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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Montgomeryshire => Topic started by: Aussie Jen on Saturday 19 September 09 03:06 BST (UK)
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My gr gr gand father was David Lloyd born aprox 1831 Newtown, Montgmy.
He married Mary Boulter 1875 in Birmingham and dies in same in1895.
I have located him in census's and have obtainded mar. cert. naming his father as Robert Lloyd - (farmer) and that is where it all stops and I desperately need help to continue.
I have no idea of Davids mothers name.
In the 1841 census, I have found a Robert Lloyd born 1806, wife Ann 1806, and the child, Davids age fits.
How can I prove this to be the family?
I want to find David,s birth too.
Can anyone give me some advice please?
Regards Jen
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According to a tree on Ancestry Jen, Davids parents were Robert Lloyd c1815 and Mary Jones also c1815.
This David married a Mary Boulter, so should tie it in, if it's correct.
The 1881 England census has a match for this.
Skewy.
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Hi
The Ancestry tree does not cite any sources and it gives Robert and Mary as b. 1815. I'd not have much confidence in the information given there. I can't find a couple that match this pair in the Montgomeryshire records apart from a marriage in Llanfair Caerenion in 1821.
The 1841 one that Jen's found was in Llanfyllin rather than Newtown and Robert is, I think, a labourer (wrongly entered opposite Ann on the census sheet).
So far, I've not found a suitable baptism record for David in the Newtown area at that time and nothing on the 1841 that matches the details.
I'll have another look through my Montgomeryshire records tomorrow.
Have you tried tracing him back in the censuses from 1881 to 1871 to 1861 to 1851?
Gadget
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Well I think the line Jen has is David Lloyd a Tailor, living with Mary (except 1891 when read as May) and is also on 71, 81 census Birmingham.
In 1861 a Tailor called David Lloyd is a lodger in London on the census living in the parish workhouse.
I agree about the tree, but it might give a lead for research.
Skewy.
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Thanks all for your interest.
I have now received son David and mary Boulters marriage certificate and names Davids father, Roberts occupation - 'farmer'
Agreed - no sources for public tree info naming a Mary Jones as mother - so will not touch that one further.
Have also found 1841 census entry:
Name: David Lloyd
Birth: abt 1831 - Montgomeryshire, Wales
Residence: 1841 - Fachwen, Llanfihangel, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Shows father Robert - mother Ann -Could I safely asume this is the family?
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Hi Jen
I'm not sure of that 1841 one - think I'd pencil it in.
Skewy ~ Is the 1861 one RG9/169/38/75 (St Giles and Bloomsbury United Parish Workhouse) , aged 30, b. Wales? I read it as Sailor - compare the other Ss on the page and the Tailor lower down (John Thomas)
There's also this one in 1861 but not sure:
Esgair fach, Rhiw-hiriaeth (not far from Llanfair Caereinion)
RG9/4259/3/ 9
Lloyd
Robert, 69, mar, farmer of 61 acres, emp 1 man, b. Llanerfyl
David, s, unm, 28, farmer's son, b. Llanfair
Mary, serv, unm, 19, housekeeper, b.Llanerfyl
Mary Pugh, grd dau, 12, b. Llanerfyl
Robert Lloyd, grd son, 8 mths, b. Llanerfyl
Also there in 1851 with Robert entered as 'widower' HO107/2499/83/5
Haven't found them on the 1841 or 1871 so far.
This might fit with the marriage that I found in 1821 between Robert Lloyd and Mary Jones.
I've not found a baptism.
Gadget
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Thanks so much Gadget for your help.
Iam so new at this but already adicted
Kind regards
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Hi Jen
If you're new to Montgomeryshire, have a look at these pages:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MGY/
Gadget
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I agree Gadget, now I've put my specs on it looks like sailor in London.
Another question might be, if David married Mary in 1875, he would have been 44ish then, so had he been previously married? Or maybe Gadget, had he maybe been a sailor?
Skewy
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Tis odd, Skewy.
I would have thought that a tailor would have needed an apprenticeship.
Maybe he didn't know his father's name and just made it up for the marriage - some of my ancestors did that :-\
Gadget
PS - How old does he admit to on the marriage cert, Jen?
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Worked on Florence born 1870 and found this for 1871.
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Although it says Daniel, on the form it is David, a Tailor.
Skewy.
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In 1861 Mary is sister in law staying with William Thomas, in Kidderminster, Worcestershire.
She has with her children Robert 3 and Mary J 1. David is not with them.
Skewy.
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So when did they marry? Jen said 1875 :-\
Can you give the census refs, Skewy - year code, piece no, folio, page, please. It makes it easier to follow through.
Gadget
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Hi Gadget, the marriage is 1875.
But seems they maybe lived as husband and wife before.
Try this for 1871, Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3100; Folio: 86; Page: 30; GSU roll: 839571.
Off for our Anniversary lunch. Will look back later. :)
Skewy.
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Sorry had visitor.
Davids age on certificate is 44yrs, 10 Aug 1895 - tailor (bachelor)
Mary Boulter 39yrs (spinster)
Davids death certificate - 1895 qtr J 6d pg53
Died20 June 1895 aged 64yrs in Birmingham, UK
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So the occupation of Tailor matches the census returns we found.
1891 - RG12/2378/23 p13.
1881 - RG11/2976/114 p 21
1871 - RG10/3100/86 p 30
1861 - Mary Lloyd and children Robert and Mary J - RG9/2077/57 p 9
I cannot see a David in 1861 unless it was him as the sailor. Did they carry tailors onboard Navy vessels back then?
Skewy
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Hi Skewy
I was wondering if he learnt his trade while he was a sailor - but why would he be in London :-\
Also, a farmer's son becoming a sailor/tailor is not that usual is it :-\
Gadget
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Well if my father was a rich farmer I'd not become a tailor, but if you were not the eldest son, might not be enough work to enable him to stay on. I know the Navy had people who could sew onboard, for sails etc, but not sure you would call the tailors. Maybe the enumerator missheard the occupation.
my G-granfather was a tailor in Spondon Derbyshire, and Beeston Nottinghamshire, but learned his trade in Leeds.
Saying lodger at the workhouse makes it sound more like an old version of the YMCA than a workhouse as I know them as well.
The actual form says it is a Lodging House as well, so I'll go with that. However there are about four other Tailors there, but no other Sailors, so could be a slip of the pen, but might be something we will never know for sure.
Skewy.
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Aussie Jen,
I don't know if you're still active on this ...but anyway...
This David Lloyd is my wife's gr gr grandfather also. His daughter Annie being the gr gandmother married to Harry Piddington. I've had the same problem as you and by now you may have solved which Mary Boulter he actually married (there were two born in Leominster in the same year but with different parents). The David Lloyd I originally found had Benjamin as the father but with the right date of birth for the marriage. I have an electronic copy of the register (Birmingham Archives) if you want it. I can't resolve the 1861 Census there are three, one in London (a sailor), one in Wales with widowed mother Mary (ag labourer) and one in Wales with father Robert (farm worker). The only marriage I am sure of is the Birmingham one but that was after about 6 or 7 kids had already been born.
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
I am very sorry but Aussie Jen's notifications are not working, it looks like she has changed email address, sadly we have not been able to find a new address :'(
Regards
Sarah