11 Dec 1850
" Births.... On Sunday 8 inst at Eldon Square, Newcastle on Tyne, the lady of Bryan Thornhill Esq, Queens Dragoon Guards, of a son"
Dtr Charlotte'sd birth on 8 Feb 1852 in Norwich also reported.
FreeBMD has Bryan's death at 85 registered March Qtr 1911 at Maidenhead Reg District. Sophia at 82, reg June Qtr 1911 same Reg district.
C1861 Lancaster ref 3157-75-48
C1871 Lancaster 4231-66-11
C1881 1617-23-39
C1891 Dtrs... Maidenhead 1005-48-51
C1901 Maidenhead 1161-73-26 ( Bryan now Blind)
Bryan dies before 1911 census- Sophie doesn't !
Times 12 Mar 1853 - promoted to Captain - by purchase.
Then transferred to !st Duke of Lancashire Own Militia (16 April 1859)..oops
And lots more....
Michael
Newcastle
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Thank you all for that great info. Looks like I have a lot to look into.
Cheers
Paul
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what a result
neil
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I have posted Census details for Bryans Father on another posting on the Hunts board.
It all comes together :)
Remember to check that one too Paul, as you havent replyed to the info posted by myself and Bedfordshire Boy.
Cheers,
Trish
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Sections of early Thornhill family were in Yorkshire.
And one of the newspapers ( there were too many for me to note all ) reported on a grand wedding .. bridesmaids had sweet pea posies.. in Wolsingham, Co Durham,,, and every Thornhill and his dog were guests , including Bryan and wife. Guest list is almost a family tree !
But what happened to Geordie George, born Eldon Square ( now a big "Goth" meeting place) 1850 ?
Michael,
Newcastle
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Hi Michael,
Fascinating Family,
Yes, they originated from Fixby, Yorkshire and appeared in Diddington , Hunts in 1730.
There are Thornhill Papers in Hunts Archives. Last of the line died without issue 1956.
Also letters from Thornhills in NZ to ones in England are Archived. As I noticed Paul is from NZ perhaps that is the connection?
Cheers,
Trish
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Trish
I only joined RootsChat a week ago and wow, all the replies to my posts have been amazing.
The connection is that Bryan's son George (4mths old, Newcastle, 1851 census) is my Great-Great-Grandfather.
George was also in the army, 65th Regiment, serving in India from 1871 to 1873 and retiring in 1874.
He moved to New Zealand, marrying Jessie Amelia Matthews in Wellington, NZ in 1876.
By 1890 Jessie was remarried, the newspaper stating the bride as "Jessie Thornhill, relic of the late Captain Thornhill", though I believe he only got as far as Lieutenant!
Another newspaper article then has Jessie's daughter, Dora Evan Thornhill, marrying my Great-Grandfather, Harold Sydney Street, in 1907.
And this is the connection of me, Paul Street, to the Thornhills:
Paul Street, son of
Michael Harold Street, son of
Bryan Thornhill Kerr Street, son of
Dora Evan Thornhill, daughter of
George Bryan Douglas Thornhill
I looked at the google search on the letters from NZ to England but do not know of a connection.
Many thanks to all repliers, I'm still trying to piece the early stuff together.
Paul
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Paul,
I should have been more specific with my question about Newcastle-born George Thornhill ! . Where was he on censuses after 1851, i.e. 1861,1871, etc ?
Michael,
Newcastle
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as is often said theres a lot of realy good reserchers here on roots they can find a needle in a hayskack so you are in the best place for your reserch.
neil
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Michael,
In 1871 he was in India, then he moved to NZ, so I guess he is only missing for 1861.
Paul
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Hi Paul,
Thank you for the family line explaination. I confess I like to build up a picture of a family i am helping research :-[
I am from NZ originally .
I havent found George in 1861 Census, possibly he is away at School.
1861 Census
RG9/3157/75/48
Tower Brivram?
Lancaster, Lancashire
Bryan THORNHILL,35,head, mar, Capt to Adj 171st Lan.Militia, born Hunts, Hemingford
Sophia..., 32, wife, mar, born Devon, Dawlish
Charlotte.A...,9, daug, scholar, born Norfolk, Norwich
Ellen.E..., 3, daug, born Cambridgeshire, Swaffam
Rose..., 1, daug, born Lancashire, Lancaster
+ 4 servants
Best of luck with your research.
Trish :)
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Trish
I only joined RootsChat a week ago and wow, all the replies to my posts have been amazing.
The connection is that Bryan's son George (4mths old, Newcastle, 1851 census) is my Great-Great-Grandfather.
George was also in the army, 65th Regiment, serving in India from 1871 to 1873 and retiring in 1874.
He moved to New Zealand, marrying Jessie Amelia Matthews in Wellington, NZ in 1876.
By 1890 Jessie was remarried, the newspaper stating the bride as "Jessie Thornhill, relic of the late Captain Thornhill", though I believe he only got as far as Lieutenant!
Another newspaper article then has Jessie's daughter, Dora Evan Thornhill, marrying my Great-Grandfather, Harold Sydney Street, in 1907.
And this is the connection of me, Paul Street, to the Thornhills:
Paul Street, son of
Michael Harold Street, son of
Bryan Thornhill Kerr Street, son of
Dora Evan Thornhill, daughter of
George Bryan Douglas Thornhill
I looked at the google search on the letters from NZ to England but do not know of a connection.
Many thanks to all repliers, I'm still trying to piece the early stuff together.
Paul
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I have an interest in the descendants George B D Thornhill and Jessie Amelia Matthews. Jessie’s sister, Emma Matthews was my Great Grandmother.
From my research I know that George & Jessie had 5 children all born in New Zealand. 3 of these children died very young. The other 2 children survived to adulthood, that is, Alice Margaret May Thornhill born 5 July 1880 and Helen Muriel Thornhill born 1883. Both these daughters were living in England in 1891 and returned to New Zealand in 1894. George B D Thornhill himself went to Australia and died there in 1893. The other child you referred to is Dora Evans Thornhill, noted as being your Great Grandmother. I can find no evidence that she was the daughter of George B D Thornhill. Dora was born 29 July 1887 at Napier New Zealand under the registered surname of Evans. I hold a copy of the birth registration. Her mother’s name is given as Jessie Evans aged 31 born in Monmouth Wales. This is almost certainly Jessie Amelia Matthews although for reasons unknown at the birth registration of Dora she gave her name as Jessie Evans. Evans was the maiden name of Jessie’s mother. The father’s name is not recorded on Dora’s birth registration.
The reason for the withholding of the father’s name is not known. In most cases, but not all, it could be that Dora was illegitimate. If George B D Thornhill was the father of Dora it is very strange why he was omitted from the birth registration and stranger still why Dora was registered under the surname of Evans. From school days at least Dora used the name Dora Evans Thornhill although this was not her given birth name.
As you already know, Jessie re-married in 1890 to Robert Kerr Somerville. This marriage seems to have been bigamy as her 1st husband was still alive and there in no record of a New Zealand divorce for them. If Robert Kerr Somerville was the father of Dora, in 1894 it became possible for Dora’s birth to be re-registered and Dora to be deemed a legitimate child of Jessie and her 2nd husband Robert K Somerville. This did not happen. Robert Somerville’s 1913 obituary states that he had 3 step daughters.
One can now only guess but to me it seems very likely that neither George Thornhill nor Robert Somerville were the biological father of Dora. If an older issued birth certificate, pre 1955 or 1969, for Dora is held by any family member, this may show the father’s name. Nowadays, New Zealand certificates are not issued showing the word “illegitimate” even through this word and the father’s name may have originally been recorded in 1887.
Family descendants can contact me by a personal message if they want to.
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Graham
Thanks for that (I think).
A little disappointing to see the connection to the Thornhills broken, but good to get things sorted. I was having difficulty tracking a birth for Dora Thornhill and relied (incorrectly) on her and her mother's wedding notices in the newspaper.
Cheers
Paul
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I believe you are seeking George Bryan Douglas Thornhill - I have found a man by that name Admitted to Dunwich Benevolent Asylum on Stradbroke Island in 14th August 1889. He was discharged from the Asylum in 14th Nov 1889 and Died 18th July 1893 -
From Queensland BDMs - Death Certificate
George Bryan Douglas Thornhill
Event date: 18/07/1893
Event type: Death registration
Registration details: 1893/B/26171Products available:
Mother: Sophia Luke
Father/parent: Bryan Thornhill
Will be doing up a Find-a-grave on him also so you can go into that site and post images or a tribute.
Cheers - John Winterbotham.
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Not sure if this has been found on Archway?
From: G B D Thornhill, Wellington Date: 1 April 1887 Subject: Resigning his appointment and asking he may be allowed 3 months leave of absence in full pay
From: G B D Thornhill Date (Received): 11 March 1887 Subject: For one week's leave on urgent private affairs [File cover only]
From: G B D Thornhill, Brisbane, [Australia] Date: 29 June 1888 Subject: Enquiring as to the whereabouts of his wife Jessie Amelia Thornhill******
Trish :)