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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: alijet on Wednesday 23 September 09 11:55 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
Struggling with this branch of my family tree. Can anyone help me please?
Maria Baron my gg grandmother
Married 31 August 1851 at All Saints Church in the Parish of Manchester to John Hakesley. Her marriage cert does not state her age.
Father John Baron
Son Henry Hakesley B 1861 Clayton, Manchester.
I have looked at records. Did find a Maria Baron born 1827 father John on 1841 census. Thought this could possibly be her. But when I looked at DR 1841-1851 6 John Barons died in that time frame, so am not positive now.
Also found a Maria Baron working as a 'milliner' in house of 'milliner's' in 1851 with her child states she was widowed. Again, this could be her. Checked registers she had not been married so widowhood must of been a fib. Not sure either about the daughter/mother relationship. Did Madam's call their girls daughters?
This is all I have folks. Any help greatly appreciated. A bit of a challenge!!
Regards Alison
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not sure if it is me getting confused, you say you have the marriage certificate of Maria 1851?
yet have found her on the 1851 census as widow?
just to clear up things before people are searching?
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Yes census done at start of year. Can't remember month off top of my head. She was married Aug 1851
Regards
Alison
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Do you have Maria on the 1861 census? That would give a date and place of birth to help search.
I can't see a birth reg for Henry HAKESLEY in Manchester in 1861, although I see him on census with that birthplace in 1891/1901. (There's a Henry HAKESLEY born in Birmingham in 1861 on Free BMD.)
According to the marriage cert, what are the occupations of John BARON and John HAKESLEY? Are the witnesses family members?
Added: Forget the Birmingham birth - it's on IGI with parents William and Hannah.
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yes the census was taken in June, when you say she is a widow
but you have her marrying in the August?? are you saying it was a 2nd marriage?
so have you other names, ie Baron was not her birth name? but father is John Baron
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Hi,
Henry Hakesley says on 1891 & 1901 census that he is born in Clayton, Manchester (I have to say he was not supposedly a very nice man and so this could be a lie). He is not on any earlier census.
I was just going to add a new topic re Henry asking if it is likely his birth would not be recorded. I had seen the BR for Henry for Warks.
Neither Maria or John appear on the 1861 census. John dies 1867. Maria Hakesley doesn't show on any later census.
John Baron (Maria's father) was a wool comber. William Hakesley (Johns father) as a Brick Setter. I did wonder if John and William are journeymen and this is why I am having difficulty locating them.
Maria shows as a milliner in a house of milliners. I believe this could be a house of ill repute. Apparently, this was a nicer occupation to show for them than prostitute!!. Yes it says she is widowed, but there is no earlier record of a marriage, but there is a son. The marriage cert states both Maria and John as widow and widower. Again though no record of John having been previously married either. I think there may be a cover up for Maria if she was in deed a milliner.
Regards
Alison
Regards
Alison
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I've got a nice family haven't I!!!
The other branch of my family are far more respectable, but not as interesting
Ali
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This is the best I can see for Henry HAKESLEY in 1871, but the mother's name is wrong! (Unless Maria died, and John remarried?)
RG10/4058; Folio 102; Page 13
1 Wardle St, Newton, Manchester
Ellen EXLEY - Head - Widow - 46 - Charwoman - Manchester
Amelia EXLEY - Dau - 12 - Scholar - Clayton
Henry EXLEY - Son - 10 - Scholar - Clayton
Jenet EXLEY - Dau - 8 - Scholar - Clayton
Wallace EXLEY - Son - 6 - Sheffield
Where did you find the name of Henry's mother if you don't have a birth cert for him?
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Marias name is on her marriage cert
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Sorry dashed last message off too quickly.
I will check this out, could be a spelling mistake I suppose. But then why does Johns marriage show as Maria.
Ali
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What I meant is that you know that a John HAKESLEY married Maria BARON in 1851, but we can't be sure she's Henry's mother without a birth cert/baptism for Henry, or a census entry showing the family together. There's always the possibility that John married twice, or even that this is the "wrong" John! ( In addition, illegitimate children sometimes invented a father on their marriage cert for the sake of appearances.)
HAKESLEY isn't a very common name, but unfortunately it seems to get badly mis-spelled, which doesn't help. ::)
I can see births on Free BMD for Amelia and Janet HEKESLEY which match Ellen's daughters in 1871, but I haven't spotted either of the boys yet.
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Hello
In the first quarter of 1846, Ellen Bradbury married John Hexley at Manchester Cathedral.
The 1871 census entry, shown above, refers to this lady.
1851 - Ashton Under Lyne HO107/2234 Folio 152 Page 24
1861 - Ashton Under Lyne RG9/2988 Folio 19 Page 31
posteria
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This may be the same family in 1861, but whoever filled in the householder's form must have had very bad handwriting - it definitely says HATTERSLEY on the image.
1861
RG9/2987; Folio 19; Page 30
Coalpit Houses, Clayton
John HATTERSLEY - Head - 37 - Labourer in Chemical Works - Whaley, Derbyshire
Ellen HATTERSLEY - Wife - 36 - Manchester
William HATTERSLEY - Son - 14 - Labourer in Iron Works - Clayton
Robert HATTERSLEY - Son - 12 - Labourer in Iron Works - Clayton
James HATTERSLEY - Son - 5 - School - Clayton
Eliza HATTERSLEY - Dau - 10 - Clayton
Amelia HATTERSLEY - Dau - 2 - Clayton
IGI has extracted christening records for Eliza and Amelia HAKESLEY, daughters of John HAKESLEY and Ellen, christened 25 Dec 1861 at Clayton.
Ellen is listed as EXLEY again in 1881, and she is living with her son Wallice HAKESLEY in 1891.
Post crossed with Posteria!
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Hi again all,
Thanks Manchester Rambler for re - explaining, sometimes I can be quite thick!!.
Found an Ellen Exley married to John in 1851 census, no children though, but suppose eldest child could have been visiting someone else.
Newton where they are living on the 1871 census is I guess Newton Heath, which is next to Clayton, so they are obviously big travelers!!
I had found different variations of Hakesley, so yes what you say is true. I have found a Henry Exley BR at Chorlton, Lancs. Tried Googling it but only comes up with Chorlton, Cheshire. Does anyone know if there is or was a Chorlton in Manchester? If we between us all can determine Henry's birth then I will order his birth cer
Thank you all
Alison
p.s. New message just come in as I was sending this. Shall review and come back to you all
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This looks like Henry's birth registration - it's hard to read, and not fully transcribed on Free BMD.
Births Jun 1861
HEKESLEY Henry Albert
Ashton 8d 435
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Chorlton-on-Medlock and Chorlton-cum-Hardy are both parts of Manchester.
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Right here goes again.
Just noticed on 1871 census details that John comes from Whaley Bridge and my father says this is where the family originally came from. So hooray!!!
Thanks for Henry Albert Hekesley BR, this is obviously a possibility, especially as Henry has a son Henry Albert.
Just so I can take the Chorlton registration out of the occasion, now that I know there are 2 Chorlton's in Manchester, does anyone know if Clayton births would be registered under either of these Chorlton's. I have to admit leaning toward the Henry Albert Hekesley, but as my family tree as completely changed in the last few hours more than happy for you to keep guiding me
Thanks
Ali
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Clayton is in Ashton under Lyne registration district.
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/ashton%20under%20lyne.html
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Hi Posteria,
I've just been looking for John MR on Ancestry and it isn't showing. Can you advise me where I can pull the ifo on the net. Shouldn't it be showing on the MR?
Thanks
Alison
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Thanks Manchester Rambler
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Hello Alison
The registration for the marriage of John Hexley and Ellen Bradbury appears on http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ in the first quarter of 1846 at Manchester (this database is also available on Ancestry). The GRO reference is 20 479
It is also referred to on http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp which gives the date as 2nd February 1846
This is the appropriate 1851 census entry showing John and Ellen with some children ... Ashton Under Lyne HO107/2234 Folio 152 Page 24
posteria
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Thanks Posteria. Been trying Ancestry no luck. Just been in to the Family Search and it came up straight away. Going to try checking the IGI to see if any other goodies turn up
Regards
Ali
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Hi all,
A big THANK YOU to everyone for their help yesterday. Really appreciated. Lots to work on now.
Regards
Alison
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This is the best I can see for Henry HAKESLEY in 1871, but the mother's name is wrong! (Unless Maria died, and John remarried?)
RG10/4058; Folio 102; Page 13
1 Wardle St, Newton, Manchester
Ellen EXLEY - Head - Widow - 46 - Charwoman - Manchester
Amelia EXLEY - Dau - 12 - Scholar - Clayton
Henry EXLEY - Son - 10 - Scholar - Clayton
Jenet EXLEY - Dau - 8 - Scholar - Clayton
Wallace EXLEY - Son - 6 - Sheffield
Where did you find the name of Henry's mother if you don't have a birth cert for him?
I have a feeling these are two different families. I'm researching the names above but can't link with Maria.......