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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tyrone => Topic started by: Anihana on Tuesday 15 September 09 05:40 BST (UK)
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Hi guys
I am super stuck, have been for weeks now & I'm about ready to give up! :-(
I'm open on suggestions as to where I should go from here.
According to LDS I have the following:
Andrew Wall & Eleanor Gillis married in Dungannon on 11 Jul 1837.
Andrew Wall was born 30 Sep 1817 in Dungannon & died 12 Aug 1847 in Dungannon.
Eleanor Gillis was born 06 May 1819.
I have the following info:
Andrew & Eleanor had 6 boys, Joesph, William, John, Robert, James, & Samuel.
I have Eleanor & the 6 boys arriving in NZ on the Black Eagle in Novemeber 1861. The passenger list has them down as WARD but it is DEFINITELY them & that was a spelling mistake. Based on an old newspaper article I have I understand Eleanor's brother John Gillis summoned them - they stayed with him in Remuera, Auckland for a while before going in different directions in NZ.
I then found a marriage for John's DAUGHTER Sarah Jane Gillis here in NZ - it say's John is from Dromore.
From the Griffiths Valuation of Ireland I can see a John Gillis in the parish of Arboe - also along side him are a Mary & James - I have found an article talking about a John & Mary Gillis here in NZ that fit's that as well.
In that same list in Arboe there is also TWO people with Wall as surname but it's a John & Henry - whether there is a connection I don't know.
I'm really stuck - I really can't find anything solid in Ireland at all :-(
Any suggestions?
Cheers
Andy Wrenn
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Anyone got any suggestions? :-(
Cheers
Andy
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Bumping up posts isn't really allowed. The reason there were no replies is probably the fact that very few records exist for that period.
One of your biggest clues is the IGI details- is it submitted or extracted? If extracted- what is listed as the source? (most likely church records) If church records- this is the next thing you should follow up.
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Bumping up posts isn't really allowed. The reason there were no replies is probably the fact that very few records exist for that period.
One of your biggest clues is the IGI details- is it submitted or extracted? If extracted- what is listed as the source? (most likely church records) If church records- this is the next thing you should follow up.
Ah ok - sorry.
The IGI thing say's
"Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church. No additional information is available. Ancestral File may list the same family and the submitter."
So can I simply email them via their website & ask?
I'm starting to think Eleanor's maiden name was spelled GILLIES rather than GILLIS - some of the old newspaper articles I have has it GILLIES although this hasn't really helped me find anything more.
Cheers
Andy
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Have you checked all N.Z. resources (death certificates, gravestones, newspaper obituaries, etc.) as well as other descendants to see if they have more details?
You could see if your local LDS library has Ancestral file and see if there's more information on it. However, submitted data can be based on real records or assumed data from the submitter (although, having exact dates in the record makes it look more promising).
Wouldn't worry too much about spelling of surnames- it's even possible to have a person's name spelt 2/3/4 or more different ways in 1 document!
There are lots of Co. Tyrone resources stickied at the top of this board. If Andrew and Eleanor were married in a Presbyterian Church 1st Dungannon marriages start 1789 and 2nd Dungannon start 1825. However, early Presbyterian marriages usually give little detail: date, groom, bride (and sometimes names of 2 witnesses, even more rarely townland, have never seen parents listed).
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Have you checked all N.Z. resources (death certificates, gravestones, newspaper obituaries, etc.) as well as other descendants to see if they have more details?
To to a certain extent I have - based on what info I had when I started. I most definitely have Eleanor Wall & the boys arriving in NZ in Nov 1861 on the black eagle ship.
I know they came over on instruction from Eleanors brother John Gills/Gilles. John had a farm - he lived in Remuera in Auckland. I know this based on a newspaper article I have in which one of the boys (John) had a dispute over money in which a lot of this is mentioned. Interestingly his uncle John Gillis/Gilles represented his nephew in the hearing asking all the questions etc.
I have found plenty on son Joesph Wall - he settled in Hastings, NZ & was a successful farmer, married a Mary Hooper from Taita in Lower Hutt. Joesph is buried in Hastings cemetery with his wife Mary & one of his sons. As mentioned there are plenty of old newspaper articles mentioning him.
Samuel the son ended up down in the Taupo area as a solider in the NZ armed constabulary, he married a Maori lady & had two children, I have found he headstone in Maori cemetery & it mentions Samuel - he however left her & went back up to Auckland & I believe I have found his grave in Onehunga, Auckland.
The article say's William the son resided in Onehunga when this court case was on & John was staying with him.
I have NOT been able to find Eleanor's DEATH in NZ - in fact other than the passenger list showing her arriving & the article mentioning her her I have no other info on her in NZ.
You could see if your local LDS library has Ancestral file and see if there's more information on it. However, submitted data can be based on real records or assumed data from the submitter (although, having exact dates in the record makes it look more promising)
Actually I've just found the address for our local LDS so I guess I'll go see if they can tell me where their info came from.
There are lots of Co. Tyrone resources stickied at the top of this board. If Andrew and Eleanor were married in a Presbyterian Church 1st Dungannon marriages start 1789 and 2nd Dungannon start 1825. However, early Presbyterian marriages usually give little detail: date, groom, bride (and sometimes names of 2 witnesses, even more rarely townland, have never seen parents listed).
I'll take another look - I just haven't found ANYTHING other than the LDS thing with them in Ireland. Even though Andrew is buried in Ireland, in Dungannon I believe I still can't seem to find anything.
I have a copy of an old letter requesting the book "Wall Family in Ireland 1170-1970" by John Brown so I assume the family is mentioned in there somewhere - that book is no longer in print & I just can't find one :-(
Cheers
Andy
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Actually I've just found that A second edition of The Wall Family in Ireland 1170 1970 was published in October 2009!!
I guess I should buy it!
Cheers
Andy
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Fantastic- do let us know if you get any more information on the family in Ireland.
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I have since discovered some more :-)
Eleanor Gillis was from the Townland of Allen, Desertcreat, Tyrone. She had a sister named Sarah Gillis.
Sarah came over to NZ a bit earlier than Eleanor - Sarah came over her with her husband James Rutherford. The resided in Auckland, New Zealand.
I can't find much on Allen though. Apparently the family researcher who has now passed got the death certificate for Sarah & it listed who here parents were - I think I'll have to do that. Anyway apparently she published a message in the Belfast Telegraph which was read by someone who asked it to be put in the Courier paper - this was read by some of Eleanor's descendants a Mrs Totten & her daughter, they live in the actual house where Eleanor was raised!
Still no luck with Andrew Wall, I've now heard he was a solider at some stage......
Cheers
Andy
Cheers
Andy
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There's a Samuel Gillis listed in the townland of Allen in Griffith's Valuation (1859).
www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
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Oh and all the boys are listed as being born at Feroy, Dungannon.......
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Eleanor WARD is listed in Griffiths (1860) as renting a small amount of land and a house in Feroy,Dungannon.
Regards
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slightly off topic but is Gillis name local to Co. Tyrone?
Baird
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Not sure how far back Gillis goes in Co, Tyrone but if you search for 'Gillis' in civil index there are 466 entries (highest number for Irish counties) so I suspect they've been there a good while.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails;t=searchable;c=1408347
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Thank you for that. I'll open a new topic in Tyrone.
Baird
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Ok I got Sarah's death cert & it says her & Eleanors parents are Robert Gillis & Eliza Black.
James Rutherford & Sarah Gillis were married in 1839 at Sandholes, Tyrone.
I was hoping to get some lead out of her parents but alas I've not come across anything :-(
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/KiwiMR2/img078.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/KiwiMR2/img079.jpg
Cheers
Andy
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Update!
I just found them coming out to New South Wales (Australia)
Sarah's mother is ELIZABETH Black, father Robert Black, and when she were on their way they had their son Robert Rutherford with them - he was 13 months old.
It's pretty clear that she was from Desertcreate in Tyrone. James is listed as a native of Cookstown. They arrived on a ship named Elizabeth on 23 Aug 1841.
James parents are listed as John & Margaret.
He was 22 & she was 21.
Cheers
Andy
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Hi
Since confirmed it is indeed GILLIES, not Gillis.
So Eleanor GILLIES married Andrew WALL, Sarah GILLIES married James RUTHERFORD.
Cheers
Andy