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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: Robert_Marr on Wednesday 21 September 05 15:30 BST (UK)
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My maternal grandfather was born in 1927 at Royal Berks Hospital. As an illigitimate child only his mother's details were recorded. She lived at a place named The Brook, Finchampstead Road, Wokingham. Does anyone with knowledge of the area know what this place is or if it still exists?
My grandfather was adopted the following year by a couple in Middlesex. On his marriage and death certificate, he died in 1969, his parents are recorded as his adoptive parents. As The Brook is one of my only links to his natural mother I'd like to find out more about it.
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The House was presumably nearby where the Finchampstead Road crosses Embrook. I can't remember without going for a walk whether there are any older houses remaining there. Certainly two of the probable four sites are occupied by a new housing estate and a large Tesco Store. The road is very long and so I won't be going any further along it.
There is also I believe a copy of the 1932 Kelly's directory in the local reference library. With the delay between details being collected and publish that could be extremely helpful. i will get back to you
David.
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Hi David,
Thanks for the information. I had a feeling that the building may not be there any longer but just wanted to check via someone with local knowledge.
If you do find anything in the "Kelly's directory". My gf's natural mother was named Kennedy and a dressmaker if this helps any.
Thanks
Robert
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Hi Robert,
I went into the reference library this morning and could find nothing about "The Brook". I then walked down the road to Tesco. My memory about the area where Finchampstead Road crosses Embrook was correct. The area being a modern housing estate, Tesco, a garage and a small "industrial" area.
There are however four oldish houses still there. Two of them un-named but two having been made from what was probably once one large house of two wings. One of these is named "Southbrook" and is the lesser of the two buildings and is on the south side. The other number 66, "The Warr Physiotherapy Clinic" is otherwise un-named. This seems a likely place and might be worth a letter. Telephoning wouldn't help because you would get stuck at reception. (I have used the clinic)
regards
David
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Thanks alot Dave for taking the time to look into this and giving the information on here. It is much appreciated.
Cheers
Robert
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Dear Robert,
My ancestors, the Twycross family, lived at The Brook, Wokingham. James Twycross was born in 1791 and died in 1860 and had 12 children. I have a lot of information about the family. I am not sure if any of the descendants still lived there in 1927, but I am sure there is information about the Twycross family available in Wokingham.
Chris
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I just noticed on the map of the Warr clinic that it is near Carey Rd. That was the maiden name of John Twycross's mother Mary Carey who was related to the Careys in Kingsleys " Westward Ho." I think there also may be a Twycross rd therabouts.
Chris
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That is an interesting observation. There is no Twycross Road in Wokingham. I don't know when Carey Road was named or even when it was constructed. It doesn't figure in any of the major extensions to the town.
It isn't named after a former mayor as many roads are, but the Charles Kingsley connection is very likely. Not as you would imagine through "Westward Ho" but through "The Water Babies"
Tom the chimney sweep is supposed to be based on a Wokingham boy who lived at 31 Rose Street. The house has a plaque and Kingsley is said to have lived in the area at the time that he wrote it. The house was earlier used as the Maiden School which is a coincidence in view of Kingsley's work in the area of education.
There is a modern but fairly traditional statue outside the library entrance commemorating the story.
Mother Carey features in the Water Babies.
James Seaward the boy sweep swept chimneys in Wokingham for 60 years, was the first working man to be elected to the council and was the only Alderman to decline election to mayor. He has a road named after him.
David
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Sorry there is a Twycross Road in Wokingham. I was using an old directory. It was presumably named after James Twycross who was mayor in 1858. I will try to locate it.
David
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Found Twycross Road.
Its one of the spine roads of the large new estate constructed off the Keephatch Road in the last five years.
David
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David,
Thanks for all the interesting info. i have in my records that James Twycross was a Justice of the Peace. Was he also mayor?
I wonder if you could find out where the Brook was located, possiblty the Warr clinic?
I also was curious to know how Twycross Rd received its name. Is it located near the Brook? i gather it was a recent name.
In 1947. JB Twycross-Raines , then quite elderly, corresponded with my grandmother in Melbourne, Australia, and knew some family history. In these papers I found the name of the Brook, Wokingham.
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David,
i just checked back on what you said. i think it is possible that Southbrook was part of a house that was divided into wings to divide 12 young boys and girls.
The Twycross family liked the idea of wings as John Twycross built a large wing on his house in Melbourne to house his large art collection.
Is the name "Brook" common in that area?
thanks,
Chris
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If you go back through this thread you will see that I attempted to find Brook House and came to the conclusion that it was probably the house that is now the Warr Clinic.
The process of choosing street names in Wokingham is that the council keeps a list of potential names which it regularly adds to as they are used up. The developers choose the names for a new estate from that list of names.
The list includes groups of names like tree, flowers etc. and all the previous mayors of Wokingham. The long serving mayors and those who have justified recognition seem to have been used first, but more recently all the other mayors seem to have been added to the list. James Twycross served for just the one year and I know nothing more about him.
The name "Brook" was presumably given to the house because it stands on the banks of Embrook. Most of the other houses in the immediate area have been redeveloped in the last twenty years and only four remain. The others have been replaced by a large Tesco supermarket and a small warehouse estate used for other out of town warehouse shops.
It is only about half a mile from the centre of Wokingham
David
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David,
This is great information, thanks! I tried to find a photo of the Warr clinic online with no luck. How large are these 2 houses (approximately) and do they seem to show original details?
Chris
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Although I have been inside the clinic I am not really sure. I only visited a chiropodist who worked in a small room to the right of the reception area. The clinic only appears to be two rooms wide from the road, and the attached house one or two. I am not sure how far back the clinic goes. The other house has its entrance on the side and gives the appearance of a wing at right angles to the clinic.
I think they are only two stories but I can't remember for sure. Its nothing particularly special. From memory they haven't been updated very much apart from the entrance o the clinic. As to age, there is nothing which immediately points to them as being anything other than late 19th century although I must admit I haven't examined the brick sizes etc..
Its not the main Warr Clinic but an offshoot of the one in Crowthorne and so if you had found a photograph it would probably have been the wrong one.
Unfortunately I am not digital or I would offer to take photograph.
David
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Thanks David,
Is it possible that this house was built as early as the 1850's?
I found no photo at all online, but don't worry about a photo. Next time if you go by the house , perhaps you could observe the colour and the size of the bricks. It may not be the house I am searching for.
Do you have ancestors in this area?
regards,
Chris
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I went to have a look at the Warr Clinic this morning and I am not sure that I am much wiser.
The Warr Clinic is in a house called North Brook House. I walked down the side and it is bigger than I thought. There appear to be about ten good size sash windows upstairs. Maybe some rooms have two windows. Apart from the front, the building is rendered in creamy yellow and while one can see the brickwork through it the age is difficult to work out.
South Brook is behind a high fence and high gates and much more difficult to see. The house itself is in pretty well original condition and I would describe it as built rather than designed. It is probably slightly smaller than NBH. The brickwork at the front uses slightly larger bricks than NBH, the windows are of different sizes to each other and the woodwork under the roof is applied where it is needed rather than symmetrically.
The front of NBH has been designed to match and this makes it very difficult to estimate the actual age of this part of what was obviously once a single building. SB has a slate roof and the ridge is lead, NBH use matching modern tiles and has a tiled ridge.
It is difficult to tell how much of NBH is recent refurbishment and how much is the original extension. My guess is that SB is probably mid 19th century and NBH early 20th.
At the back there is a further dwelling called "The Stables" which looks as though it could be as old as the original but I couldn't get very close.
Carey Road is just the other side of the railway bridge and is obviously a road which has gradually been developed away from the Finchhampstead Road parallel with the railway. The row of older cottages look a little newer than the railway bridge which I know was constructed in the early 1850s.
With regard to your question, I have no ancestors in the town but I have lived here for thirty years.
David
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Dear David,
I see there is an antique shop near there that has Brook in its name. Are you familiar with it?
thanks again
Chris
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Hi again,
I just realised there is another whole page of postings that I missed. You certainly gave a wonderfully comprehensive description of the house that i will send to my family in Australia. About how many yards or meters is it from any section of Carey Rd?
Even if it is not the correct house, its fun to search!
Chris
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I'll give you some idea of the distances involved. It is about a quarter of a mile down Denmark Street (Down Street in the 1850s) due south from the town hall in the centre of Wokingham to Carey Road. Within about 30 yards of passing Carey Road you go under a low railway bridge and it's about another 100 yards to the Brook houses on the left.
Immediately opposite on the right hand side is small warehouse type shopping area with a Majestic Wine Shop opposite the entrance to SBH. This area used to be occupied by the "Pin and Bowl" Public House and behind it up an entrance by the railway bridge Wokingham Town Football Club Ground. This is now a new housing estate.
A further fifty yards on the left after passing a garage and one other house on the left and new housing on the right you cross the bridge over the Embrook beyond which is a small new roundabout and a large Tesco Superstore.
With regard to your antique shop I have no idea. There isn't one in town and the shops in Denmark Street stop half way to the railway bridge. In what is by then Finchhampstead Road, there is only one shop on the left, which sells lighting and is in what looks like converted chapel just before Carey Road, opposite the new swimming pool and a drive in but fire gutted Burger King (in the last two months).
If you can give me the full name of the antique shop I will find out for you.
David
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Hi there I'm new to this board but found this thread interesting although a tad old now.
I thought you might be interested in a website called Images of England www.imagesofengland.org.uk which is run by English Heritage. There is a photograph of Southbrook at 68 Finchampstead Road along with a description as late 18th century with 20th century modifications. Might be useful when considering other buildings in that row.
Hope this helps if its not too late!
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That is the house to which I was referring. As I said that entrance is now blocked by large wooden gates and a fence on top of the wall making it is almost impossible to see. The original house is a lot older than I thought it was. What I previously referred to as the front was the side facing onto the road.
David
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Hi,
Profound thanks to both of you. I feel that this is most likely the home of the Twycross family. I am excited to see the photograph of the house, especially since you say it is no longer visible from the road.
However although I registered on this website, I cannot seem to make it work.
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I didn't register I just typed "Southbrook" in the "quick search" and then clicked "more"
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Type Finchampstead Road into the quick search and its the only one that comes up.
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I tried both of those ideas, no result . On my web page it says "submit" rahter than "more". I am in the United States.
Thanks, will keep trying, can you copy photo onto roots page?
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Did you click "submit"? That brings up a small picture and then you click "more"
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Hi,
I keep trying, but The Brook turned up 1500 results, whereas Finchampstead Rd turned up no results. Apparently though, the house has been listed as historic , otherwise it would not be on the site.
However what is historic in the US or Australia is recent history in England!
Are you able to attach an image, or doesnt that "images of England " allow that?
Is there a URL you can send?
thanks a lot.
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Try "southbrook". It should bring up three results
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On the Images of England home page in the quick search section type Finchampstead Road. It must be Road and not Rd that you type or you get no results. Then click on the submit button and then it will I promise be the only result you get.
You can then click on the more button to see a larger image.
An alternative is if you have registered log in to the website with your username and password and click on the submit button. This will bring up the advance search screen which has an option to search by IoE number. In this panel type 41671 and click on the submit button at the bottom right of the screen. This will bring up the relevant image.
And yes it is Grade II listed and of historical interest.
Good luck
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Dear Behind the Frogs and Kenike,
Your patience has paid off. I somehow feel that this is the right house, and your patience has paid off. I am very excited, and will send this info to my family.
I can only say that it is a lovely house. Is this the same house where the Warr clinic has been set up. If you are OK with sending me your email, I could email you some information about my family, or post it to England on a CD. Thanks for historic info.
If you live around Wokingham i have other questions.
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You can't see the Warr Clinic which is in North Brook. This is off to the left of the picture and is joined to SouthBrook just off the picture. As described above it is a more modern building in the same style but still about 100 years old. As it has no imposing entrance I think they were all one building at one time
Yes I do live in Wokingham. If you have further questions about the town send a message to me. If you are not familiar with this just click on the green scroll to the left of this reply or just add your questions to this thread.
I have lived in the town over thirty years and I am an occasional member of the local history group whose meetings unfortunately clash with another of my interests.
David
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Glad to hear you have now accessed the image. Its not a terribly good picture but gives some idea.
I also have lived in the area for a number of years and as behindthefrogs says just give us a shout if you need more help. If I dont know the answer immediately it may be possible to source the information locally.
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Thanks so much to both of you. I will try the green scroll.
I do have others questions if either of you have time to do a little research, it would be great. I am hoping, in the future to visit Wokingham.
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HI BEHIND THE FROGS, YOU WROTE
"The Warr Clinic is in a house called North Brook House. I walked down the side and it is bigger than I thought. There appear to be about ten good size sash windows upstairs. Maybe some rooms have two windows. Apart from the front, the building is rendered in creamy yellow and while one can see the brickwork through it the age is difficult to work out.
South Brook is behind a high fence and high gates and much more difficult to see. The house itself is in pretty well original condition and I would describe it as built rather than designed. It is probably slightly smaller than NBH. The brickwork at the front uses slightly larger bricks than NBH, the windows are of different sizes to each other and the woodwork under the roof is applied where it is needed rather than symmetrically."
IS NBH ATTACHED TO SBH TO FORM A SQUARE OR PERHAPS AN L SHAPE?
"The front of NBH has been designed to match and this makes it very difficult to estimate the actual age of this part of what was obviously once a single building. SB has a slate roof and the ridge is lead, NBH use matching modern tiles and has a tiled ridge.
It is difficult to tell how much of NBH is recent refurbishment and how much is the original extension. My guess is that SB is probably mid 19th century and NBH early 20th.
At the back there is a further dwelling called "The Stables" which looks as though it could be as old as the original but I couldn't get very close.
IS THERE SOME BARRIER THERE THAT PREVENTS GETTING CLOSER? ARE THE STABLES INHABITED?
Carey Road is just the other side of the railway bridge and is obviously a road which has gradually been developed away from the Finchhampstead Road parallel with the railway. The row of older cottages look a little newer than the railway bridge which I know was constructed in the early 1850s."
THE DIRECTIONS YOU GAVE WERE VERY HELPFUL. I HOPE TO VISIT.
CHRIS
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In early November 1853 , John,(31) James (28)and Annie (32) Twycross set sail on the Harbinger for Australia, arriving on December 23rd. (FROM ENGLAND)
THEY WERE PART OF A LARGE FAMILY OF 12 , THE OFFSPRING OF JAMES TWYCROSS, A JP OF WOKINGHAM. IN AUSTRALIA, JOHN AMD JAMES EVENTUALLY ESTABLISHED A WOOL BUSINESS WITH THEIR FATHER JAMES IMPORTING THE WOOL BACK TO ENGLAND...
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The map exactly matches your description-its amazing!.
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What I meant to say was that I used your description of distances from the centre of town, the railway bridge etc to find the location of Brook House on the map.
It all makes sense as the details of the house and the family seem to fit. As I said the map also clearly shows the shape of the house before it was divided.
Chris
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Hi,
Is this the correct location of the house as you described, from 1887?
link to oldmaps (http://www.old-maps.co.uk/oldmaps/index_external.jsp?easting=480997&northing=168073&countyCode=2)
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Yes you have found the right place.
David
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Thanks, David, I would not have been able to negotiate the map to find the outline of "The Brook" without your very specific instructions. I hope to be able to visit the house in the future,
Best wishes,
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I have an ancester who was a servant at The Brook in 1861 and would like to add my thanks for the link to the photo. In case anyone is interested, her name was Mary Chaplin and she was 28.
Gary
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Hi Gary,
Yes, this is very interesting. your ancestor must have worked for the Twycross family. Do you have any other information, such as letters etc.
I have copies of photographs of the children.
Family members remained interested in the railways.
Chris
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Hi Emmarine,
I realise that I failed to answer one of your questions. On the Wokingham side of North Brook House there is an unmade road leading to a number of houses. The first of these on the right is what appears to be the converted stables of Brook House. There is not particularly a barrier but a reasonably sized gated private garden which I did not venture into.
You mentioned an interest in railways. I can recount a bit of the history of the railway which runs past Brook House if you are interested.
David
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Thanks David,
this is interesting news. If you ever walk past there again, would you be able to collect an address of the stables, and I will write a letter to whoever lives there and see if they reply. In case I visit England in the future I would like a chance to see inside these places if possible.
As far as the railways are concerned I would like to learn more about their construction near where the house is located, as it appears that they lived in
the middle of a triangle created by the railways, and considering their involvement with the wool business, were living in the age of the industrial revolution in England that must have seen many dramatic changes in the environment....
My grandfather and my father were extremely interested in trains. I have a lovely photo of my father with his toy set in about 1920 ,that was of German origin, and he still treasures it.
thanks,
Chris
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The railway history of the area is basically as follows.
1840 The Reading to Paddington Line is opened.
1849 A line is constructed from Reading to Guildford and then extended to Dorking and Redhill. This is the original line which runs to the south of Brook House.
1856 The railway line from Staines reached Wokingham providing a direct link to London. This was built by an independent company under the Staines Wokingham and Woking Junction Railway Act. It had running powers to Reading over the Reading to Redhill line which it joins just before Wokingham Station. This line runs just north of Brook House.
1938 The line between Reading and Staines was electrified. The line to Redhill is still served by a Diesel Service today.
David
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Thanks so much David,
I will be getting out a map to look more closely at these connections.
This is very informative, and is concise information that would take a lot of digging to find.
Chris
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I forgot all about this thread. Thanks very much to all of you for the information that you have provided. It's been a really interesting read. As my grandfather was adopted a before he was one years old and since he died before I was born I know nothing of his family. I was very lucky to find a member of the Kennedy family online and they provided me with a tree. That has given me so much information that I could not have found out on my own. They didn't know about my grandfather though and as such he was not included in the tree.
I don't know how the Kennedys came to be at the Brook or have a precise date when they moved there. My grandfather Jimmy was born there in 1927 as I stated in the first post and his mother, Emily May, lived there too at the time. May as she was known was born in 1901 but not at the Brook. The address she was born at was Peach Street. The youngest of her siblings, Alfred, was born at Market Place in 1910 so it was sometime between then and 1927 that the Kennedys came to be in the Brook. Indeed May's father Henry died there in 1929.
I noticed looking through the tree that quite a few of the family were buried at All Saints. Do any of you know if this is close to the Brook?
Thanks
Robert
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All Saints is the Wokingham Parish Church and is about a mile from the Brook. If you are walking you go staight to the town centre, turn right and after about another half mile you come to All Saints. ( I live about half a mile further on) By car it is a bit more complicated because of one way traffic systems.
The alternative which is St Paul's wasn't consecrated until 1864 a year after the parish was created. This is only a little further away turning left at the centre of town and heading towards Reading or alternatively following the railway just beyond the station. The parish boundary appears to follows the Finchampstead Road which I think puts Brook House into All Saints parish.
However this is even more confused by another parish of St Sebastian being created in 1871. This is to the south and I can't work out where its northern boundary is.
David
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David,
thanks for the information. I noticed alot of Kennedys were buried at All Saints from 1910 onwards and there were baptisms there from earlier. I thought it must be close by.
Cheers
Robert
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thanks for the information. I noticed alot of Kennedys were buried at All Saints from 1910 onwards and there were baptisms there from earlier. I thought it must be close by.
I have just received a draft copy of the MIs for All Saints, Wokingham - should be available from Berks FHS in a few weeks.
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thanks for the information. I noticed alot of Kennedys were buried at All Saints from 1910 onwards and there were baptisms there from earlier. I thought it must be close by.
I have just received a draft copy of the MIs for All Saints, Wokingham - should be available from Berks FHS in a few weeks.
Cheers. I'll look out for that.
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I was looking for something else in the 1881 census today and as I stepped through the households I came to "The Brook" This was a private house with a separate household of servants.
There was then another property called "East Brook" which was a private school with what looked like paying boarding pupils.
David
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I have just found this thread - James Twycross was the brother of my great great great great grandmother Ann Twycross (married name Burchatt) of Godalming, where James Twycross was born. I have a copy of the will of their father John Twycross (a leather dresser) of Godalming - James was an executor for his will, and is described as a woolstapler of Wokingham. I would love to find out more about what sounds a very interesting family. One of the messages mentions that he was mayor in 1858 - does anyone know any more about this? I was also very interested to hear that there are photos of James's children.
JC
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It is interesting that he describes himself as a woolstapler. I had always regarded that job, a wool sorter, as a rather lowly job whereas James would appear to have been a wool importer a local JP and a person of some standing. I also can't find any immediate information about a wool business in Wokingham. There were some sheep in the area but these appear to have been on mixed farms and not on any scale.
David
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It is interesting that he describes himself as a woolstapler. I had always regarded that job, a wool sorter, as a rather lowly job
A wool stapler is not a 'wool sorter' but a dealer in wool. Many wool staplers were very wealthy in the days when the wool trade was England's main industry.
The wool trade employed huge numbers of people - most in agriculture (shepherds, drovers etc) or processing the wool (spinners, dyers, weavers etc). However, there were three groups who made very good money - of these the wool stapler was probably be the least financially successful. Staplers would buy wool at markets and wholesale it to the clothiers who would turn it into cloth and sell it to merchant adventurers who exported it to the Flemish markets in Antwerp etc. Clothiers could be fabulously wealthy (eg Jack of Newbury) but the merchants were the ones who made the most - Sir Thomas Gresham bought a lot of cloth from the Newbury clothiers. Gresham was probably the most important financier of the Tudor age - advisor to Henry VIII, Edward VI, Mary and Elizabeth I.
By the C19th a wool stapler would be importing wool as foreign wools made better cloth (I believe Spanish wool was particularly popular). By that time the wool trade was dying out in Berkshire - its peak was pre1600.
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It is interesting that he describes himself as a woolstapler. I had always regarded that job, a wool sorter, as a rather lowly job
A wool stapler is not a 'wool sorter' but a dealer in wool. Many wool staplers were very wealthy in the days when the wool trade was England's main industry.
Every one of sixteen dictionaries which I have checked (fourteen of them online which took a few seconds) including one of mine which is nearly 100years old define a wool stapler as someone who sorts wool according to its staple i.e. the quality of its fibre. A few of them as an aside mention that the term is also used for a dealer. I will agree that in this case he was a dealer but I still wonder where he carried out his business.
David
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I have a wool stapler who lived in Cirencester d. 1860. He is sometimes described as a wool stapler, and sometimes a fellmonger ie. a dealer in animal - usually sheep - hides. He was wealthy enough to have property to leave to his children, and going by his children's marriages, moved among a circle of other comfortably off citizens such as farmers and wine merchants.
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Thanks for all the interesting information. I have found a James Twycross on the 1851 census. It states that he was born in Godalming, Surrey and was living in 1851 in Wokingham. It describes him as a tanner and wool stapler master employing 43 persons in trade, and gives his age as 55. Regarding the address, it just gives the number 46 - I have looked back to number 1, but no street name is given - the page is just headed with 'Wokingham (part of)'.
Looking back at previous entries in this thread, it appears that the three children didn't go to Australia until 1853, so he presumably wouldn't have been described as a wool importer until then, unless he was already importing from anywhere else?
I found census entries for 1851 and 1861 which appear to relate to the children -
For 1851 there is an entry giving a James Twycross (aged 25) and Ann Twycross (aged 28). James is described as a wool stapler (if I remember correctly it said that he employed approximately 30 men) and they are both listed as being born in Wokingham. They are both listed as being unmarried.
The entry for 1861 gives a James Twycross aged 37 as a visitor, with his profession given as an Australian merchant. Fortunately it is possible to identify the two as the same person, as some people are listed as visitors in the 1851 census, who are in turn given as James's hosts in the 1861 census - presumably he had returned from Australia to stay with them.
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Are there any named houses or businesses in the same street? If there are I can probably locate it for you. I don't have access to the 1851 census currently and so I can't help directly. Can you get back to where it specifies the enumerators walk?
David
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Searching this website:
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/
Slater's Directory of Berkshire, 1852
Wokingham pages
Under 'Woolstaplers'
'Twycross, James & Son, Peach Street and The Brook, Wokingham: Bradford, Yorkshire and Rochdale, Lancashire'
and under 'Miscellaneous'
'Twycross, George and John, tanners Tannery'
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Thanks very much to both of you for helpful information. On James Twycross's census entry for 1851 he mentions his son George aged 33 - he lists him as having no occupation. Census details to follow ....
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Some of the place names are quite hard to read, so it may be a difficult task!
In reverse order (leaving out the numbers with no names next to them) -
70 and 69 are both Martins Lane, 68 is Lucas's Hospital, 65 is Benhams Buildings, 54 is Prospect Place, 48 looks like Prospict Place, James is 46, there is an uninhabited building between 46 and 45, 44 is hard to read but could be ?Beulam or ?Bewlany Houses, 43 is the gasworks, 32 looks like Tangleys Farm, 26 could be ?Hagril Farm, 24 is ?Woodcray or ?Hoodcray Farm, and 11 is ?Birchin Inams or ?Birkin Israms Farm. How can I find out where the enumerators were to walk?
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If you are using Ancestry, on the census image page look above the image where there is a line like this:
You are here: Search > Census > UK Census Collection > 1901 England Census > Middlesex > Harefield > District 5
Make a note of the district number then click on the place name immediately before that. It will list the district numbers with links to 'view description of enumeration district', which is what you want.
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If you follow my earlier posting where I showed how to get from The Brook to All Saints Church then when you reach the centre of the town and bear right towards the church that is Peach Street. Not long before 1851 it would have been Peak Street originally in the 14th century called Le Peche Street probably after the Peche family.
The census location which you have described is The Brook. I don't entirely understand the numbering because the low numbers you describe are further out from the centre of town beyond Lucas Hospital. Woodcray Farm is today a pick your own farm. All that I recognise of what you have described is on or just off the Finchampstead Road and all appear to be on the left hand side going out of town.
David
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Thanks very much indeed for your help. It has been fascinating to hear all the details you have given about James and the town. I shall certainly try and visit Wokingham and the house in the near future and in the meantime I will try and orientate myself via the information which you have very kindly given in your previous postings. You mentioned in one of them that James was mayor in 1858. Do you have any more details about this?
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I know no more about his time as mayor than I typed on the first page of this thread. Next time I go to the library I will look to see if there is any history of Wokingham mayors. Otherwise I would suggest a letter to the Town Hall which is in the Market Place. This is the town council which should not be confused with Wokingham District Council.
David
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It has been pointed out to me that prior to 1885 the Mayor of Wokingham was called the Alderman. He was elected in the same sort of way as the current Mayor to serve for one year in the year following his election.
I say in the same way but there is a story that around the end of the 17th century the worthies who qualified for election sat around a table. A louse was procured from one of their wigs and placed in the middle of a ring of beer in which each participant made a gap with his finger and the one whose gap it crawled through was elected. This caused Wokingham, to be called Louse Town for many years.
Perhaps we should elect our modern politicians in a similar civilised way.
David
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Pigot 1830 shows Jas. Wycross as a woolstapler and fell monger at Brook. I am left wondering whether at this time he just dealt in hides and skins or whether he carried out the whole process. The Brook as it then seems to have been called was sufficiently close to the running water that he would have required.
David
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Hi David,
Another poster fletcherhist (Jim) is doing a booklet on the Twycrosses for All Saints Church .
I am summarising a lot of the very good information on these posts, and need to ask each person if they object to me quoting or using the information with acknowledgement.
I was particularly grateful for the way you located Brook House,
will await your reply,
Chris
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No problem. Most of what I have posted is public information. If he wants to contact me directly I am happy as I live just up the road from All Saints. He will work out where.
David
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Pigot 1830 shows Jas. Wycross as a woolstapler and fell monger at Brook. I am left wondering whether at this time he just dealt in hides and skins or whether he carried out the whole process. The Brook as it then seems to have been called was sufficiently close to the running water that he would have required.
David
I just wanted to give you a belated thankyou for finding this interesting information. Unfortunately I don't have enough knowledge on the subject to give a helpful reply, but hopefully the lady at the library may come up with something on Tuesday!
JC1
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Sorry I should have explained more about a Fellmonger. Similarly to a woolstapler the job varies between someone who simply sold skins and hides to someone who ran a knackers yard and sold all the animal products involved.
However the skilled job was someone who took the hides from the slaughter house and removed the hair or wool from ther skins. The initial part of this process involved soaking the hides in a supply of clean water for six to ten hours to remove dirt and remains of flesh, and to soften the skins. After further hand washing they were drained and the flesh side coated with lime and other chemicals.
This process loosened the hair or wool which was removed by a "puller" leaving both a skin to be sold on to a tanner and undamaged hair or wool. The wool would be dried, conditioned and sorted before being sold on to a spinner.
You can thus see how the occupations of fellmonger and woolstapler were closely linked and why I referred to the need for a supply of fresh water.
David
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I am also trying to find out more information about Edward Twycross, the silversmith who worked in Dublin in the 1820's, signing his hallmark as TWY+,
Edward Power & Edward Twycross of Dublin in 1825.
and the Edward Twycross who wrote " Mansions of England and Wales" London 1846
they could be the same person.
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Hi Gary,
Yes, this is very interesting. your ancestor must have worked for the Twycross family. Do you have any other information, such as letters etc.
I have copies of photographs of the children.
Family members remained interested in the railways.
Chris
Hi Chris
Firstly a big apology for taking so long to get back to you (almost a year!) and I have no excuses except being spread too thin.
Anyway to belatedly answer your question...unfortunately I have nothing from Mary Chaplin - no letters, no diaries, no photos, nothing! Interestingly she married a John Vass who spent the same census night in The Police Station! No idea why or why he was there alone at the time.
If you DO have any photos, I'd love to have a look...just in case! I have no idea what Mary looked like.
Regards
Gary
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This reply is about three years to late as i have not long joined but will put it in anyhow,I grew up in Embrook,spent many happy hours paddling and fishing in the Brook there,I was born in 1948 also in the Royal Berks Hospital,we first lived in nissen huts in Toutley camp Embrook at the other end of Toutley camp was Finchampstead Road,now days Embrook is classed as quite a good area,but not so in my day,(everyone knew everybody else) we then moved to Toutley road also the Finchampstead Road ran along the top here,you could walk to Hurst from here.
Families that I remember.
Randalls/Joyce/Frances/Cook/Parfitt/Hamblin/Eamer/Bowden/Langley/Tildsley /Bowyer/Dance,to name a few.
Joyce
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I think that you are confused Joyce. Finchampstead Road runs south from the centre of Wokingham being a continuation of Denmark Street and crosses the Embrook about half a mile south of the town centre.
Embrook from there runs from the south towards the west of the town before heading north west to the areas known as Embrook and Toutley which lie between the A329 and the A329M. Toutley today is the corporation depot and tip.
David
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Yes David,
another senior moment,it has been 40 years LOl, but as my brother lives near Finchampstead Rd should have known better,cant think of the name of the Road now that runs from Earley,past Embrook/Toutley Road/through to Binfield.9or at least did when I was young)
When I lived in Toutley Road were about 14 houses,gardens were a 1/4 of an acre ,the middle houses,ours included were knocked down as the M4 was going through there originaly but they changed their mind and the route,the Dog and Duck was my dads local.
Joyce
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The only road that I can think of was Forest Road which joined the Reading Road at Winnersh. It used to go to Binfield and beyond but was cut in half just outside Toutley when the A329M was built.
David
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I was just about to reply,yes it is Forest Road,what is now Commons road in Embrook was Toutley camp,just looked on google,cant believe how its grown,from Dog and duck used to walk up the Hill ,two farmhouses belonging to Mathews green Farm then round the corner,our houses,starting from number 74 to 92,ours was 86,even numbers only,dont know where the numbers came from LOL no other houses around,then there was the pumping staion,water works and Static condensors at the bottom of the road,I worked there in my school holidays aged 13 and when i left school for a while,if you look at google there was a road originaly planned from M4 to A329,this was why our house was demolished.
memmories,LOl
Joyce
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I,m not sure if I can help at all ...but saw your thread and know a little about the building you are talking about. The Brook
This building was brought in about 1981-82 by the Warr family and renavated but while doing this we uncovered some odd things ...if you are still interested please leave a post as I,m not sure as they are stil alive that I should post anymore here ..........sorry
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Hi,
which building are you talking about,is it the cottage that belonged to the Static?,then I can understand what you mean by odd things and can explain more.
Joyce
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crossed wires,with you now,not my post.
joyce
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I,m talking about the building in Finchampstead road opp Tesco that is now used as a physio clinic under the name of The Warr Clinic
Hope this is clearer
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Hi,
This is Emmarine. you can find me on earlier pages and I am descended from the Twycross family who lived at Brook House with their 12 children until the 1860's. I believe it is now the Warr clinic.
You have some interesting memories of Wokingham.
What did you find at Brook house , or praps I could send you an email.
These people on this posting have helped me a lot with my family history.
I am also interested to see how much of the original house remained after the renovation.
Thanks
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As it is a listed building and I think the renovation was within the last twenty years I would have thought that most of the original building remains. My view is that only the inside of North Brook House (the clinic) plus the entrance were affected. Southbrook which is a private residence seems from the outside to be unchanged.
David
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Hi, "behind the frogs"
Thanks again for this very specific information, which has been so helpful all along.. I have been trying to find an opportunity to visit England, Wokingham and Brook House. I wanted to also personally thank Jim for the booklet he wrote about the history of All Saints Church that included family details about the stained glass windows etc.
So I gather that part of the house is in its original condition. Do you know who lives there at present? Is it also behind a high fence?
thanks.
PS who are the over 5,000 people looking at these pages? I would have thought that bloggers were only interested in their own relatives.
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Hi Emmeline,
I am one of the five thousand who look at these messages,as I originaly come from Wokingham and my Family,my grandparents are buried in All Saints Church.
Joyce
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It is difficult to be sure that Southbrook is in its original state as it is behind a high wall. It is shown with its gates open on:
http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/
as I said before. It is the last picture to come up if you search for Finchampstead. The full description indicates that it had some changes in the 20th century although the porch referred to may be on North Brook which is off to the left of the picture.
I don't know who lives there but I am fairly sure the Warr family used to live at their original clinic in Crowthorne
There is a photograph of the North Brook clinic at:
http://www.warr-clinic.co.uk/
David
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The in-side of the North part of the house was reovated in about 1982 when mr and Mrs Warr Brought the house ..when they brought it ,it was empty and had no stairs to the upper area of the house.
Mr and Mrs Warr lived behind The Rose Pub in Wokingham town centre never in Crowthorne
The photos that you can find of the Warr Clinic have ONLY added the porch on the outside of the building ...when brought in 1982 it was that odd shape .
really Sorry but will not go into any more details on an open forum but if you pm me I will give you more details of the inside .......BUT knowing the inside does not solve many problems as its very odd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hi Joyce,
I see now how you made that connection, I am not that experienced at this.
David, I do now remember that "Images of England" photo. In the Warr clinic photo you can see that the brick is painted on one side of the house and seems to meet the original red brick, is that correct?
Shillen, I was interested in your comments how would I pm you?
Emmarine
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Almost correct. Yes the fronts of the two houses are joined at the front, semidetached doesn't seem the right description. They are both brick but as I described earlier the clinic house is built with more modern slightly larger bricks than Southbrook. You can only see the front (road side) of Southbrook in the "Images" photo. The front of North Brook is about the same size.
Front is a bit confusing because both entrances are at the side as seen from the road.
David
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Chris,
Ref. your posting of the 27th. Jan. 2006 I note with interest that you are a descendant of James Twycross, Esq., of The Brook, Wokingham, Berks. Do you have any knowledge of his daughter Georgina who married in the parish church, Wokingham in June 1868?
Sheila
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Reply to message posted on Tuesday 03 April 07 by JCI.
I was more than interested in your posted message in particular that you have a copy of the will for John Twycross (1747-1840) he was my gt.gt.gt.grandfather father of your gt.x 4 grandmother Ann Twycross nee Burchatt (b.c.1777 d.1840).
I have the full Twycross family tree.
MKR
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Hi JCI
I was more than interested in your message posted Tuesday 03 April 07 in particular the will of John Twycross (1747-1840) he was my gt.gt.gt.grandfather.
I have the full Twycross family tree dating back to 1582.
Regards,
MKR.
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Hi MKR,
A warm welcome to rootschat.
If you type on the search button at the top of the home page for rootschat and type in Twycross you can find all the posts.
Just type on the reply button to post a reply to that specific post.
If you wish to send a personal message to anyone just type on their username.
Normally you have to post 3 times before you can send a PM but I know sometimes it can be done on 2.
kind regards,Billy.
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I was interested to read MKR's post. I obtained the will from London Metropolitan Archives. Are you within reach of there? They hold copies of the wills for Godalming, I am not sure whether or not copies are available elsewhere. Please let me know if you have any problems.
I received a lot of interesting information a couple of years ago, including a Twycross tree (which includes our John Twycross) going back to a similar date to your own, from someone called Christopher. You may already know this person. If you are interested, let me know and I can ask him whether or not he is interested in sharing trees at this time.
Which child of John Twycross are you descended from? I would be very interested to hear any information that you may have about John and the wider family.
Thanks!
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Hi JCI
Thanks for the message. My grandfather Charles Twycross (1863-1933) who married Alice Ann Liggins (1869-1940) formed a relationship with my grandmother Florence Mary Lowe (1893-1940) when they both worked at the Woolwich Arsenal in 1817. As a consiquence my mother Marion was born in that year.
Charles moved to Birmingham soon after the birth and continued to live with them up untill his death in 1933. They never married due to the fact that he never divorced his wife Alice.
Yes I have been in contact with I assume the same Christopher his surname is F......E who has shared with me valuable information.
I will contact the London Metro. Archives hopefully to obtain a copy of John's will.
At some future date would it be possible to make direct contact so that we can share more delicate infomation ie: direct living members of the family.
Regards,
MKR
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Thanks for your message. It's interesting to hear of another branch of the family. Could you remind me how Charles links in with John Twycross? Do you have any further information about John or others in Godalming?
I have a copy of John's death certificate, which just states that he died of 'old age'.
You are welcome to send a 'personal message' to me through this site if you wish to share further information.
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I am interested in John Twycross (1829-1889), businessman and art collector in Melbourne, Australia, who was born in Wokingham, son of James Twycross and Mary Howell.
I am trying to establish whether there was a connection between his family and that of William David Twycross (1808 - 1861), surgeon of Eynsham, Oxfordshire, who was born in Watford, Hertfordshire. W D Twycross's widow Elizabeth and her children emigrated to Australia in about 1863 - her brother had some dealing with John Twycross and I would like to know if there's any family connection.
Can anyone help?
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