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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: shan42 on Tuesday 06 October 09 00:43 BST (UK)
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Well I'm stumped on this one... I'm looking for Bentons -
Fred'k (b c1870) who m Beatrice Timms (c1870) in the 3/4 of 1901, can't find them on any censuses, they had a son Frederick b 1904 (m Lillian Mitchell).
They are somehow related to a family in Northamptonshire who were horse dealers around 1861 - 1891 but there are a few of them too (Wm b 1850 Peterboro', Thomas b 1824 Earith - no son Wm, Bertie b 1873 Peterboro') but I can't find parents, records or links. If anyone has any of these in their tree, pleeeease let me know!
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Hi shan42
1901 Marriage:
Registered in Aston, Warwickshire, Dec Qtr
1904 Birth:
Is this son Frederick, registered Sep Qtr 1904 - 6d, 404?
What does it state for his father's occupation?
Possible for Frederick Snr:
1901: Lodging House, 23-24-25 Great Brook St - Duddeston, Aston. Warwickshire
RG13; Piece: 2868; Folio: 82; Page: 5
Lodger: Fred BENTON 32, Brass Filer, b Birmingham, Warks.
I see a Beatrice TIMMS in Aston in 1901, but she is b abt 1876 and married with a son.
Cheers
AMBLY
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possible
transcribed as fardence benton
but is more like frederic
1871
RG10/3123/140/22
joseph benton age 30. b. birmingham. occ. brass founder. head
susan age 28. b. london. wife
eliza age 8. b. birmingham. daughter
caroline age 7. b. ditto. daughter
thomas age 4. b. ditto. son
joseph age 2. b. ditto. son
frederic william age 1. b. ditto. son
living at;st.stephens,birmingham
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1881
RG11/2994/74/4
joseph benton age 40. b. birmingham. occ. brassfounder. head
susan age 39. b. ditto. wife
eliza age 19. b. ditto. occ. button worker. daughter
caroline age 17. b. ditto. occ. button worker. daughter
thomas age 15. b. ditto. occ. brassfounder. son
frederick.w. age 11. b. ditto. son
alfred.j. age 7. b. ditto. son
albert.a. age 7. b. ditto. son
howard age 5. b. ditto. son.
charles.h. age 3. b. ditto. son
florence.r. age 1. b. ditto. daughter
living at; beach street court 11 no.1,birmingham.
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1891
frederick william benton apparantly using second name
RG12/2388/90/21
susan benton age 49. b. enfield,london. head(wid)
thomas age 25. b. birmingham. occ. bicycle maker.son
william age 21. b. ditto. occ. bicycle maker. son
alfred age 19. b. ditto. occ. brassfounder. son
howard age 16. b. ditto. occ. saddler. son
henry age 13. b. ditto. son.
florence age 11. b. ditto. daughter.
jamie nash age 48. b. aston. occ. gun maker. boarder.
ne---- nash age 10. b. birmingham. boarder(female)
living at;st.stephens,birmingham
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joseph was the son of thomas /eliza benton
1851
HO107/2058/757/29.
thomas benton age 38. b. birmingham. occ. brassfounder. head
eliza age 37. b. ditto. occ. pearl button polisher. wife
joseph age 10. b. ditto. occ. brassfounder. son
mary age 8. b. ditto. daughter.
sarah age 5. b. ditto. daughter
john age 5mnths. b. ditto. son
mary addison age 74. b. ditto. lodger(wid)
living at;57,harding street,st.stephens,birmingham
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possible birth/christening of josephs father thomas
thomas benton
birthdate 14th jan 1815
chr date 19th may 1815
place; st.philips,birmingham,warwickshire
parents; thomas/elizabeth benton
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Firstly, thanks Ambly - yes that's the marriage. Fred 1870 was a brass polisher journeyman.
Thank you Wozzle! I'll check all that info out and see if I can find a link to the Northampton elusives! ;)
(Fardence, lol!!)
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with regard to beatrice timms there is another one in aston in 1901 she is born 1884 though
not impossible that she is yours
unless you know for definate that she was born abt 1870
think you definately need the marriage cert to be sure about fredk and it will give you more of a chance to follow beatrice back
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and according to the 1881 census the benton horse dealers all seem to come from earith huntingdonshire/cambs
what proof do you have they are actually related to your bentons from warwickshire
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I don't know when Beatrice was born, it's just an estimate..
The Northampton side are related somehow cos my nan talked about them - I just don't know how!
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think this is the thomas born earith
on the census he is in bluntisham/huntingdonshire
birth
thomas benton
date; 12th march 1823
place; baptist church,bluntisham,huntingdon
parents; thomas/elizabeth
other children of this couple
sarah 1816
william 1818
mary 1821
john 1825
mary 1827(maybe the first mary died?)
jabez 1830
charles 1831
taken from ext.rec. I.G.I. all are baptists
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thomas the father was born in huntingdonshire abt 1786 according to the 1841 census
his wife elizabeth was also born there in 1791 again according to the 1841 census
so we know this family of horsetraders were still in huntingdon in 1786.
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Hi All.
Shan42 this could be your man.
Wm b 1850 Peterboro',
1891 Census Peterborough Rg12/1227 Pg 8, Folio 14, Sch 42
29 New Road.
William Benton, Head, M, 40, Horse Dealer, Earith, Hunts
A, Wife, M, 38, Peterboro'
William, Son, S, 17, Assistant, Peterboro'
F, Daur, S, 14, Peterboro'
F, Nephew, 4, S, March, Cambs
L Goodyear, Serv, S, 28, Domestic Servant, Wisbech, Cambs
E Hillson, Serv, S, 22, Domestic Servant, Eye, Northants
The 1881 census as you more than likely know can be searched free
on Familysearch.
Sandy
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Just so we can work downwards.
1881 Census Peterborough, Rg11/1592, Pg 12, Folio 76, Sch 45, New Road
William Benton, Head, Married, 31, Horse Dealer, Earith, Hunts
Annie, Wife, Married, 28, Stanground, Hunts
Walter, Son, 7, Peterborough
Florrie, Daur, 4, Peterborough
Pattie BENTON, Single, Visitor, 22, Publican's Daughter Somersham, Hunts
Lizzie Goodyear, Governess, Single, 19, Farmers Daughter, Teacher, Wisbech, Cambs
Jane Hill, Servant, Single, 13, General Servant, Orton Waterville, Hunts
Sandy
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1871 Census RG10/1516 Peterborough St Marys
Pg 10, Folio 143, Sch 53, New Road
William Benton, Head, Marr, 21, Horse Dealer, Erith, Hunts
Ann, Wife, Marr, 18, Stanground, Hunts
Thos, Brother, 13, Erith, Hunts
Sandy
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More than likely parents of William.
1861 Bluntisham cum Earith Rg 9/977, Pg 16, Folio 83, Sch 95, Main St.
Thomas Benton, Head, Mar, 37, Hore Dealer, Earith, Hunts
Sally, Wife, Mar, 38, Warboys, Cambs
Thomas Benton Jun, 3, Scholar, Earith, Hunts
George , 2, Earith, Hunts
Elizabeth Benton, Mother, Wid, 72, Ag Lab Wid, Somersham, Hunts
Maria Bennett, Serv, 28, Un, Cook, Woodhurst, Hunts
Sandy
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seahall
there is possibly another family called bentham who had a son william born bluntisham cum earith
william bentham
birth; 12th oct 1812
place baptist-bluntisham cum earith
parents; thomas/elizabeth
then there is this one which i have posted already
william benton
birth; 4th july 1818
place baptist-bluntisham
parents; thomas/elizabeth
do you think the parents could be the same and the surname has changed between 1812-1818 ?
only i cannot see a bentham in huntingdonshire in 1841
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No idea I am afraid. :(
sandy
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Hi Shan42
As Wozzle said, the marriage certificate will - hopefully - confirm the name of Frederick's father, and Beatrice's and her age etc. While it seems the 'right' family is found (wonderfully, by Sandy & wozzle) for Fred, there'd be nothing worse than finding out much later that you're following the wrong line!) :-\
Do you have any details of other children Fred & Beatrice had?
Do you know if they stay in the Aston area
Do you have any idea when & where they died?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi again Shan42/Ambly.
Still trying to see the conection. There is this one.
Bertie b 1873 Peterboro'
On the 1901 Census he says he is born Peterborough on all
other censuses he is with his parent/s Thomas and Maria.
His baptism is 27 Oct 1872 at Earith.
Sandy
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Hello.
I know that this is a long shot, but I need to ask. When I was a child aged about 5, (50 years ago), I remember a couple who came to visit my mum called Mr and Mrs Benton, possibly Edna or Enid Benton. We always knew tem as Mr and Mrs Benton. They camea from England. They always stayed at a hotel in Dalkeith. I would say thaat they were in their sixties then in the late 1950's early 1960's We always got new dresses an white socks to wear when we visited them or my grandparents picked them up an they came to our house in Gilmerton, Edinburgh. My mums name was Wendy Welsh/Macdonald. They visited once a year, but I am not sure of the connection and it has been bugging me for a long time now. They always gave us a gift of money. Would this couple be part of your family?
regards,
Lynda
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Hi Shan42
The occupation you have for Fred: "brass polisher journeyman" I assume comes from the birth of son Fred jnr.
Can I ask - where do you get c1870 birth year for Fred?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Lynda/Ambly.
Ambly can you help me out with this as I think we have a link
to the brothers William and Bertie.
Thomas son of Thomas and Elizabeth born abt. 1823 noted by woozle.
Thomas Benton married Sarah Thompson St Ives Reg Dec 1845 (freebmd).
On the 1851 Thomas 26, and Sarah 27, are in Earith with William 1.
On the 1861 Thomas 37, Sally 38, are in Earith with Thomas Jun 3, George 2, mother Elizabeth 72.
On the 1871 Thomas 48, Maria 40, are in Earith with George 12, Harry 5, Agnes F 2.
On the 1881 Thomas 57, Maria 50, are in Earith with George 22, Bertie 8, Ethel 6.
On the 1891 Maria Wid 60, is in Earith with Harry 25, Agnes 22, Bertie 18, Georgina gd daur 6.
On the 1901 Bertie 28, is in Peterborough with Grace M 23, Agnes M M 2, Lavinia J 8 mo
I can see no death for a Sally or Sarah. Maria and Sarah both came from Warboys.
I can not see a marriage for Thomas and Maria (who may still be Sarah really).
Therefore is this just a red herring or is it 2 wives.
Sandy
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Hi all
Hi Sandy, I'll have a look and see if I can get my head round it ;D..........
But, I'm anxious to see Shan42's replys to my questions.....here's why
In 1911 Census - using and manipulating their full free advanced search facilities - I look for Beatrice BENTON's born abt 1884.
http://www.1911census.co.uk/
I find what appears to be a family group living in Kings Norton, Worcestershire
Head: Frederick BENTON 30 (b abt 1881), married 1902
Wife: Beatrice BENTON 27 (b abt 1884)
Dau: Beatrice BENTON 8 (b abt 1903)
Son: Frederick BENTON 6 (b abt 1905)
As you can see, this Fred is a decade younger than the one we've been looking at.
Their son is the right age. And a daughter born earlier that the son makes sense if 'our' couple married end of 1901 since we might expect at least 1 child born before son Fred in 1904
The marriage year on the 1911 Index is a calculation based on the householder's reply, which asked that they advise how long they'd been married ( reply was to be nr of years, nr of months or under 1 month). In 'our' Fred & Beatrice's case, by Census 1911 they had been married just shy of 10 years - technically 9 years would be the correct reply, which would translate to 'married 1902' on the index.
And in any case, on FreeBMD there is only one BENTON marrying a Beatrice 1902 +/-2 in all of England & Wales.
And that, is Frederick BENTON and Beatrice TIMMS in 1901.
Cheers
AMBLY-with-a-spanner :-\
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HI Ambly.
No spanner in the works, you are quite right to tread cafefully
seeing there are no marriage details confirming father's yet. :)
The 1911 looks good. :)
I have no idea at the moment on the connection to Northants
as the censuses give in-accurate details as we know so well. :)
It maybe solved next time I look.
Sandy
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Wow, I'm overwhelmed at this response - thankyou so much everyone!
I hadn't looked for a few hours as I didn't think I'd get much response...
I'll have to write it all down and add to the bits I have and try and work it all out.
Right - Ambly, the 1870 birth date is a pure guess going on the births of children - well, only Fred in 1904, who I have no siblings for or clue about. I may be able to find out more from my family tomorrow if I hassle them enough (they're not very forthcoming), though I have asked already...
The Northants ones sound a bit better off than the rest, and I WILL find the connection one day! I will order a birth certificate probably tomorrow, can't really afford it this week after the last 2 purchases but I need to know!!
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Right then, after extensive head-scratching & note taking... ;D
Who do you think are Harry & Agnes that appear on the 1871 & 91 census but not on the 1881?
Sorry Lindyloo, I've no idea :-\
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Oh dear, so the 1870's birth years are guesses for both Fred and Beatrice?
No offence, but :'( but Guesses (sometimes we must but not recommended and should always be announced as such), have to be well calculated and used with extreme caution - for example they married in late 1901. So by 1904 when Fred jnr was born, I would expect they had at least one earlier child born (regardless if the child lived or died). Also, for the times - if it was a first marriage for the pair of them, I'd guess (if I had to) that Beatrice if not Fred would be nearer 20 to 25 than 30 at the time of Marriage. At an age of 30, I'd wonder if she was previously married and that she may not even be nee TIMMS. Based on so little concrete or near-reliable info, I would have wondered if she was born between 1878 and 1885. All in all '1870' is a very unsafe guess for her - especially now with what looks very like them in Kings Norton in 1911.
Kings Norton, by the way, covered parishes in both Staffs and Worcs., so in 1911 they may be living in a part of what is commonly seen as Staffs but which was officially part of Worcs.
It looks very like the BENTON's were a large clan - and all that has been found to date may well be relatives who with a bit of figuring, may lead back to the Northants people you've heard family stories about. But there is no way of knowing for sure yet.
I know how it is to have to watch the pennies to afford all these costly documents - but if you want to get the best bang-for-buck then their Marriage certificate is what you need, before anything else. This may go some way unlocking the whole shebang for you. Like I said, how awful it would be for you to find after years and pounds of research, you'd followed the wrong line.
The marriage certificate will give ages, occupations, address and hopefully father's names and maybe the witness names will also be useful.
I would also recommend paying for & downloading that 1911 Census image if you can - it will have extra details on it which may confirm it's your people, and their places of birth etc - therefore leading us to the correct Frederick BENTON (and Beatrice TIMMS) on the earlier census.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Sorry Ambly, I didn't mean to confuse everyone - I started looking for horse dealers in Northants rather than people with dates, and got a bit of the info you all found, so it all slots together in some order - once I have the B'ham marriage cert (ordering tomorrow), I can get onto that side.
There are alot of Bentons in Northants & surrounding, but half seem to be horse dealers and most of the rest are shoe makers, so the horse ones I can narrow down & order some of them at least.
All the searching hasn't been a waste, as it's been a big help to me so far - and for the Beatrice & Fred, I searched high & low but could find very little, so at least there's not hundreds of them to choose from :)
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Hi Shan42. :)
Who do you think are Harry & Agnes that appear on the 1871 & 91 census but not on the 1881?
Agnes F daughter of Thomas and Maria is on the 1881 here.
1881 Census Rg11/1606, Somersham, Pg 32, Folio 35, Sch 168, Parkhall Rd.
Agnes F Benton, Scholar, 12, Scholar, Earith, Hunts
Sandy
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Hi again.
Harry son of Thomas and Maria is here.
1881 Census Rg11/1603, Huntingdon St Mary, Pg 4, Folio 108, Sch 19, High St.
Harry Benton, Boarder, 15, Scholar, Earith, Hunts
Sandy
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Also to add the 1841 Census for Thomas son of
Thomas and Elizabeth who married Sarah.
H.O.107/448/2, Earith, Hunts, Pg 38, Folio 22
Thos Benton, 55, Ag Lab, Y
Elizt, 50, Y
Martha, 13, Y
Jabez, 11, Y
Charles, 10, Y
Sandy
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And the 1851 entry.
H.O.107/1749, Earith, Hunts, Pg 20, Folio 272, Sch 83, School End.
Elizabeth Benton, Head, Wid, 60, Dependent on Family, Somersham, Hunts
Martha, Daur, U, 23, Drefsmaker, Earith, Hunts
Jabez, Son, 20, Horse Clipper, Earith, Hunts
Sandy
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We await the arrival of the marriage cert with bated breath ;D ;D
Meantime, It seems likely, Frederick and Beatrice had a child born 1912:
FreeBMD
Arthur BENTON - Jun Qtr 1912 - Kings Norton, mother's maiden name: TIMMS
This lends further weight to that 1911 Census which would put Frederick born about 1881.
I just rechecked the 1911 Census Index, to try establish the pob stated (one has to enter in the term precisely as used in the index or else it comes up no match).
I get a match with this information
Frederick BENTON
Born 1881 Aston
Head of House
Married 1902
Residing Kings Norton parish, Worcestershire
So I feel fairly confident this is your Frederick's line:
1901: 3 Court, 11 Tower Road - Aston Manor, Warwickshire
RG13 / Piece: 2885 / Folio: 113 / Page: 27
Head: George BENTON 61, Spade Tool Finisher, b Erdington, Warks
Wife: Emily BENTON 50, b Birmingham, Warks
Son: Frederick BENTON 20, Cycle Polisher, b Aston Warks
1891: 121, Tower Road, Aston Manor, Warwickshire
RG12/ Piece: 2434 / Folio 79/ Page 23
Head: George BENTON 50, Fork Finisher, b Erdington Warks
Wife: Emily BENTON 41, b Birmingham Warks
Dau: Ada BENTON 17, Cartridge maker, b Birmingham Warks
Son: Edgar BENTON 16, unm, Bicycle Maker, b Aston Warks
Dau: Lilly BENTON 12, Scholar, b Aston Warks
Son: Frederick BENTON 10, Scholar, b Aston Warks
1881: 11 Court, 17 Tower Road, Aston Manor, Warwickshire
RG11/ Piece: 3044/ Folio: 41/ Page: 27
Head: George BENTON 41, Spade maker, b Erdington, Warwickshire
Wife: Emily BENTON 31, b Saltley, Warwickshire
Son: Walter BENTON 12, Scholar, b Aston
Dau: Ada BENTON 7, Scholar, b Aston
Son: Edgar BENTON 5, b Aston
Dau: Lilly BENTON 2, b Aston
1871: Apna (Assna?) Road (after Lichfield Road), Aston Manor, Erdington, Warwickshire
RG10/ Piece: 3158/ Folio: 61/ Page: 12
Head: George BENTON 31, Spade Finisher, b Erdington, Warks
Wife: Emily BENTON 21, b Birmingham, Warwickshire
Son: Walter BENTON 2, b Aston Warks
1861: Nr 2 Brickler Lane - Hamlet of Erdington, Aston, Warwickshire
RG9/ Piece: 2185/ Folio: 85/ Page: 15
Head: Samuel GOODBY Jnr, 24, Silver smith, b Birm, Warks
Wife: Hannah Marie GOODBY 23, b Dover Kent
Son: Samuel George GOODBY 2, b Birmingham Warks
Son: Ernest John GOODBY 1, b Peckham, London
Visitor: George BENTON 21, unm, Brickmaker, b Erdington Warks
1851: Gravelly Lane, Hamlet of Erdington, Parish of Aston, Warwickshire
HO107/ Piece: 2062/ Folio: 254/ Page: 29
Head: William BENTON 44, Tailor, b Lichfield Staffs
Wife: Sarah BENTON 38, Laundress, b Erdington (and all the children born there too)
Son: Joseph BENTON 19, unm, Striker (Spade) ,
Son: Frederick BENTON 17, unm, Brickmaker,
Dau: Ellen BENTON 15, unm, Laundress,
Son: George BENTON 11, Scholar,
Son: Henry BENTON 9, Scholar,
Dau: Emma BENTON 7, Scholar,
Son: James BENTON 5, Scholar,
Son: Robert BENTON 3,
1841: Green Lanes, Sutton Coldfield, Warwickshire
William BENTON 30, Tailor - Not born Warwickshire
Sarah BENTON 25 - b Warwickshire (and all the children too)
Joseph BENTON 9
Frederick BENTON 7
Ellen BENTON 5
Louisa BENTON 4
George BENTON 2
Henry BENTON 2 months
(Sutton Coldfield comes under the Aston registration District)
The William BENTON's of Gravelly Lane had a child die in 1856.
Someone here on Rootschat - a BENTON - had ordered the wrong cert and posted the details of it:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,245462.0.html
He speaks of his BENTON line here (though his William BENTON was born in Scotland)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,176488.0.html
Cheers
AMBLY
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Now to follow William forward from 1851....
1861: Gravelly Lane, Hamlet of Erdington, Parish of Aston, Warwickshire
RG9 / Piece: 2186 / Folio: 23/ Page: 40
Head: William BENTON 54, Tailor Journeyman, b Lichfield Staffs
Wife: Sarah BENTON 49, Laundress, b Erdington (and all the children too)
Son: Henry BENTON 20, unm, Striker at Spade Works
Dau: Emma BENTON 18, unm, Servant out of Situation,
Son: James BENTON 16, unm, Tiler at Spade Works
Son: Robert BENTON 14, unm, Tiler at Spade Works
Son: Edwin BENTON 9, Scholar,
Dau: Clara BENTON 6, Scholar,
1871: 7 Parliment St, Hamlet of Aston Manor, Warwickshire
Head: Sarah BENTON 59, married, b (not recorded)
Son: Henry BENTON 29, unm, Fork Maker, b Birmingham
Dau: Emma BENTON 29, unm, b Erdington
Son: Robert BENTON 27, unm, Fork Pollisher, b Erdington
Son: Edwin BENTON 19, unm, Striker, b Erdington
(daughter Clare may have died in 1865 - entry on FreeBMD)
Husband is here (perhaps away on 'business')
1871: 28 Long Street - Walsall, Walsall Foreign, Staffordshire
RG10 / Piece: 2961 / Folio: 80 / Page: 31
Boarder: William BENTON 64, Tailor, b Lichfield
One of 2 boarders in household of Julia BLOOMER a widow age 38, b Lyme Staffs, and her london born children.
DEATH: Jun Qtr 1880 Aston - William BENTON age 73 (b abt 1807)
1881: 35 Pugh Road, Aston Manor, Warwickshire
RG11 / Piece: 3046 / Folio: 48 / Page: 27
Head: Sarah BENTON 69, widow, b Erdington
Son: Henry BENTON 39, unm, Hatchet Filler* (tool), b Sutton Coldfield Warks
Dau: Emma BENTON 37, unm, b Erdington
Son: Edwin BENTON 29, unm, Striker Smith, b Erdington
(*probably meant to be "Filer")
1891: 1 Beale Place, Victoria Road - Aston Manor, Warwickshire
RG12 / Piece: 2436 / Folio 15 / Page 24
Head: Sarah BENTON 79, widow, b Erdington
Dau: Emma BENTON 47? (or 49?), Housekeeper, b Erdington
Lodger: Lisa (or Lexe) JARBRIGE 23, single, Cartridge Maker, b B'ham, Warks
Lodger: Jane LIDDLE 33, single, Cartridge Maker, b B'ham, Warks
Just to summarise, that if this line is correct:
Frederick's parents are George & Emily and his paternal grandparents are Wiliam & Sarah.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Finally, on the IGI is a William BENTON chr 1807 St Chad, Lichfield, son of Benjamin BENTON & Mary.
Three trees on An**ces**try have this group on it. None have any details on William, other than his baptism. No sources are quoted.
They do say his father is:
Benjamin BENTON
b abt 1767 Hednesford, Staffs
married 9 June 1794 Staffs to : Mary BONSOR? b abt 1770 Staffs
And a whole bunch of Ben & Mary's children (some of them I'm not so sure of - they're leicestershire born ). It also takes William/Bens BENTON line back - right or wrong - to a John BENTON born 1635 in Staffs!
And there is this:
1841: Gay Lane - Parish of St Chad, City of Lichfield, Staffordshire
HO107 / Piece 1008 / Book: 1; Folio:- / Page: 5
Benjamin BENTON 74, Tailor - Y
DEATH: Jun Qtr 1843 Lichfield
Benjamin BENTON
Cheers
AMBLY
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Cor you two have been busy - I'm so grateful, thank you!! :-*
I'll note all that down in my ever-expanding pile of paperwork and add them all to the 'probably' tree.. Leicestershire is getting nearer to Northampton, could be something somewhere.. I'm going to do some family interrogation now, then order the cert.
Thanks again :)
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OK, update!!
Frederick 1904 had a younger brother Arthur, and a sister (name/d.o.b. unknown) who died suddenly aged 21.... pieces of some of the puzzle!! :D
That's all the info I have so far - not too well today so I'll try and phone somebody else tomorrow :-\
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Sorry to see you have not been feeling well today Shan42.
Don't take on too much, your rellies will wait till you are better. :)
Sandy
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Thanks Seahall :)
Seahall where did you find all that census info? Cos I've looked on 3 different sites' records and none of them come up ???
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Hi Shan42.
You some times have to put less info in than more.
If you use the Census info it should get you to the folk.
Ambly certainly seems to have the correct Frederick lineage.
Sandy
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Right then...2 certificates arrived today (on my birthday, woohoo!!) We have:
Marriage cert for Fred'k Benton, aged 21 and Beatrice Timms, aged 19. Married 1901 on xmas day, awww!!
Fred's dad was George and Beatrice's dad was Fred'k (deceased). They lived at the same address so maybe they were cohabiting before marriage - oooh the little tinkers, lol!!
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Hi shan42
looks like all your birthdays and christmas' come at once ;D ;D
Happy Birthday to you!
So, then it looks like Fred indeed hails from the Staffodshire BENTON line.
On the marriage, his father's occupation is something akin to Spade Maker?
Do either of the witness' tie in with anyone mentioned so far (on the census?)
Regarding "living together before marriage' - they may have lived at the same house or may have been intending to both live in the address given after their marriage - but it is also often so that marrying couples give the same address even though one of them didn't actually live there, to get round the church rules about banns, ie: to simplify the process
http://www.cofe.anglican.org/lifeevents/weddings/weddingbanns.html
What was the address.BTW - does it tie onto the BENTONS we found?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Ambly - Thank you!!! ;D :-*
His profession is brass polisher, and on the census he is a bicycle polisher.. George is an Edge Tool Maker :D
The address is Bk 204 Aston Road (Aston, Warks). The marriage was at St Mary's Church.
I didn't even look at the witnesses!! They were Alfred Timms and Annie Mattey.
I can only find one Timms family in 1851 (H - Jonathan & W Elizabeth, with Lucy Eliz, Mary Ann & Emily), and Beatrice Timms in 1901 living with the Mattey family at 55 Bagot St, parish of St Mary:
Henry J aged 38, wife Fanny aged 37, various kids including an Annie aged 15... census has Beatrice's age as 17 here, and as 'sister' - I assume that means head of house's sister, so I don't get that bit, but it has to be her I think.
And so far also in 1991 a family living in Hope St, B'ham - Father Fred'k b Glos, and Alfred and Beatrice who again is aged 7 but that's out by 2 years according to her marriage cert.
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I have a great grandmother named Eliza Benton born 1874 swavesey sister kate and mother mary can you help me with this family
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there is only 1 birth in cambridgeshire between 1871-1875
that is a eliza roboina benton birth 1873 st.ives(which is the reg dist for swaveley)
she is on the 1881 census RG11/1607/53/9 in cambridgeshire with her mother mary and sister kate
the only one who matches is in durham working as a servant in 1891 RG12/4064/56/16
this one marries in hartlepool in 1895 to a henry smith
she is on the 1901 census in hartlepool with her husband and 2 children martha aged 5 and henry aged 2 RG13/4638/168/32
if you do not have access to these census entries i will post them here
mick
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thank you for the reply yes eliza married henry in durham she also had a daughter mary ann smith who married a mr small they went to live in york.
There was another daughter but we are unsure of her name she was called lizzey on the 1911 census but we have the name lilian and Elizabeth ?
In 1912 she had my grandmother Robina so you have answered Elizas middle name as we were unsure.
Eliza also had a daughter named Jane.
We cant find Elizas death the husband henry died 1941.
I was told there was a daughter called jenny but i cant find her the family were in durham in 1911.
I think eliza died before Henry as there was no mention of her at all in the family no one knew her name and she was never talked about.
Robina smith 1912 born went into a nunery and nearly completed the course then for some reason came out and in 1940 she married an Edward Sale in Leeds.
The only census I have is 1911 which i got of find my past with bought credits.
This family moved about quite abit we cant find much information on henry smith elizas husband on the 1911 census it says he was from yarmouth but i cant find much on him.
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according to the 1901 he was born in yarmouth in c 1873 his occ. in 1901 is bricklayer
here is the 1901 census
1901
RG13/4638/168/32
henry smith age 28. b. yarmouth. occ. bricklayer. head
eliza age 29. b. cambridge. wife
martha age 5. b. hartlepool. daughter
henry age 2. b. ditto. son
living at;sat.pauls,west hartlepool,durham
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this seems to be the only henry that matches and he is living in durham in 1891
1891
RG12/4124/13/19
mary ann smith age 51. b. great yarmouth. head(wid)
george.c.smith age 27. b. ditto. occ. cooper. son
thomas smith age 23. b. ditto. occ. wire rope labourer. son
william.c.smith age 21. b. ditto. occ. labourer. son
henry.j.smith age 19. b. ditto. occ. wire rope apprentice. son
james butter age 34. b. ditto. occ. chemical labourer.(other relative). (marr)
living at;barmston,durham
reg.dist;chester le street
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will continue on tomorrow
mick
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henry j smith we do not think he is our henry, we have found another henry in 1871 mother mary ann dad william. henry born 1870 yarmouth sister maria 1858 brother james 1866 then there is a georg hannah smith 1860.
henry had a middle name of william on his childrens birth certificate and childrens marriage certificates.
willian smith the dad we think was born 1833/5 gorleston.
mary ann the mum was born 1837 gorleston suffolk.
thanks for reply.
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1871
RG10/1788/106/34
william smith age 36. b. gorleston. occ. labourer. head
mary ann age 34. b. ditto. wife
maria smith age 13. b. yarmouth. daughter
georganna age 11. b. ditto. daughter
james age 5. b. ditto. son
henry age 1. b. ditto. son
living at;great yarmouth,norfolk
the best thing to do would be to get henrys marriage cert
this would give you his fathers name and occ
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1861
RG9/1189/92/9
william smith age 28. b. gorleston. occ. labourer. head
mary ann age 24. b. ditto. wife
maria age 3. b. ditto. daughter
georganna age 3mnths. b. ditto. daughter
eliza tyrell age 9. b. ditto. visitor
living at;high street,gorleston,suffolk
reg.dist; mutford
marriage index
name; william smith
y.o.r. 1858
qtr; jul/aug/sept
dist; mutford
vol; 4a
page; 1029
on the same page mary ann tyrell,mary ann chapman
i would imagine it was mary ann tyrell he marries
as there is a eliza tyrell visiting in 1861
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1841
possibly him
HO107/1029/12/58/32
charles smith age 35. occ. agr.lab
elizabeth smith age 33
william smith age 9
charlotte smith age 7
mary smith age 2
jacob smith age 10mnths
all born in suffolk
living at; fenn street,gorleston,suffolk
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just read your p.m
so will stop this search of william smith born gorleston
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with regard to your question regarding eliza benton
birth index
name; eliza robina benton
y.o.r. 1873
qtr;jul/aug/sept
dist; st.ives
vol; 3b
page; 287
p.s do you want me to continue searching for henry smith who was living in durham in 1891?
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Im getting a bit lost with henry. He is recorded as henry william smith on the birth and marriage certificates of his daughters.The 1911 census says Henry was born yarmouth
My grandmother Robina had a bible and wrote in it Henry smith death 1941 age 74 which would mean he was born in 1867 but the 1911 census says Henry was born 1873.
The 1911 census also has him as a bricklayer labourer which we also have recorded on his daughters marriage certificate.
There seems to be a 6 year gap but I do know when i was looking for my grandmother Robina Smith we thought her birthday was 5-11-1916 when it actually was 15th December 1912.
Robinas birth certificate is 15th Dec 1912 but on her death certificate it shows her birth as 5th Nov 1916, she died in grimsby.
Can you help find one of the other daughters while I wait for Henry and Elizas wedding certificate.
In 1911 Lizzey smith born 1906 broom park we cant find her birth.
she is registered Elizabeth Ann Ovenden when she died in june 1951 aged 44 mill lane Billingham.
She married Sydney Edward Ovenden in middlesborough Dec 1929 her name registered on the marriage certificate is Lilian Elizabeth Ann Smith.
No one knows her real name this family changed there names about as Robina smith born 1912 was also called Vera.
Did Henry and Eliza have any more children after 1912 as my mum remebers an aunt Jenny/Jennie.
Thank you
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broom park reg dist is durham
between 1905-1907 there are 7 births of an elizabeth smith
4 of these births have other names that do not match yours
of the other 3 births one was in the jan qtr 1905 so probably to early to have been yours
that leaves 2
both were regd as elizabeth smith
both were in 1906
one was in the apr/may/jun qtr
the other one was in the jul/aug/sept qtr
you could send off for these certs
stating to only send the one with henry/eliza as parents
i think they charge you a bit extra to do this but not as much as the cost of a full cert
as for the birth after 1912 of a jenny/jennie/jeanie smith with mothers maiden name benton i cannot find one?
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there is a jennie smith birth regd in durham in jul/aug/sept 1911 but mothers maiden name is harwood
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thank you I will get in touch with durham and get the birth certificate. Henry and Eliza had a daughter called jane but my mum said she used to visit aunt jenny who was nanas sister I wonder if jane is jenny, this family all had different names as I explained before,
Robina used the name Vera
Jane could of used Jenny
Elizabeth used the name lilian
Henry was called Harry also
Henry the son used to live on sherbaun road durham and he was at some stage a rag and bone man do you know how I can find out more info on him I dont no if he got married mum said he had a lady friend and there has been talk about an aunt Bettie which no one knows really who she is or if she was Henrys girlfriend/exwife.
In 1912/1913 did they do electrol rolls in broom park and if so do you know how and were I can get this information.
I have ordered Henry the fathers marriage certificate so when this information comes hopefully I will be able to find out about the smith family thank you for your reply.
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according to the 1871 census
mary ann smiths husband is away but his occupation is down as fisherman(so when henrys marr cert arrives hopefully it will state fathers occupation as fisherman deceased)
by 1881 mary ann is down as a widower
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On robina smiths marriage certificate it said harry who we know as Henry was a seaman/fisherman but we know from his other childrens marriage cert he is a labourer.
I am still waiting for the certificate to come hopefully by next week.
Robina smith went into a nunnery to be a nun but came out of the church just before she took her last vow do you know how I can find any info on this.
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On robina smiths marriage certificate it said harry who we know as Henry was a seaman/fisherman but we know from his other childrens marriage cert he is a labourer.
I am still waiting for the certificate to come hopefully by next week.
Robina smith went into a nunnery to be a nun but came out of the church just before she took her last vow do you know how I can find any info on this.
afraid not
but you could start a new post asking this question
the chances are someone on here will know
mick
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received marriage certificate of eliza and henry. Henry dad is Stimson smith hartlepool area born 1841 in 1845 he is on a ship to new york but then
in 1860 he is in bristol kindall.
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The last surviving members of the Benton family currently live in London England. Benjamin Benton born 9th July 1921 and died 15th June 2009 married Edith Halpin and had three children. *
For information, i am applying for Roll of Peerage through the crown office. Benton is a noble family from Northampton and has a direct line of succession to the title. However, was removed after the Norman Conquest. If there is any other Bentons in England, I would very much like to hear from you.
* see next reply
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Welcome to Rootschat :)
Rootschat is really here to help people find their ancestors, not their living relatives, and because of that, we do have a 'no living people policy'. That means if you do post names and information about them it will be removed to protect their identity and privacy. Please see Posting Guidelines in Help pages (click on Help at top of page)
Best wishes, aghadowey (Moderator)
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Hi
[ and welcome to Rootschat ]
Do you mean this Benjamin D W Benton who married Edith M Halpin?
Benjamin Daniel W Benton [83y]
[B 9 Jul 1921]
DeathReg 2005 March Bromley No=A45 Dist=222/1A Ent=169
Ray
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hi all
I dont know if anyone can help me at all please I seem to have come to a dead end, I am looking for information on Frederick Benton 22/11/1910 he had 3 illegitimate children with Elsie-may Harris although she took his name of benton even though they were not married, he had a stint in prison in 1930's rumour has it, born and bred in Birmingham
thank you !
sam