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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: James - Cornwall on Saturday 19 September 09 01:09 BST (UK)
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I am trying to research the family of John Branwhite born 1883, Kensington. He married Nellie Alice Harris, and the couple eventually moved to Windsor. I have located him on the 1901 census, but cannot seem to find him on the 1891 census - which I was hoping would help me find his parents. I am also keen to find out where John & Nellie are buried.
Has anyone any ideas that might help me get around this ?
Thanks
James
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Hello
Cannot seem to find him 1891
The birth certificate of John would show parents.
John Branwhite born 1883 sept quarter Chelsea Greater London/ London/ Middlesex 1a 362.
The 1901 census states he was born Chelsea and boarder in Kensington.
John Branwhite married Nellie Alice Harris 1908 June quarter kensington Greater London/London/Middlesex 1a 357
Regards Pam
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Looks like he's indexed as John Brormwhite on Ancestry
Class RG12 Piece 24 Folio 129
Let me know if you require a transcription
Mick
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It looks as though this may be your John Bramwhite who was Baptised along with his siblings.
John Bramwhite Born 12 June 1883 Baptised 8 April 1885
Christ Church, Notting Hill Kensington and Chelsea
Parents were Frederick and Mary Ann Bramwhite
Address 167 Wormington Road Frederick was a Labourer.
Frances
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Just in case these were the other children Baptised on 8 April 1885
Frederick George Born 1 February 1879
Thomas Henry Born 30 October 1881
Hannah Born 23 March 1885
Regards,
Frances
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Hello
Well spotted Frances.
Looks like Brormwhite
1891 Kensington
Fredk Branwhite age 35 Chelsea london
Mary wife age 35 ironer(wash) born Yeading?
Fredk son age 12 rest born Kensington
Thos son age 10
John son age 7
William son age 4
Robrt son age 2
Edw?son age 8 months
Annie dau age 6
Pam
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Mary Ann Bolton married Frederick James Branwhite june quarter 1877 kensington Greater london/London/Middlesex 1a 54
1881 Kensington
Bransford Street
Fredk G Branwhite age 25 Gen lab born Kensal Road
Mary A wife age 25 Yedding or Yeading Middlesex
Fred G son age 2 Notting Hill
Thos H son age 5 months Notting Hill
Pam
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WOW!!! Thanks guys, this is just the information that I needed to allow me to take the Branwhite family back further - John Branwhite was proving a real stumbling block ... but hopefully, it will be full steam ahead from here!! ;) Should you stumble upon any further Branwhite info, I'd be thrilled to hear from you!
Thank you again for all your help.
James
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25th Jun 1877 at St Clements, Kensington
Frederick James BRANWHITE, 22, bachelor, labourer, abode 46 Bomore?? Rd, father Thomas Branwhite, shoemaker
Mary Ann BOLTON, 21, spinster, , abode 46 Bomore?? Rd, father George Bolton, brickmaker
married after banns
Frederick made his mark, Mary Ann signed
witnesses Thomas Branwhite, Emma Tukey
1861
Lily Cottages, st Lukes Chelsea
Thomas BRANWHITE, head mar 42, Shoemaker, born Middlesex, Shoreditch
Mary BRANWHITE, wife mar 47, Ironer, born Surrey, Horsleydown
Emma MORTON, dau in law unm 16, ironer, born Middlesex, Marylebone
next page
Robert BRANWHITE, son 16, born Middlesex, Clerkenwell
Martha MORTON, dau in law 12, born Middlesex, Kensal Town
John BRANWHITE, son 10, born Middlesex, Clerkenwell
John MORTON, son in law 10, born Middlesex, kensal Town
Frederick BRANWHITE, son 5, born ditto
Edward BRANWHITE, son 3, born ditto
Harriet BRANWHITE, dau 1, born ditto
RG9/39/114/31 & 32
16 Jan 1855 Parish Church Paddington
Thomas Edward BRANWHITE, full age, widower, Bootmaker, abode Kensal New Town, father Thomas Edward Branwhite, bricklayer
Mary Ann MORTON, full age, widow, , abode Kensal New Town, father John March, labourer
married after banns
both signed register
witnesses John March, Susan Thorn
Ian C
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Ian - thank you so much for that additional information - the marriage information helps me make sense of the census details, as they were puzzling me! Thanks!!! James
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Should anyone happen upon any burial records regarding the Branwhite family - Kensington/ Chelsea area ..or later, Windsor area, I'd be very interested to hear from you, as I'm interested in finding out where members of the family were buried. Thanks
James
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The term son in law and dau in law back then had a different meaning to what it does today, in that the Morton children would have been called that as they were Thomas Branwhite's step-children. Both partners have brought children to the marriage and then they have had three themselves together.
Would get a bit confusing, particularly with two sons named John of the same age.
Ian C
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Absolutely!!
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Probable first marriage is:
Sept 1841 Thomas Branwhite Bloomsbury 1 67
Thomas' first wife's name is another Mary Ann, born c.1818 in Holborn, died March 1852 Clerkenwell.
Probably Thomas's parents but not his baptism:
St Mary Haggerston
16 June 1836
Harriot Branwhite baptised to Thomas Edward and Ann of Tabernacle Square, Bricklayer
Born 15 June 1815
possible siblings:
Chatham St Mary
31 Oct 1810
Mary Ann (born 9 June 1805) and Susanna Sarah (born 16 Sept 1810) Branwhite - Thomas and Ann (no other details)
Gillingham St Mary
29 July 1805
Thomas Branwhite and Ann Akerman both single both of this parish
Its quite possible that the Thomas and Ann in the Medway area could you your Thomas Edward and his wife but needs more investigation
There is an Ann Branwhite burial at Shoreditch St Leonard on 30 Jan 1822 aged 39 years and a Thomas Branwaite burial in the same parish on 24 May 1830 aged 51 years, he was "of the workhouse".
I don't know who either your Thomas Edward senior nor the Thomas in the Medway area are.
I've been researching Branwhite for many years but have some dead ends like other researchers. The London Branwhites are unfortunately one of those dead ends.
Nicola
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St Botolph Aldgate
21 Jan 1838
John Mickelfield and Mary Ann Branwhite
her father is Thomas Edward Branwhite, builder
There is a Mary Ann Branwhite who is a witness of the following marriages:
1 Jan 1833
Susannah Sarah Branwhite and James Bakewell
Christchurch Newgate Street
27 Aug 1836
Harriet Ann Branwhite and Robert William McGregor
Hackney St John
Chances are its the same person.
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Nicola - thank you ...those are some interesting leads to explore.
Should anyone else happen upon any Branwhite info, I'd be thrilled to hear from you! Thanks again to everyone who has helped me so far!
James
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Can't believe this is just a coincidence:
Saint Peter Saffron Hill
23 August 1843
Mary Ann Branwhite - Thomas & Mary
Shoemaker, 12 Peter Street, born 4 Aug 1843
Susanna Bakewell - James & Susanna Sarah
Smith, 12 Peter Street, born 27 Oct 1833
Robert Bakewell - James & Susanna Sarah
Smith, 12 Peter Street, born 27 Oct 1840
Too much of a coincidence that a James Bakewell married Susanna Sarah Branwhite in 1833. So far haven't picked them up on the census, will have to have another look.
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Well found!! I agree with you ...surely it can't be a coincidence!! Shall be interested if you find them on the census. Thanks again for all your help. James
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Just stumbled across the thread as well as the other one. I wasn't quite with it last night!
Having a read through, if Thomas Edward Branwhite was indeed 51 when he died in 1830, that would give a birth date circa 1779.
I've had a look at the skeletal tree I've built and there are a number of Branwhite couples having huge family around that time in Lavenham, Suffolk - but no Thomas that fits that date ??? The closest I have noted (keeping in mind there are probably missing people and incorrect data, so I apologise now) is Thomas Branwhite born in 1783, second son of Roland and Susanna, nee Westrop.
Possibly him, possibly not him!
There is another man, Brooke Branwhite, who had at least twelve children, including several in the late 1770s and early 1780s, who could also have fathered Thomas Edward. Indeed, there is a five year gap between Priscilla (1777-1865) and Charles (1782-??) that could have had another child in it, but alas, if Brooke did have a son called Thomas, I have no record of such :(
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Thank you !!
I shall keep your findings on file ... you never know, someone on here might find the missing bit of evidence that might confirm the links.
Thank you so much for your help.
James
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Found a bit more info whilst trawling the FamilySearch website. I confess I don't know how accurate the transcriptions are, but they seem fairly good. There is this record:
Thomas Edw. Branwhite
christened 30th June 1779 in Lavenham, Suffolk
Father: Thos. (Thomas)
Mother: Mary Branwhite
Batch Number: C044442
I have no idea which Thomas or what Mary's maiden name is, but I hope that's of some help :)
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Well I'll be d***d, it is correct as I've just checked my Lavenham transcripts done many years ago from the original parish registers (not Cosford Database). I suspect I'd missed it 'cos hadn't been able to tie him in with any of the Thomas Branwhites in the Lavenham area at the time. My suspicions are that Thomas and Mary could be the pair in Bocking but I need to look into this a bit further. It would tie in with my theory that the Bocking Thomas is the son of Edward and Susan Branwhite, hence first child baptised in Lavenham. I'm sure I've got a date and place of marriage for the Bocking couple, need to check it out. They went non-conformist in Bocking. Names of the Bocking children would tie in, they had a Susannah, and Sarah Ursula, among others.
Nicola
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Coincidentally I posted a request just yesterday asking after the Bocking parish records in search of Thomas Branwhite of Bocking's parents :D I wondered where he fit in. I would presume his possible parents are Edward Branwhite who married Susan(na) Dansie? There are several entries on both IGI and FamilySearch for both couples and their children including the marriage of Thomas Branwhite and Mary:
May 26 1778
Thomas Branwhite, of this Parish of Bocking, Bachelor
and
Mary Polley (Garret?), of the same, Widow
I'm not sure if she is Polley/Garret - being a widow, Garret could quite possibly be her first husband's surname. Also, interesting that they went non-conformist, as that would explain why four of their children are recorded at the Independant Church, which I thought was odd.
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Unfortunately SEAX don't yet have the marriages online for Bocking that for far enough forward.
However, from Boyds:
1778 Bocking
Thomas Branwhite and Mary Polly
The 1795 baptism of Susannah does state her maiden name is Garrett. However there are some big gaps between baptisms so its possible she could be a second wife.
There is, having just checked, a marriage of an Isaac Polly and Mary Garrett in Braintree in 1774. Could be she was widowed young.
I think I can place the William Branwhite born Bocking in London in 1802, as I believe he may well be the William Branwhite son of brother Thomas mentioned in the 1802 PCC Will of Edward Branwhite (son of Edward and Susan Dansie).
Needs more research but I think James that is your Thomas Edward Branwhite, just need to confirm exactly who his father is. There is no marriage in Lavenham for a Thomas and Mary. Thanks to JacobeaM for spotting it!
Nicola
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I think we had an overlap in posting!
I can confirm that the Bocking baptism on the IGI are correct at that they are only ones there. I've also checked Bocking parish church itself and there are no more there either. Unfortunately due to being a bit wary with a certain website that hosts the non-confirmist registers, I am reluctant to post any more of the details I have on that family on rootschat. It isn't a lookup as such since I've got the information for my own research but ...
Nicola
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JacobeaM
Bit off topic, where did you get the details of the 1783 birth of a Thomas Branwhite to Roland and Susan(na) please? I haven't come across that unless its been missed and I've been through Lavenham, Long Melford, and their respective non-conformist churches too.
Thanks
Nicola
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I believe it was my Aunt who found Thomas' birth, although where I cannot say, unfortunately :-\ I haven't had the means to get to Suffolk to get search the original registers personally, whereas she might have. I think there may have been a mention on the Cosford Database? I have Thomas down as my g-g-g-g grandfather's (William, born 1782) second brother, between him and Charles (born 1786).
Having checked FamilySearch again (believe it at will!), it appears Mary Polley, nee Garret, was born in 1757 - more than old enough to have married in 1774 as the minimum marital age then was, as far as I can recall, about fourteen for girls. There seem to be unusually big gaps between her and Thomas' children (of which I count about five, if we take Thomas Edward as their firstborn); either missing records or they were especially cursed when it comes to loosing children.
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Unfortunately Roland Branwhite (husband of Susanna Westrop) only mentions his wife in his Will which is extremely unhelpful.
Shame the Cosford Database is down and the archived version doesn't have Lavenham on it. I don't have a reference to a Charles either but there are gaps in the registers for Roland and Susanna too. Dooh, yes I do, baptism 1800 in Long Melford although no birth date on his baptism.
Thomas and Mary Ann had at least 6 children, there is a burial of an Abraham in November 1793 an infant. He must be there's since they are the only Branwhite family in the parish.
Nicola
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I've been told via someone on GR that Mary Garrett was from Bocking so that could well be her. The baptism records are on SEAX, just not the later marriages. Unfortunately her burial in 1840 does not give an age.
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I have Thomas down as my g-g-g-g grandfather's (William, born 1782) second brother, between him and Charles (born 1786).
The NBI has a burial for Charles born 1786 ...
Long Melford
29 May 1786
Charles Branwhite infant
Would tie in since there is a baptism of one in 1800, probably a second Charles.
Incidentally, although I too have William born 1781/2 as Rowland and Susanna's son, have you found a baptism for him please? Can't remember how I linked him up with Rowland and Susanna. Wish I'd made a note on my file!
Nicola
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Again, lacking a definate baptism unfortunately. It would appear my and my Aunt's method's are rather slapdash (partly because I'm stuck with second hand internet transcripts for the forseeable future) ::) One of us quite probably got it off Cosford Database, wish I dearly wish wish was still up and running despite it's inaccuracies.
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Another piece of circumstantial evidence that suggests that Thomas Branwhite from Bocking must be the son of Edward Branwhite and Susan Dansie, is the fact that there is a burial of an Abraham Branwhite infant in 1793 in Bocking and Susan Dansie had a brother Abraham. Well they did like to keep it in the family. From memory I think Mary Garrett's father is William from info that someone on GR let me have, although not following this family since isn't my directline.
I'm not knocking the Cosford Database, just have found over the years that it has been relied on more than perhaps it should without people checking out the entries. The Cosford Database was very helpful in the beginning to our research but we forked out over £100 to get a copy of the Lavenham parish registers so we could check out what was on the database and take the research back further. OK in that light we're lucky but like the IGI, the Cosford Database is a transcript and errors can occur in both transcription and linking to other families. That said I miss it for seeing who Ray thought individuals were when I've not got access to the microfiche to look them up. Didn't always agree with him but that's my prerogrative :)!
Nicola
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Having re-read this thread, smudwhisk mentioned a Thomas Branwhite married an Ann Ackerman in Gillingham -a veritable stone's throw from Chatham! So I think we can safely conclude that the two girls born in Chatham are his, and and Thomas Edward Junior too :)
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I think I may also have found a few more children of Thomas Edward Junior's and his first wife, Mary Ann (whose maiden name may be Southey). By a combination of rarity of the Branwhite name and known location, FreeBMD throws up these births:
Sophia Branwhite (born September quarter 1842 in Holborn)
Mary Ann Branwhite (born September quarter 1843 in Clerkenwell)
John William Branwhite (born March quarter 1851 in Clerkenwell)
I also think there's an inaccuracy on the 1861 Census entry for Robert, as, if you go by his given age on it (16), he should have been born in 1845. He possibly was, as FreeBMD is incomplete, but as the name is uncommon in the Branwhite family, so any called Robert stand out and I did happen to discover a "Robert Thomas Branwhite" born in Sudbury, Suffolk (the home country) in the March quarter 1841 - notice his birth is about six months before Thomas and his first wife wed and far from the London gossips ;)
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http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=282135570492
my facebook group for the history of the branwhite name perhaps you might find there who u are looking for :)
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Hi James,
James Branwhite b. 1883 in London, son of Frederick and Mary Ann Bolton was my Great Grandfather....
How are you connected??? I too am trying to find the link between London Branwhites and the ones in Lavenham, Suffolk. Look forward to hearing from you.... Susie
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Hello Susie,
From the little research I have done for myself, the Lavenham Branwhites (from whom I descend via an Essex line) are related to the London Branwhites without a doubt, but I haven't yet worked out a clear line of descent. Many of the records on IGI are user submissions and thus have to be taken with a pinch of salt, although some may well be correct.
It seems though, as smudwisk deduced, that the London Branwhites descend via Edward Branwhite of Lavenham, who was born circa 1723, and his wife Susan(na) Dansie, whom he married circa 1749, also in Lavenham. If this is the correct line, their son Thomas, born circa 1753 in Bocking, Essex, gave rise to the London Branwhites.
As said though, these records are all user submitted and I haven't personally had the opportunity to hunt down and verify these dates and links :(
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I believe Thomas Branwhite and Mary Polley (nee Garrett) were my 4x gt grandparents. I am a descendant of their daughter Mary Ann who married William Shave in Bocking in 1813.
Mary Garrett's first husband may have been the Isaac Polley who died in Bocking in 1775.
I was delighted to read that Thomas Branwhite probably came from Lavenham as I could find no earlier trace of him in Essex although, being a beginner, I thought I might have missed something!
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afmed,
You'll find that pretty much every Branwhite comes from Lavenham somewhere along the line :) The earliest Branwhite who was born in Lavenham of which I have record is Rowland, born circa 1629. He and his two (and maybe more) brothers established the family in the village until the early 20th C or thereabouts, since when they seemed to have died out in Lavenham.
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The earliest Branwhite who was born in Lavenham of which I have record is Rowland, born circa 1629. He and his two (and maybe more) brothers established the family in the village
There is I am afraid no evidence that any of the original Rowland's siblings ever lived in Lavenham, all later Branwhites are descended from Rowland and his two wives, Sarah probably nee Dogget (as Rowland refers to his brother in law Dogget in his Will) and Ann Munnings. There is the use of the names Branwhite, Bran(th)w(h)ite and Branford/Bramford in the early generations with the descendents of the first marriage ultimately settling on Branwhite and the descendents of the second marriage using Branford/Bramford. Rowland had two brothers but one died in Thrapston in Northamptonshire aged 27 and the other died in Molesworth in neigbouring Huntingdonshire!
Afmed, I do think your Thomas in Bocking is most likely the son of Edward Branwhite and Susan Dansie born in Lavenham around 1756. There are no Branwhites in the Bocking registers prior to Thomas' 1778 marriage. Thomas son of Edward and Susan nee Dansie had a brother Edward who died in London in 1802 and left a PCC Will. In it he left his brother Thomas £100 and after other bequests the residue was left to his nephew William son of brother Thomas. While this doesn't confirm it is your Bocking family, Thomas did not die until 1811 and what looks likely to be his eldest son Thomas Edward Branwhite was baptised at Lavenham. Having been through most of the parish registers in the Lavenham area of Suffolk and many below the border in Essex, I'm fairly happy I have most of the Branwhite descendent lines correct. Thankfully a number of Branwhites left Wills which does tend to sort out a lot of the different lines!
Nicola
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smudwhisk - may I ask which brother died where :) ? I still only have the barest bones (for the foreseable future), so I wasn't aware that they had no affect and it was only Rowland who had children in Lavenham.
I really wish I could get to Ipswich - all these Branwhites are maddening ;D