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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: skurrie on Wednesday 16 September 09 12:49 BST (UK)
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Just wondering if someone had access to, or knows anything about ;-
Enrolment records from Scots College, Edinburgh, Scotland.
l believe in the year of 1856 William, James and David HARPER were enrolled pupils of that institution. l have no information apart from that they were enrolled that year, and was hoping there may be record somewhere with perhaps information of the children. ( home address, parents, occupations, etc.)
In 1851, the family was noted as living in Campsie Stirlingshire, and was just wondering exactly what year they may have started, finished, and perhaps even moved to be near the school.
Anything at all found would be a greatful addition to my research.
My many thanks in advance.
Skurrie
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Hello skurrie
What is the source of your information about these boys being enrolled at Scots College. Was it a comtemporary document written in Scotland in the 1850s or was it something that was written much later when memories of the precise name of the institution might have faded? How old were the boys - were they school age or likely to be at university?
The word 'college' in 19th century Edinburgh usually meant Edinburgh University. It could be that a Mr Scot had started up a private school and rather grandly called it Scots College. I cannot find it on a directory for 1852/53 that I have to hand but will try to remember to look it up in the 1856 directory next time I go to the library.
Jessie
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Hi Jessie,
Thanks for replying.
My cousin a few months ago put in a request with The Genealogist UK for some paid research to be done. Included in the information they returned to her was the following;-
"• Enrolment records from Scots College, Edinburgh, Scotland in the year of 1856 indicate that William, James and David Harper were enrolled pupils of that institution."
No further information was provided on this bit provided, and if she paid another £147.50, documented evidence would be provided.
l felt that she had already paid out enough money, and was hoping l could help out by trying to find a kind researcher who may have further knowledge.
The boys details l have are as follows.
Sons of David Harper and Elizabeth Findlay.
William HARPER b.abt 1844 STIRLINGSHIRE
James Theodore HARPER b. 18 April 1846 CAMPSIE, STIRLINGSHIRE
David HARPER b.abt 1849 CAMPSIE, STIRLINGSHIRE
Jessie, l do hope this helps a little, and l appreciate and thank you for any help.
Skurrie
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Hello again Skurrie
I am intrigued by this. If enrollment records still exist they may be either in some archive or with a school of a different name that is the successor to Scots College. There is no school of that name in Edinburgh nowadays. I will come back to you after I have had the opportunity to do a bit of digging!
Regards
Jessie
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Hi Skurrie, something to think about. This family didn't appear to have had the kind of money that would have allowed them to send 3 boys to a college. I see that David snr. was Irish, was he perhaps RC, and the boys were sent to a church school?
It might be worth contacting the Roman Catholic Church in Edinburgh to see if they had a "Scots College"
Val
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There is a Scot College in Glasgow, a Scots College in Rome and one in Paris and they all train RC priests.
Buzancy18
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Hi Buzancy, yes these triggered my line of thought.Wonder if there was one in Edinburgh in the 1850s
Val
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Thank you Jessie, Val and Buzancy18 for replying.
You've certainly provided some food for thought.
The 1851 and 1861 Census show the family at Campsie, Stirlingshire. l'm not quite sure how far the college/school would have been, if they boarded perhaps?. They may indeed have been Roman Catholic, even though James Harper in Australia was noted as Methodist, as the rest of his descendants there.
As far as money, James Theodore HARPER b. 18 April 1846 CAMPSIE, STIRLINGSHIRE was a Remittance man. What he did , for him to leave and travel to Australia is still a mystery. Money he received regularly from his family allowed him to purchase a nice house in the better part of town in Tasmania Australia. When the money stopped, he went into depression and committed suicide.
Family has noted that the boys father David and Uncle William had a small family business ‘Harper Bros Inc.’, a singeing house in 1861.
Also their cousin Robert Harper b.1842 Glasgow Scotland established Robert Harper & Co., trading in tea, coffee and spices from the East Indies and later in oatmeal and flour in Australia in 1870s.
From this l assumed the family may have had money, indeed enough to send off to a school/college.
Once again, l thank you for your replies.
Skurrie
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Hi Skurrie, I'd say the boys boarded or perhaps stayed with relatives. 40/50 miles too far to travel. Do you have them on the '61 census?
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Hi merryhow,
The 1861 Census show the family at Campsie, Stirlingshire. Thanks for giving me an idea of how far the distance.
Now to find the correct College/school.
Skurrie
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Try searching under "Scotus College". Not sure whether that's connected but worth a try.
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It won't be Scotus Academy as it was founded in 1953.
Buzancy18
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Yes, Scotus College is a much older institution. You might enquire here:
http://www.scottishcatholicarchives.org.uk/
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Yes, Scotus College is a much older institution. You might enquire here:
http://www.scottishcatholicarchives.org.uk/
Hi Imber,
Thanks for your help. Had a look at the site you suggested and didn't find anything to help unfortunately.
Skurrie
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To those kind people who have posted replies, l thank you.
l have been in touch with a cousin, who believes that it was GLASGOW ACADEMY that
William HARPER b.abt 1844 STIRLINGSHIRE
James Theodore HARPER b. 18 April 1846 CAMPSIE, STIRLINGSHIRE
David HARPER b.abt 1849 CAMPSIE, STIRLINGSHIRE
were enrolled in.
Even though paid research by a professional? had noted that it was Scots College.
If there is anyone who may be able to help with perhaps enrollment information for the Glasgow Academy it would be appreciated.
Skurrie
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There is a book on Glasgow Academy which may have some reference to the Harpers if you are lucky as it apparently has lists of prize winners, old boy memoirs etc.
Glasgow Academy History First Hundred Years 1846-1946 published by Blackie &son Glasgow , 1946
It is currently for sale on Ebay ::) but you might be able to find a copy in a library.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Glasgow-Academy-History--First-Hundred-Years-1846-1946_W0QQitemZ300348187540QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090916?IMSfp=TL090916159001r29109
There has also been a more recrent book published:
MacLeod, Iain M., The Glasgow Academy 150 Years, (The Glasgow Academicals' War Memorial Trust, 1997)
Hope this helps
Kirsty
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There is a book on Glasgow Academy which may have some reference to the Harpers if you are lucky as it apparently has lists of prize winners, old boy memoirs etc.
Glasgow Academy History First Hundred Years 1846-1946 published by Blackie &son Glasgow , 1946
It is currently for sale on Ebay ::) but you might be able to find a copy in a library.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Glasgow-Academy-History--First-Hundred-Years-1846-1946_W0QQitemZ300348187540QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090916?IMSfp=TL090916159001r29109
There has also been a more recrent book published:
MacLeod, Iain M., The Glasgow Academy 150 Years, (The Glasgow Academicals' War Memorial Trust, 1997)
Hope this helps
Kirsty
Thanks Kirsty,
l don't like Ebay, but will try out the Libraries close to home here in Australia. It may be worth while even purchasing it, as l do know that 2 Harper cousins Andrew and Robert studied there about the same period l'm looking at. They both went off to become prominent people in Australia.
once again my thanks,
Skurrie
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Hi Skurrie, why don't you try contacting the school?
GLASGOW ACADEMY
COLEBROOKE ST
GLASGOW
G12 8HE
Tel 0141-334-8558
Fax 0141-337-3473
Val
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Hello skurrie
Going back to the post where you explained the source of the information about 'Scots College, Edinburgh' it seems to me that there is something distinctly odd about it. If you pay a professional genealogist to do research for you, normally you would agree terms in advance - how many hours of research you are prepared to pay for and at what rate - and would receive the results of this research. In this case what your cousin has apparently received is a reply to the effect that something interesting has been found and full details will be given on payment of a substantial extra payment! The 'something interesting' relates to enrollment records at a school in Edinburgh that no-one has ever heard of! It seems highly unlikely that enrollment records for an obscure 19th century school would still exist and would be worth the sum demanded.
Have you considered that this might be some sort of genealogical scam? I would recommend trying to establish the bona-fides of the genealogist before thinking about paying out any more money.
Regards
Jessie
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Thanks to Merryhow and Jessden for replying.
l think l have about enough to help with this query. It appears a lot of what the paid researcher provided was indeed misleading. It is definately the Glasgow Academy.
My thanks to all for your time and assistance.
Skurrie
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I do like to stir things up and confuse.
Could it have been the Scottish Naval & Military Academy in Edinburgh?
http://genforum.genealogy.com/scotland/messages/29697.html for some details.
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HI
In 1861 the 2 older sons (aged 15 and 17) are bleacher's labourers in Campsie. Only the youngest aged 12 is a scholar which of course just means he is at school. He is resident in Campsie at the date of the census which suggests he wasn't "away at school" in Glasgow.
In 1861 their cousins (Williams boys) are in Glasgow working as a plumber and a cabinet maker.
I seriously doubt these boys went to some posh school in 1856! Would you go away to school and come back and work as a labourer? I think the genealogist has indeed scammed your sister. She should write and ask for more information I think!