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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: bykerlads on Sunday 27 September 09 18:21 BST (UK)
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We would welcome contacts with anyone whose relatives served inthe 2nd Tyneside Scottish ( Northumbrian Fusilliers)- "ours" was Joseph West of Byker, one of the few who survived the Somme in 1916.
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Bykerlads, A wee snippet that may help you... The book " Tyneside Scottish" by John Sheen is accessible in Newcastle City Library, Tyne and wear Archives.
The books lists, usually by home address, all those who joined up into "2nd Tyneside Scottish" ( which was 21st Battalion of the Northumberland Fusiliers)
Michael
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:) My Grandad was in the Tyneside Scottish Northumberland Fusiliers in WW1 and was wounded at the Somme but unfortunately we don't know which battalion. I've asked my Dad but he doesnt know either :(. He survived ww1 and died in 1954.
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There were four battalions of Tyneside Scottish raised in WW1.
1st TS was the 20th battalion of the Northumberland Fusiliers.
2TS= 21st B of NF, 3 TS= 22nd NF and 4th TS =23rd B of NF.
The book I mentioned above names (just all )the men who enlisted in the four battalions of Tyneside Scottish.
( Similarly there were four battalions of Tyneside Irish within the Northumberland Fusiliers)
Michael
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Thanks- I have a copy of the (excellent) book- I contacted the author- it seems that the lists of men's names are incomplete and that he is keen to add confirmed names of soldiers to the lists. We know that our man was definitely in the 2nd Tyneside Scottish for the sad reason that it appears as his job on the death cert. of his child early in 1915
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My G.G. Uncle served in the 3rd Bt of the Tyneside Scottish, unfortunately he was killed 01/07/1916. His name does appear in 'The Tyneside Scottish' book ( Edward Hennessey).
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You may be aware that there is a special memorial to those men of the Tyneside Scottish and Irish battallions who died in the Battle of the Somme. It is easy to find just at the side of the road at La Boisselle nr. Albert. It is a beautiful testimony to those who fell that day - (google to get a photo-)and is exactly situated on the spot where the Northumbrians sustained such huge losses- well worth a visit and not far from the Thiepval Memorial.
Does anyone know how the funds were raised for the memorial and who organised the project?
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Not sure who raised the cash or organised the project but I believe it is written on the back of the memorial that the land it was built on was donated by the community to honour the men who died there.
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The inscription on the memorial reads
'In front of this monument on the 1st of July 1916 the Tyneside Scottish and the Tyneside Irish Brigades attacked the enemy. For many hours the fortunes of arms fluctuated but ere night had fallen the two Tyneside Brigades with the aid of other units of the 34th Division attained their objective.
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www.tyneside-scottish.co.uk (http://www.tyneside-scottish.co.uk)
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Thanks for contributions- v. usefull.
Does anyone know to which regiments the few surviving Tyneside Scottish soldiers were transfered after the battallion was disbanded in ?1916. This info. would help us identify which Medal Card record belongs to "our" Joseph West.
Are the Service Records for the Tyneside Scottish still extant at Kew? I know that many records were burnt in WW2 but am unsure if this applies to the T/S's.
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Bykerlads,
A bit like FreeBMD, Ancestry has been progressively putting the service records of WW1 soldiers ( 1914-1920) on line. I think the operation is almost complete.
Last year I spent three days in Kew sifting through the records of Tyneside Irish battalions of NFs. My targets were eight soldiers. Not one record of those eight survived the WW2 bombs. ( I was able to read the "War Diaries" of particular battalions, but I rarely came across a name of a non-commissioned soldier)
Michael Dixon
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There were only three Joseph Wests that served in the Northumberland Fusiliers, one a sergeant in the first TS battalion (20NF), one served 8th battalion, the other a later reinforcement with a service number 316310, later of the West Kents.
Its very much the luck of the draw when it comes to the burnt records, they weren't saved byregiment least of ll battaion. In my experience, few TS records survive and most of those are from the addition of the pension records.
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Thank you, Michael and Tynesider- every bit of info helps.
I'm sure most people share my view that we should, with hindsight, have asked our grandads a lot more about "what they did in the war"- they were probably reluctant to say much about their dire experiences. Joseph used to say that he had survived simply because he had managed to get the post of batman to a general and stayed mainly behind the lines ( coincidentally this what another of our grandads also used to say, so I suspect it was a kindly way of deflecting our childish interest in matters unsuitable for our ears!)
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I had a relative in the Tyneside Scottish.
L/CPL James Cowie B Company 20th Battalion Northumberland Fusliers.
I have the letter from the war office dated 5th March 1917 informing his mother of his presumed death.
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Thanks for the post- especially poignant today when we are thinking of all those ( Tynsiders and others ) who did not return from the service of their country.
As a point of interest, where did your man live ? - ours lived in Byker. Was he of Scotts origin? Our Joseph was Newcastle/Irish but his wife's family were strongly Scottish.
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He lived in Pegswood near Morpeth.
He was killed on the first day of the assault on 01.07.16 aged 20, his mother got the letter in March 1917.
His grave is at Thiepval with so many others of the regiment.
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I have mentioned in my previous posts the special memorial to the Tynsiders, at La Boisselle, nr. Thiepval- if you have not been there I do recommend a visit- it is easy to find and the Thiepval memorial is of course stunning beyond words. The lads were just mown down on the first day of the Battle of the Somme- the losses were huge-it was a miracle that our Joseph survived at all.
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Hi
I'm not up on military matters, so apologies if this is not relevant, but my great-uncle was Frank Harper Webster, 46109, Private in Northumberland Fusiliers. Killed in action 5/6/17
Not a Tyneside man. Born and bred in Huddersfield in Yorkshire.
Jacky
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It's interesting that your man came from Huddersfield- the very large majority of local men joined the Duke of Wellington's West Riding Regiment, as did my grandfathers who came from Huddersfield / Holme Valley- most unusual for a Hudds lad to serve in any other regiment, I gather. Did he have links with the North east?
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I'm not aware of any link to the North East at all. Very strange! Having said that, another soldier linked to my family was born and lived near Sheffield but joined the Cameron Highlanders!!
Jacky
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Thanks for contributions- v. usefull.
Does anyone know to which regiments the few surviving Tyneside Scottish soldiers were transfered after the battallion was disbanded in ?1916. This info. would help us identify which Medal Card record belongs to "our" Joseph West.
Are the Service Records for the Tyneside Scottish still extant at Kew? I know that many records were burnt in WW2 but am unsure if this applies to the T/S's.
This may be a late reply, but there maybe some info you're looking for on here
http://www.warpath.orbat.com/regts/nor_fus.htm
I think this is taken from the information held at the Northumberland Fusiliers Museum at Alnwick Castle
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Thanks, JoHunter- have noted the info- it will add to the picture of our Joseph's war service.
PS- if anyone is visting the records' office at Kew, please let me know- just in case you have time to have a look for Joe's Service Records.
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I had a relative in the Tyneside Scottish.
L/CPL James Cowie B Company 20th Battalion Northumberland Fusliers.
Bobfog
You probably know this already but he is commemorated on the war memorial in Bothal Village. So too is my great uncle. I have transcribed this war memorial and the entries can be found here:
http://www.resthepast.co.uk/warmemorials/bothal.html
Hope this is of interest.
Mike Shingleton
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Hi Jo - i actually want to ask a question about the Sheen/Stewart book about the Tyneside Scottish but I see that topic is locked - any particular reason?
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Hi Jo - i actually want to ask a question about the Sheen/Stewart book about the Tyneside Scottish but I see that topic is locked - any particular reason?
I've no idea why that thread would be locked, perhaps the board moderator could help?
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Hi Jo
I'll report it to the moderator.
Meanwhile, if you're up for it, I'd be really grateful for your help with p96 of the Sheen/Stewart book (I've seen it reffed on another website), where they are talking about the incredible idea that effectively the Germans knew the Tynesiders were coming because they had overheard them talking on the telephone, and not to worry as they had artillery to help them.
Is there a footnote explaining where they got this stuff from? Some German book perhaps?
be very grateful
Jonathan
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Hi Jo
I'll report it to the moderator.
Meanwhile, if you're up for it, I'd be really grateful for your help with p96 of the Sheen/Stewart book (I've seen it reffed on another website), where they are talking about the incredible idea that effectively the Germans knew the Tynesiders were coming because they had overheard them talking on the telephone, and not to worry as they had artillery to help them.
Is there a footnote explaining where they got this stuff from? Some German book perhaps?
be very grateful
Jonathan
I don't have my copy of the book at home with me at the minute, I've lent it out to a family member, but if I get it back soon I'll certainly look for you.
Joan
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Hi Jo
When you have the book that'd be marvellous
Moderator said about the topic being locked;
The reporter has made the following comment: Hi there the poster has asked me to tell you that when i tried to access her post at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=403732.msg2725157#msg2725157 it was blocked, and she doesn't know why many thanks Jonathan
The post is locked but you should still be able to send a Private Message (PM)
Regards
Sarah :)
So there you go
all the best
jonathan