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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Gwenn02 on Tuesday 22 September 09 07:32 BST (UK)
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I find (I think that the right one)
the index entry for 2 rellies (brother and sister)
I would like to have more details
if anyone can do a look up at Victoria archives it will be great
NAME : KEATING Maria
AGE :23
DATE : OCT 1855
SHIP: BALNAGUITH
reference : Book 12 page 153
and this one
NAME : KEATING John
AGE : 19
DATE : OCT 1855
SHIP / BALNAGUITH
REFERENCE : book 12, page 156
I believe they were going to work at some uncle place in Melbourne ... need to confirm that
Thanks :)
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Hi Gwenn02
I can check this for you but it won't be until after the AFL grand Final.
Cheers
Genni
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Thanks :) :D... NO hurry !!!!
ps- what is the AFL grand final ???
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Hi Gwenn02
Australian Football League - the world stops for footy this week in Australia - well nearly! SPECIALLY if your team is in the finals!
Wiggy Go Cats! (Geelong team name)
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Hi Gwenn02
As Wiggy says the Footy is on at "The G" in Melbourne this weekend and I'll be in the Stands cheering my team.
Should be able to get to the State Library the weekend after, of course, I could still be recovering from the outcome of the GF.
Genni
Go Saints (St Kilda Football Club)
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This is an old request. Not sure if you got what you wanted. I came upon it, as was looking for information on this voyage of the Balnaguith.
Here is some information
As Maria and John were assisted migrants, I would back the WOOD listing, as this would most likely be WOODEND, which is about 50 kilometres or more west of Melbourne. The Byrne listing, at Collingwood, was for what became an industrial suburb about 3 kms east of Melbourne.
KEATING","Maria","M","ALWARD","Nathaniel","","F","","",1855,"2524","","",""
"KEATING","Maria","M","EVANS","John","","F","","",1862,"296","","",""
"KEATING","Maria","M","BYRNE","Patrick Hugh","","F","","",1863,"3768","","","
Births
Alward : no births listed
"EVANS","John William","B","John","Maria KEATING","","","WOOD","",1863,"5397","","",""
"EVANS","James Henry","B","John","Maria KEATING","","","WOOD","",1865,"25789"
"BYRNE","James","B","Patrick Hugh","Maria KEATING","","","MELB","",1864,"16436","","",""
"BYRNE","Edward Keating","B","Patrick Hugh","Maria KEATING","","","MELB","",1866,"9479","","",""
"BYRNE","Mary Louisa","B","Patrick Hugh","Maria KEATING","","","CWOOD","",1868,"8318","","",""
"BYRNE","John Thomas","B","Patrick Hugh","Maria KEATING","","","MELB","",1869,"23763","","",""
"BYRNE","Francis Hugh","B","Patrick Hugh","Maria KEATING","","","MELB","",1871,"17584","","",""
"BYRNE","James Patrick","B","Patrick Hugh","Maria KEATING","","","COLLINGWOOD","",1874,"8008
Ron
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Thanks a lot for this information I didn't have
:-)
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KEATING","Maria","M","ALWARD","Nathaniel","","F","","",1855,"2524","","",""
What does it means ??? Maria KEATING married with Nathaniel ALWARD ???
what the F stands for ?
1855 is the date of marriage I have for Maria and Nathaniel
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"EVANS","John William","B","John","Maria KEATING","","","WOOD","",1863,"5397","","",""
"EVANS","James Henry","B","John","Maria KEATING","","","WOOD","",1865,"25789"
The pioneer family KEATING still have links to Woodend. I won't mention anymore about them here as they are still living.
The First KEATING arrived in Woodend in 1858 at the age of 18. Not sure if they are linked to your Maria KEATING in anyway, but the name and the place stood out when I was brousing the thread.
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KEATING","Maria","M","ALWARD","Nathaniel","","F","","",1855,"2524","","",""
What does it means ??? Maria KEATING married with Nathaniel ALWARD ???
what the F stands for ?
1855 is the date of marriage I have for Maria and Nathaniel
Hi Gwen
Ron has listed for you some possible marriages of women named MARIA KEATING.
Perhaps you will know by this stage which is the correct person,
He has also given you some births to the various couples.
If you are having difficulty deciphering the listing, someone may be able to type it differently for you.
Sue
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KEATING","Maria","M","ALWARD","Nathaniel","","F","","",1855,"2524","","",""
What does it means ??? Maria KEATING married with Nathaniel ALWARD ???
what the F stands for ?
1855 is the date of marriage I have for Maria and Nathaniel
Gwen from online info it would appear that Maria died at Blue Earth, Faribault, Minnesota, USA. Is this correct?
Cando
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Perhaps of interest - the BALNAGUITH arrived Portland, Victoria [not Melbourne] and left the following month for Calcutta. A number of news items on TROVE in the Portland Guardian and Normanby General Advertiser
Cando
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Hi Gwenn02
As Wiggy says the Footy is on at "The G" in Melbourne this weekend and I'll be in the Stands cheering my team.
Should be able to get to the State Library the weekend after, of course, I could still be recovering from the outcome of the GF.
Genni
Go Saints (St Kilda Football Club)
Could you please point them in the direction of the goal posts they should be aiming for and what does it mean on the back page of the Herald Sun this morning, "SAINT HORROR"? And why is that young man holding his hands to his cheeks with mouth open?
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I lost a very long reply. The "f" refers to Maria's sex. The Balnaguith did arrive at Portland, but probably came on to Melbourne. Nathaniel Alward does not appear on entry lists. There was an Ann Alward, who arrived in Victoria as an assisted migrant in 1841. Nathaniel may have been a mariner on the Balnaguih. This might explain the 1855 marriage.
There were no children recorded for this marriage in Victoria.
ALWARD EDWD arrived Melbourne on the ship YOUNG AMERICA in JUL 1860 age 20
John Keating's death does not appear to be in Victorian records??
Ron
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Gosh lots of assumptions there.
There is no report of the BALNAGUITH arriving in Melbourne in 1855. The passenger lists at PROV are for immigrants arriving Victoria but not necessarily Melbourne. Perhaps search for yourself on TROVE for shipping arrivals.
The Argus 27 Aug 1855
CESSATION OF GOVERNMENT EMIGRATION TO
VICTORIA.—The Balnaguith, appointed to sail from Plymouth for Portland Bay on the 2nd July, will be the last ship dispatched by the Emigration Commissioners to the colony of Victoria, as the funds in their hands will by that time be exhausted ; unless, indeed, any further remittances may arrive from thence.
Arrived 28 Oct 1855 Portland Bay – a number of advertisements for sale of cargo from the BALNAGUITH.
Portland Guardian and Normanby General Advertiser
Shipping Intelligence 19 Nov 1855
SAILED. November.17th.-Balnaguith, for Calcutta in ballast
According to online information this could not possibly be the Maria KEATING on the BALNAGUITH who married Nathaniel ALWARD as she married in Melbourne on 18 Aug 1855 and left with her husband to live in his country of birth where she died Blue Earth, Faribault, Minnesota, USA. The BALNAGUITH left Plymouth on 22 July 1855 and arrived Portland Bay 28 Oct 1855.
Gwen I suggest if you haven’t received the information from the Assisted Immigrants records at PROV [also a many libraries and genealogy societies etc] that you make an effort to see if there is any further information.
What other information do you have on your John KEATING and his sister Maria KEATING eg parents' names and place of birth. Another resource simply lists their nationality on the passenger list as Scottish and Irish.
Cando
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Just in case Nathaniel is your person of interest.
Nathaniel in Melbourne by Oct 1853.
The Argus 15 Oct 1853
Criminal Sessions
The monthly criminal sessions commenced at the Supreme Court…….
39. Nathaniel Alward, shooting at and wounding.
ALWARD Nathaniel.
Parliamentary papers 1854
Melbourne (Victoria)
Parliamentary papers: Police and Penal Department 1854-1863, 1886.
Comment Prisoner P 8
The Argus 10 Mar 1855
LIST OF UNCLAIMED SHIP LETTERS
11. ALWARD, Nathaniel
The Argus 3 Mar 1856
LIST OF UNCLAIMED SHIP LETTERS
137, 8 ALWARD, Nathaniel
Cando
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Cando, many of the assumptions in my earlier reply were actually conclusions. The evidence was not provided. I will accept the assumption that Nathaniel Alward being on the Balnaguith was an assumption. How could an American get to Melbourne in 1855? Via NSW, perhaps. He could also be one of the possibly thousands of migrants, who arrived having paid their own fares prior to 1852. Victoria has Assisted Migration lists for 1839 to 1871, (Index to Assisted British Immigration 1839-1871 ) and Unassisted migrants from 1852. Victoria was established as a self-governing colony in 1850. NSW has Assisted migration lists to Port Phillip (Port Phillip, 1839-51 ). However, free settlers were not recorded, or records are not available, without intensive searching of ships’ lists. Many American “49ers” arrived in NSW after Hargreaves’ supposed finds, and many people were attracted south by Victoria’s finds, after October, 1851.
I made the assumption, from the second response, that the lister knew the marriage involved a Nathaniel. ( I note he was in trouble for a shooting incident in 1854 )
Re The Balnaguith and not arriving in Melbourne. Apparently it was a possibility, according to the following research, but it specifies 1856 and 1857 only.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/shanleyhistory/migration.htm
basically advises that four ships, including Balnaguith, brought immigrants from Plymouth to Portland Vic. It also goes on to suggest that on-travelling migrants may have been transported ( 15 Kms ) to Port Fairy, where they were put aboard a coastal trader. There were 231 migrants on the Balnaguith. I know of three. The Keatings, Samuel Haslett, who left the ship to work on a property 40 or so kilometres north, near Hamilton, AND the following ......
http://eucalypt.com/Field/persons/person1262.html
About Whelan, Michael Luke
Emigration: 1855-07-14 on board Balnaguith, from Plymouth to Portland 29/10/1855. Book 12 Pg 156
Emigrated to Melbourne (Australia) from Ireland in October 1855 on a ship called Balnaguith (sponsored to work for Mr Winter of Murrindal and married Elizabeth Cox. Elizabeth was the daughter of the Cox family of Mooney Ponds who did not approve of Michael and disowned Elizabeth. Michael and Elizabeth went to live and raise their family (12-16 children) in Buchan, East Gippsland.
However, Murrundal is actually located north of Buchan, 300 kms east of Melbourne and 600 kms from Portland and these were sponsored migrants, with how much money in their pockets??
The Balnaguith was a specially built ship, launched in 1852, designed for passenger travel, However, when ships got to Australia, how many people were returning to England? They had to become merchant ships and seek trade goods. It could easily ( despite the prevailing winds, and the Balnaguith was a cutter ) have travelled to Melbourne and returned to Portland to collect trade goods at Portland ( Victoria’s earliest settlement = 1834 )
Is it logical to assume that Nathaniel Alward was a mariner? No! However, if it wasn’t for two wayward mariners, who entered Victoria, or Adelaide, in 1854 and 1855, this researcher would not be helping you. Neither of my great grandfathers exist in records. My Irish grandfather was found, because he was one of 12 mariners, who jumped ship in Adelaide, in September, 1855, and spent two months in gaol there, before marrying a 19 year old, who was on his ship. My English ggf’s entry was only found in a hospital record from 1877, although his marriage advised he was here in 1857.
Mary Keatings, the marriages:
"KEATING","Maria","M","TRAVERS","Michael","","F","","",1852,"1324","ROMAN CATHOLIC","ST FRANCIS, MELBOURNE","709"
"KEATING","Maria","M","ALWARD","Nathaniel","","F","","",1855,"2524","","",""
"KEATING","Maria","M","EVANS","John","","F","","",1862,"296","","","" 3 children born at Wood(end?)
"KEATING","Maria","M","BYRNE","Patrick Hugh","","F","","",1863,"3768","","","" ( 9 children born in Collingwood -- became a working class area, just 3 kms north east of Melbourne city.
In my first reply, I referred to the likelihood of John Evans being the marriage your lster wanted, and suggested that this was the most likely, if they had been sposored “ by an uncle”.
Your correspondent might be interested in the below request, unless it is her own listing.
http://boards.ancestry.com.au/surnames.alward/204/mb.ashx
Looking for descendants of Nathaniel Alward (1830 - 1908) and Maria Keating (1836 - 1915).They lived in Garden City and Vernon Center Minnesota. They had 9 children:
Marie Louise (1857 Australia) Bellen (1959 Australia), Anne (Libby) (1861 MN);Nathaniel (1863 MN); Sophia (1866 MN); Bertha (1868 MN); Grace (1871, MN); Mabel Constance (1871 MN) and Jessie 1879 MN).
Maria Keating was my grandfather's aunt.
May I point out that this request suggests that this Maria Keating was not the one on the Balnaguith, which you have already suggested. 1836 was John Keating’s birth date - 19 in 1855. Maria was 3 years older.
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Cando,
My apologies for such a quick second response. I wasn’t going to do any more, as I wanted to get back to my own research. However, I had to solve a problem.
Death of
EVANS Maria ( parents Keating Wm Dalymple& Anna HODGES ) aged 69 Rton 1909 12994
However, this Maria Keating may not be your lister’s target either:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dicummings/KeatingWilliamD.htm
8. Maria KEATING, baptised 9.11.1839 to Wm Dalrymple and Hannah Keating at Longford (T.1179)
She married John Evans and had a son Stanley Dalrymple EVANS.
Maria EVANS (nee Keating) died in 1909 aged 68 at Woodend
this next item may suggest another difficulty for your lister :
BYRNE Maria Keating Death ( Keating Pat Louisa MERCER ) 49 Fitz Sth 1890 ( 1908 )
This looks like the other Maria Keating ; area could be Collingwood ?? BUT age 49 is wrong, suggesting Maria would have been John’s younger, not older sister OR Age is wrong.
If your lister’s Maria Keating married Nathaniel Alward somehow, she could not have been on the Balnaguith.
She may have entered Victoria as Mary Keating.
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I am becoming confused, trying to follow this thread...
Either I have forgotten historical facts, or something is wrong somewheres....
:) 1 July 1851 is surely the date for the commencement of Victoria as a separate colony, hived off from N.S. Wales .....
Some other confusions for me ....
:) Americans, and any person coming to mainland Australia could have reached any port by ship, the ships were not restricted to all arriving at the one port. Afterall, NSW was no longer a penal colony and transportation of convicts to NSW had effectively ceased in 1840.
Ships brought passengers to various ports around the coast and of course to several ports in Tasmania too.
:) NSW State Records Office has fantastic images of passenger lists free to search ONLINE .... and they definitely include free settlers into what is now Qld and Victoria :) May I quote from NSW SRO's intro re that project ....
"This is part of a pilot project to digitise the following passenger lists: the microfilm copies of the List of Irish passengers arrived on the ship Sir Joseph Banks, Oct 1828 (NRS 5309); Persons on early migrant ships, 1828-32 (NRS 5310); Persons on early migrant ships, May 1832- Jan 1833 (NRS 5311); Women on the Red Rover and other early migrant ships, 1832 (NRS 5312); Persons on government ships, Aug 1837-40 (NRS 5313); Persons on bounty ships (Agent's Immigrant Lists), 1838-96 (NRS 5316); Persons on bounty ships arriving at Port Phillip, 1839-51 (NRS 5318); Germans on bounty ships, 1849-52 (NRS 5320); Members of the Family Colonization Loan Society, 1854-57 (NRS 5322) and Passenger lists of the Family Colonization Loan Society, 1854-55 (NRS 5323)."
Here's the link to the resource at NSW SRO
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/nrs-lists/nrs-5316
Where you don't know the ship of arrival then perhaps it is best to first look that up via the keyword option under the passenger's surname .....
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx
How could an American get to Melbourne in 1855? Via NSW, perhaps. He could also be one of the possibly thousands of migrants, who arrived having paid their own fares prior to 1852. Victoria has Assisted Migration lists for 1839 to 1871, (Index to Assisted British Immigration 1839-1871 ) and Unassisted migrants from 1852. Victoria was established as a self-governing colony in 1850.
NSW has Assisted migration lists to Port Phillip (Port Phillip, 1839-51 ). However, free settlers were not recorded, or records are not available, without intensive searching of ships’ lists.
Fingers crossed this helps :)
Adding : Oops I overlooked another link with passenger (and crew) lists .... again, it is an ongoing project, and it is of course looking for volunteers but the transcriptions are backed up with scans from NSW SRO reels :)
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/
Cheers, JM
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I would like to record my debt to all of the sites you have cited. However, you point to the greatest problem of the present state of affairs. The task is so gigantic that it is unfinished and ongoing and there is the assumption that present, completed records are complete. I can only deal with my experience, and I have come across dozens of records ( births deaths and marriages ), where records are not there and the reason I have been given is that "many records were lost" or, in the case of some Catholic records, the members of the Church " were too poor". Not sure that I believe this completely, but there is no doubt that records were lost, as Church officials travelled to Melbourne and experienced either extremely poor weather conditions or were waylaid. In some cases, people were located in such remote parts of this State, that official registration may not have been available, and religious representation may not have been regularly present.
As far as the creation of Victoria was concerned, I will let you decide which date you want to choose :
In 1850 the United Kingdom Parliament passed An Act for the better Government of Her Majesty's Australian Colonies. It allowed South Australia, Tasmania and Victoria to separate from New South Wales.
Under the new law, Victoria separated on 1 July 1851
The first Legislative Council met on 11 November 1851.
In 1854 the Council passed a bill setting up Victoria's Constitution,
The bill needed Queen Victoria's assent to become law. She assented to it on 16 July 1855. The changes took effect from 23 November 1855, the start of responsible self-government in Victoria.
http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/publications/fact-sheets/2333-fact-sheet-i1-victorias-parliamentary-history
Thanks for your concern.
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Oh, ::) Neil
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re Nathaniel Alward
Please look at 1880 American Census. Nathaniel P Alward born NY aged 49, living with wife, Maria, born Ireland 1836, living Vernon, Blue Earth, Minnesotta, with nine children. First two born Australia. Arrived Minnesotta by birth of third child in 1862. No clear reference to Victoria.
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re Nathaniel Alward
Please look at 1880 American Census. Nathaniel P Alward born NY aged 49, living with wife, Maria, born Ireland 1836, living Vernon, Blue Earth, Minnesotta, with nine children. First two born Australia. Arrived Minnesotta by birth of third child in 1862. No clear reference to Victoria.
Here's the link to that information
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZ9M-3Y9
so 1880 info has Maria L ALWARD aged 24 and Ellen ALWARD aged 21, born in Australia.
Cheers, JM
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Are we sure if Gwenn002 is actually searching for this information about Nathaniel P ALWARD and his wife Maria KEATING. If she is then the BALGANUITH passengers would be of NO interest to her at all. I mentioned this in an earlier reply.
Nathaniel [farmer] was living with his mother on the 1850 US Census and was back in the US for the 1860 census with wife Maria 24 years b. Ireland and children Louisa 4 and Ellen 2 born Australia with his mother and sister. Nathanial's occupation merchant on the 1860 census. He was a shopkeeper in Victoria in 1855.
Victorian Electoral Roll 1856
District Talbot Sub district Mount Franklin
ALWARD Nathaniel ?Sailors Creek Eligibility Miner's right.
I will post the information if Gwenn02 wants or needs it.
I suggest that we refrain from posting until Gwenn02 has a chance to respond.
From the Rootschat help index....
http://www.rootschat.com/help/help_index.php
Keep your communications to the point. Some people pay for Internet access by the hour. The longer it takes to read your messages, the more it may cost them.
Cheers
Cando