RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: judge99 on Saturday 26 September 09 20:42 BST (UK)
-
I thought that the 1911 census would be the answer my prayers but alas, I still can't find my GGrandfather Matthew O'Brien who was married to Mary Daly. Matthew who is shown as a constable / farmer on his daughters Annie Marie O'Brien's to John Larrigy marriage certificate in 1910 in Dublin. I have checked the DMP records where there is only one Mathew O'Brien listed who seemed to fit the bill as he was from Co.Meath and Annie Marie is shown in the census as being born in Co.Meath 1882. Anne Marie had a brother William shown as being born in Dublin in 1889 according to the 1911 census which would make sense if Matthew had moved to Dublin to be come a member of the DMP, but I have had contact with this Mathew's GGrandson who says that his Mathew married twice as I believe mine did, but his was not to a Mary Daly. I have checked the RIC records whilst in Dublin last week where 3 Matthew O'Brien's are listed but they do not fit in at all. Some of the family lived at 20 Leeson Park Avenue in 1910/1911. It may seem odd but I can not find Annie Marie birth record, I can not find Matthew's marriage to Mary Daly in the records,I can not find the most important one...my Grandmother in the records,she was Teresa O'Brien. Teresa was the youngest of Matthews children. She is shown on her husbands (Daniel Bushe)RIC records as being born in Kings Co. in 1894. She does not seem to be on the all ireland census, I do have her death certificate at aged 34............any advice or help would be much appreciated as on many trips to Dublin from UK have been many times over the 5 years and I can't break down the brick wall.
-
Have you tried searching 1911 census with Brien instead of O'Brien?
-
Thank you for reply....I have tried Brien and also OBrien but to no avail
-
not sure if this is one of the records you already looked at ..
this Matthew is a DMP pensioner is living in Dublin,born in Co. Meath - but he is only married to his wife 7 years. He is a little bit older than her, so it could be his second marriage..
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Amiens_St_/22339/
Shane
-
Hi Shane
Thank you for that Matthew but unfortunately that's the Matthew I mentioned as fitting the bill but his family say that his first wife was not Mary Daly.............perhaps he married 3 times or am I just getting too desperate.
-
what residence/address is listed for Annie Marie O'Brien on her 1910 marriage cert ?
Shane
-
She was living with her Auntie Bridget O'Brien and Brother William at 20 Leeson Park Avenue Dublin but on the 1911 census she is now Annie Marie Larrigy living in No 2 Thomastown Demesn,Drumcullen,Kings County
Phil
-
are you sure that Annie Marie's father (Matthew) was still alive in 1911 ?
Shane
-
On the marriage of both Annie Marie and Teresa it does not show him as deceased which it generally does but on the church marriage certificate of Teresa (1916 marriage) it shows Mary as deceased,but perhaps that implied both were deceased never thought about that before......
Phil
-
See also new topic-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=427505.0
-
I have alot of info on descendents of Mat O'Brien and Mary Daly - my great great grandparents, it seems to tally with your info in some ways, but also seems to contradict...
they had a son called Mat O'Brien born in Meath in 1875, maybe this is where the lines cross??
my info is as follows:
from familysearch we have following children born to Mat O'Brien and Mary Daly
Philip – Bailieborough, Cavan – 13 Feb 1867.
Patrick – Bailieborough, Cavan – 13 Mar 1868.
Thomas – Ratoath, Meath –26 Feb 1872.
Mathew – Ratoath- 18 Apr 1875.
James – Fairyhouse – 14 Nov 1878.
Maria – Fairyhouse – 17 Jan 1881.
The O'Briens moved to Killeigh sometime before 1901 census. in 1901 census, Mary is a widow living with children Anne, Thomas, John & James http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/King_s_Co_/Killeigh/Ballinvalley/1469401/
Another son, Patrick lives nearby
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/King_s_Co_/Killeigh/Gorteen/1469470/
Patrick's marriage certificate in 1893 confirms that his parents are Mat O'Brien and Mary Daly and the family were living in Killeigh at this time.
Mary's death in 1911 shows the informant was Teresa O'Brien, daughter
-
Hi
There seems to be a main connection. Teresa O'Brien married Daniel Bushe (RIC) in Dublin in 1916. she had a witness sister Mary K O'Brien.On the marriage certificate Matthew and Mary are shown as deceased. There was another sister Annie Marie O'Brien who married John Joseph Larrigy in Dublin in 1910. On Annie (born 1882) marriage certificate it says that her parents were Matthew and Mary O'Brien of Killeigh and that Matthew was a Farmer but on Teresa's marriage Certificate of 1916 Matthew was listed as Policeman but I believe this was a mistake and it was Daniel that was the Policeman.Annie before she married was living at 20 Leeson Park Avenue with Bridget O'Brien ( Auntie ) and brother William(aged 22) as shown on 1911 census. I have a a birth certificate for a Teresa born 15 June 1885 to a Mathew and Mary Brien nee Daly in Killeigh and a Baptismal certificate for Teresa born 15 June 1885 to Mathew and Mary Daly...so one of the same. The problem is according to Teresa death certificate she would have been born in 1894 and died in 1928 aged 34 years. I have had problems with the O'Brien side with different dates ...different counties of birth on census. Teresa is shown as being born in Kings County on her husbands police records where as Annie and Mary say they were born in County Meath on census living in Auburn Street Dublin.Looking forward to hearing from you when you have worked your way through this.
Phil
-
Phil
Good to hear from you.
I agree that there must be a mistake on Teresa marriage certificate and that its her husband, not her father that is the policeman.
As regards dates not tallying, this happens alot with the Irish census. And also with a family of 10 kids (Philip, Patrick, Thomas, Matthew, James, Maria, Teresa, Mary K, Annie Marie and William) moving from Bailieborough in Cavan to Ratoath and then Fairyhouse in Meath and then finally to Killeigh in Offaly, its not surprising that there is confusion over dates of birth!
Would you mind listing the dates and place of birth for Teresa, Mary K, Annie Marie and William
If you are wondering who Matthew might have favored in his will you will see that he left £82 to Annie Larrigy when he died in 1894
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014917/005014917_00257.pdf
Regards
Orla
-
Hi Orla (and Phil)
OK, I am up to speed ( a bit HA) now !
I see that Matthew was a herd - which of course explains the moving around.
I note Orla that you say that Matthew 'favoured' Anne - HA HUM I'm not sure that I'd agree with that - he died in 1894 YET Anne 'got' money in 1911 - a world of a difference - sounds like there must have been a dispute in the interim.
Tara
-
Philip 1866 Cavan
Patrick 1868 Cavan
Thomas 1872 Meath
Matthew 1875 Meath
Catherine 1876 Meath
James 1878 Meath
Mary 1881 Meath
Anne
John
Teresa
Sorry just typed this for my own reference !
Tara
-
Phil
I'm trying to remember back . . .
Did we not find Matthew & Mary marrying in 1858 ?
Tara
-
Hi
I just found a Margaret baptised to the couple in 1884 in County Laois !
Tara
-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/King_s_Co_/Killeigh/Ballinvalley/558974/
Patrick in 1911
Tara
-
Hi
The marriage we came up with for Matthew Brien and Mary Daly was 13 May 1863 in Carnaross ,Co Meath which seems to be right.Just noticed that I mentioned Mary K O'Brien was a witness on Teresa marriage certificate and this must be the Mary on the list of children. I recall my mother talking about 'Big Molly' who was a Mary and my mother was little Molly.
-
Hi Tara
Just realised I should add to that growing list of names with William born 1894 but said to be in Dublin. William in 1911 census for Dublin living with his Aunty Bridget O'Brien( Matthew sister?) at 20 Leeson Park Avenue and this was the address Annie O'Brien Larrigy gave as her address on her marriage certificate.
Phil
-
Hi Phil
It seems mad us coming back to this BUT do you have something to say that Teresa's mum was Mary Daly ?
NO WAY was Mary Daly Brien the Mum of anyone in 1894 !!!!!!!!!!!!
First she was too old - second Matthew died in 1894 !
This is a long shot BUT could Teresa actually have been right about her age AND that in fact her father was Matthew Junior NOT Matthew Senior !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tara
-
The Bridget on the 1911 Census could have in fact been the DAUGHTER of Matthew Brien and then that would make William, Bridget's nephew !
Tara
-
IF Teresa was the daughter of Mary Daly Brien AND registered the death then surely she was in Ofaly and not Dublin - could this be her in 1901 ?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/King_s_Co_/Tullamore_Urban/Church_Street/1471964/
Tara
-
Phil
Did you see this ?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRWT-W5H
Tara
-
Hi Tara
I had not seen that Elizabeth one...may well be another. On the subject of Teresa ....but she is the daughter of Matthew and Mary according to church records and yes big age difference. The problem has always been whether the ages stated on death certificate are so far out but Mary would have been 46 when she had Teresa and I have found others in the family tree having children around that age....It doesn't happen so much today but then it seemed more regular then.Teresa would have been 17/18 when her mother died and when she registered the death.
Phil
-
Hi Phil
No you mentioned a son called William born in 1894 !
Tara
-
Hi Tara
Bridget in the 1911 census was 70 that is more likely to be Matthew sister. The Teresa in Tullamore is 19 in 1901 which make more sense as the church record for Teresa shows date of birth as 17 June 1885
-
Hi Tara
William would have been born in 1889...22 years old Motor Mechanic (and that would be rare) in 1911 census
-
Matthew Brien and Mary Daly Timeline
---------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Brien born abt 1834 (presumed Meath)
Mary Daly born abt 1845 Meath, Ireland
- Marry 1863 Carnaross (covers Meath / Cavan)
Elizabeth 1864 Galway, Ireland
Philip 1866 Cavan, Ireland
Patrick 1868 Cavan, Ireland
Thomas 1872 Meath, Ireland
Anne 1870 Meath, Ireland
Matthew 1875 Meath, Ireland
John 1875 Meath, Ireland
Catherine 1876 Meath, Ireland
James 1878 Meath, Ireland
Mary 1881 Meath, Ireland
Margaret 1885 Offaly, Ireland
~~~~~~~~----
1. Elizabeth - There is a question as to whether Elizabeth is the same family
2. Philip - Orla has Philip accounted for in Killeigh
3. Patrick - Orla has Patrick accounted for in Killeigh
4. Thomas - Orla has Thomas accounted for in America
5. Anne - Phil / Orla have Anne accounted for marrying Mr. Larrigy BUT I think this needs to be reviewed as once again there is a big discrepency in the ages from 1901 to 1911
6. Matthew - I have seen a death which would add up to this chap.
7. John - Orla is following up John possibly moving to Kildare
8. Catherine - I'm not sure if you guys have followed her up ?
9. James - Orla is following up James possibly moving to Kildare
10. Mary - Has she been followed up after 1901 Census ?
11. Margaret - She is a recent find - Can we presume that she passed away in childhood OR COULD this be Teresa / OR Could Margaret & Teresa have been twins ???????????????????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
So,
1894 Matthew Brien passes away
and then in 1911 Mary Daly Brien passes away.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Still a few bits to be sorted out and researched !
Tara