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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: tofgem on Monday 05 October 09 19:15 BST (UK)
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Is there anyone who is local to the Hassall Green area who can help me please?
My ancestor George Pierpoint and his family lived in Hassall Green in 1861. The census describes his residence as 'Hassall Green Fields'. I believe that there is no such location today and was wondering whether anyone has done any research and can help me to locate this area in 1861. I had thought that it could have been the farm shown on the old maps as 'The Fields', but according to the census there are rather a lot of people living in Hassall Green Fields and the possibility is receding into the distance.
Any suggestions gratefully accepted.
Tofgem
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Hi Tofgem
Can you give us the census reference please
Linda
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Hi Linda
I only downloaded the image from A....... and as I no longer have access, I do not have the reference. However, I have since found a transcription of the census of the area (see p9/10):
http://www.odd-rode.org.uk/census/1861%20Betchton.pdf
This may help.
The description of the district covered by the enumerator may help someone who knows the area, but again, I no longer have access.
I have looked at the Cheshire tithe maps site and studied the 1875 OS map, but I am none the wiser.
Tofgem
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Hi Tofgem
This is what it says in the district description (Betchton District 7), but I'm not sure it will tell you any more than the link you posted. Still, nothing ventured...
The following is the order in which this District and the places in it have been visited
1st Township of Hassall - Roughwood, ??ess Bank, Sodley Smithy, Day Green, Dunnocks? Field, Bostock House, Hassall Hall, Hassall, Hassall Moss and Malkins Bank
2nd Township of Betchton - Malkins Bank, Fields Malkins Bank, Fields Hassall Green, Hassall Green Cross, Hassall Green, Roughwood and the Sonet?
If you go to google maps and search for Bostock House, Hassall Hall, Hassall Moss and Roughwood, these still exist, as does Malkins Bank.
I think this is the best I can do. Hope you manage to find a 'local'
Linda
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Hi Linda
Thanks for looking.
When I'm feeling quiet and calm ;D ;D I'll sit down with the maps (I have old and present day maps) and try to work it out. As you say most of the place names still exist so I should certainly be able to work out the route taken. I don't think that I am going to get any more information unless someone has already researched the area.
Again, many thanks for your time and effort.
Tofgem
(Why do I always want to know the impossible?)
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'The Fields' Hassall Green is on the road from Hassall Green to Malkins Bank almost opposite Cross Farm - the 1861 census confirms this as it is shown as the next property to Cross Farm.
I have it on the 1910 map and it also shown on a modern OS map although not named - so I assume it is still there - it is now right next to the M6.
It looks like a large property probably previously a farmhouse and on the 1861 census is shown as split up into 4 parts which is not unusual.
Peter
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Hi Peter
You have just confirmed my original choice of location. I think that this will have to be my final decision. It is shown on the present day larger scale OS maps as Fields Farm.
Thank you very much for your trouble.
Tofgem
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hi peter
regarding the above the location you have settled on is correct I have been there myself.........however during the period you are looking at there was a large gypsy site some where around there and given as you say the many different people situated there I think there,s a fairly good chance that it is this you are looking at
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Hi Rastajill
Thanks for that. I'm interested in the gypsy camp. Do you have any more information? I like to set the scene for the homes of my ancestors.
Tofgem
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i will have a dig around for you regarding gypsy camp, however if that is where your ancestors lived it cam be difficult to find out a great deal, there are a few sites i know that deal with gypsy camps and names, perhaps if you could email me your ancestors name i can look for you down at local libray to see if there is anything in one of there local history books. if they did reside on the site regarding gypsys your search will either reveal loads or nothing. My grandfather lived with gypsys many times and was regarded by all as being one and my search for info on him proved very difficult, but i will see what i can find
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Hi Rastajill
My ancestors did not live with the gypsies (or at least I don't think so), George was a salt boiler and emigrated to Australia in 1865. Unfortunately I am one of those people who tends to go off at tangents and likes to set the scene. My family history folder contains all sorts of social and economic history re the area in which my ancestors lived. If you have any general information I would be grateful, but don't go to any trouble.
Tofgem
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hi thanks for your reply if he was a salt boiler its quite possable you can find out more on the web theres a site that tells about salt workers in cheshire and it tells you which mine they were connected to i just googled salt workers in cheshire and it came up
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Thanks for that Rastajill.
I think I have exhausted my research on George as a saltworker. The list you refer to is actually for workers in Northwich in 1881 and George emigrated to Australia in 1865. We have narrowed down the possibilities of which saltworks he could have worked at.
Tofgem
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There was a Saltworks in Malkins Bank approx 1856.
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Hassel green is a small village that lies about 3 miles outside of sandbach and about 4 miles from congleton. Hassel green fields could well be a village term for the area that lay just to the on the outskirts of the village.
i note you say george was a salt miner, up untill about 1880 there was a small salt mine in a place called malkins bank which is situated to this day about three miles from the area you are interested in. I can find no actual maps for the period naming hassel green fields which is why i think it may be a local name, this is quite common in and around cheshire even today.
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I was born in Hassall Green. Fields Farm is a traditional brick 19th century farm complex of house and shippon (local term) but there was a much earlier timber-framed farm dated to 1638 just across the road, now sadly gone. Fields Farm is relatively close to the hamlet of Hassall Green and therefore the term that you used (Hassall Green Fields) may well reflect the ribbon of houses that formed the original settlement. Hassall Green was first mentioned in the 14th century thus has a long history of settlement. There was a salt works here (Roughwood) in the late 17th-eraly 18th century. The T&M canal in the 18th century brought a new wave of building and during the 19th century helped to drive the development of chemical works in the next hamlet called Malkins Bank. (Malkins Bank is not in Hassall Green, this was always a source of local rivalry !)
As a child, I was told that the houses in Hassall Green in the ribbon development alongside the road were half-timbered, these were replaced with post-war housing for displaced families (WWII). The Methodists built a chapel in 1858 to "tame" the unruly residents, they had a reputation for cock-fighting ! A Methodist school followed in 1874 and this was the last Methodist school in the NW when it closed in the early 90s.
Let me know if I can help further
DrD
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Another snippit of information : This is from oral history but may link to your ancestors. I recall that on the Trent and Mersy canal about 1/2 mile above the hamlet of Hassall Green (ie upstream to use a poor analogy) there is a lock named Pierpoint Lock. I remember that there was a lock-keepers cottage by the bridge now long gone. I`m sure that there is documented evidence if you wish to further explore this further.
Regards
DrD
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Hi Ken60
Sorry for the delay in responding.
"There was a Saltworks in Malkins Bank approx 1856"
I have researched the saltworks in the vicinity and there were several that George could have worked at i.e within walking distance. I will never know which one was his place of work. Thanks for your suggestion.
Tofgem
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Hi Rastajill,
Sorry for the delay in responding to your input. I cannot find any reference to Hassall Green Fields on maps either. I have come to the conclusion using contemporary OS maps and the census enumerators's route that Hassall Green Fields referred to a group of houses which are now under the M6 motorway.
I will never know which saltworks George worked at as there were several within walking distance of Hassall Green.
Thank you for your response.
Tofgem
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Hi DrD
Thanks for your information. Local knowledge always adds to what is to be found in print. I like the idea of the Methodists trying to curb cockfighting with the building of a chapel, but I know they meant well.
After studying contemporary OS maps and the census enumerators's route I believe (maybe wrongly!) that Hassall Green Fields was a group of buildings which appear to have been located where the M6 motorway is now.
I am aware of Pierpoint Lock, but it is a mystery. No-one seems to know of the origin of the name. I do not live locally so cannot search for any local documentary evidence, but the Cheshire Locks Board do not know nor does the British Waterways Heritage Advisor. Something may turn up eventually.
Thank you for your response.
Tofgem
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The "lost" houses cleared for the M6 construction may well be the location since this is close to Fields Farm ~ just a little further along the road to Malkins Bank. Not sure if the old farmer is still alive (Tom Jones) at Fields Farm , we used to talk about the old days, but his son Brian is still farming there so may be worth contacting. There could also be photographs taken prior or during construction ~ Cheshire Record Office ?
Let me know if you need any more snippits, glad to help.
DrD