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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: joelhall on Sunday 13 September 09 21:42 BST (UK)
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Hi guys, hoping someone could help on this one as I've been at a dead end for months.
Here's what I have so far...
According to censuses of 1851, 1861 and 1871, Thomas Hall was born in Cronton, Lancashire, the ages/dates according to the censuses are:
1841 - 35 (1806)
1851 - 56 (1795)
1861 - 63 (1798)
1871 - 74 (1797)
His age is given on his death certificate as 77, on 6th July 1874.
Between 1851 and 1861 at least he was a farmer living at Tanhouse Farm, Widnes.
He married Elizabeth Haddock in Runcorn, 13th Mar 1829. From the 1851 census she appears to have been born around 1803 (age 48) in Halton/Runcorn. IGI also gives a result for an Elizabeth Haddock born to parents William Haddock and Elizabeth Prichard (my Elizabeth's parents seem to be the same though I have no maiden surname for the mother) who married a William Prichard in Runcorn, 28th July, 1823, so could possibly be the earlier marriage of the same lady, as her birth matches Thomas' wifes christening date, both in Halton.
On the 1861 census, he is at Tanhouse Farm, with wife Martha, though I've no marriage to her, nor death of Elizabeth yet.
Their children were:
Mary b. abt 1829
Peter b. abt 1830
Thomas b. 1832
John b. abt 1834
Robert b. 1840
Sarah Ann b. abt 1843
He died in Hereford, where he was lodging in 1871 as a retired farmer.
Now for the blanks I've been stuck on:
Place and date of birth proper
Parents names
Siblings
Death of Elizabeth
Marriage to Martha
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Joel
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http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Farnworth-near-Prescot/index.html
This is the link to where I found Thomas Hall, son of George Hall and Jane of Cronton baptised 20th Oct 1805 at St Wilfrid Farnworth near Prescot.
Also , same church, 9th November 1794, Thomas Hall son of John Hall and Mary of Cronton.
There are lots of Halls listed, hope you find something to help.
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There certainly are plenty, I've found several including Thomas' from Widnes, Frodhsham and Farnworth so far, but still not sure I should stop searching.
Thanks for the link I'll check it out :)
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There are a number of Deaths listed for Elizabeth Halls in Bolton between 1851 and 1861. I found just one marriage on Free BMD featuring a Martha :-
March Qtr 1860 Bolton volume 8c page 356 Thomas Hall is listed and choice of two brides - Martha Unsworth and Mary Tonge
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I fear that's not the right Halls. They were still in Widnes during that period.
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Shame!
I don't have access to Cheshire records. Good luck with it, don't give up, you'll get there eventually
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Hi,
Freebmd has Thomas Hall and Martha Bowler in December Qtr. 1854 Warrington Volume 8c page 190.
Cheshirebmd shows that the marriage took place at St. Pauls Warrington and Martha had the former name of Gerrard.
I seem to remember that Martha was born in Warrington on the 1861 census.
Regards,
Mo
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Hi
Have you considered BETTY HADDOCK
Born Sept 29th 1802 Christening: 31 OCT 1802 Croston Lancashire, England father Richard Mother Catherine
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No, her place of birth and date are correct, and backed up by the census returns. Croston is further north, near Preston. The most trouble comes from finding her husbands (both) backgrounds.
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Certainly could be the Martha who married in Warrington. I've done some searches and have nothing definite yet, but I'll be following that up.
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Going back to Lancs OPC there's a marriage at St Elphin Warrington 27th Sep 1802 of William Haddock and Betty Pritchard. (St Paul's doesn't appear to have been transcribed on that site yet.)
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Ah excellent, that seems to be the correct marriage.
Thanks xtoner :)
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Hi Joel
This LDS submission(Carefull with these) 1805 b Elizabeth Haddock & marriage 1823 Runcorn
1) If she remarried in 1828 Her surname would have been her Husbands name Pendleton (Widow) not Haddock maiden name
Elizabeth Haddock
Birth: 21 Jul 1805
Halton, Cheshire, England
Father: William Haddock
Mother: Elizabeth Prichard
Marriage
Spouse: William Pendleton
Marriage: 28 Jul 1823
Runcorn, Cheshire, England
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Precisely why I'm confused. I have the record for this on ancestry ad also her marriage to Thomas Hall, though cannot find another Elizabeth Haddock which 'fits'.
The only possible theories I have are:
Elizabeth was a bigamist (doubtful shed do this in the same place)
Elizabeth and Pendleton divorced, she lost her legal protection which came with marriage, and with it her married name.
To add to the confusion, Thomas Hall and Elizabeth Haddock married in March 1829, their eldest son was baptised in November 1830. However on the 1841 census, he has a sister, a year older (i.e. born at least 1829). It seems Peter was born a while before his christening, and so assuming a normal term pregnancy, Elizabeth was most likely pregnant before the marriage. I've no record of Mary's baptism so cannot be sure of date of birth, however, which fits.
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Hi Joel
I would check the parish registers around Widnes and Runcorn out first either at the Library or archives. If not LDS family Mormon church Libraries nearest you, order the film, look for another Elizabeth Haddock not in IGI and bearing in mind Family search is only an index to these films.
As for ancestry LDS submissions are only LDS church members doing their 6 generations back to re baptize them open to mis-judgment.
As for Bigamy and divorce! - Divorce was for the rich! as most commoners were too Poor -illiterate even more with sibling and a mother leaving them?.
Bigamy meant a sever whipping! a very unlikely happening!
If there is a William Pendleton death? also did you look for siblings of this 1823 marriage of William and Elizabeth Haddock/Pendleton, and if any are with Elizabeth Hall in the 41/51census in adult age.
William Pendleton death is what you need or another Elizabeth Haddock bapt not in IGI.
Hope this helps
Good hunting and LUCK!
Dobby
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To be fair I have no idea what their social class was nor their financial situation.
The only evidence I currently have is:
marriage of Elizabeth & William
marriage of Elizabeth & Thomas
the missing info I still can't track down is:
death for William
census records for William and Elizabeth
birth records for any other Elizabeth Haddock in Halton, Cheshire
I've also had another idea - where might one obtain a bastardy record?
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I have however found the following record of a christening:
William Pendleton, 6th September 1829, parents William & Elizabeth Pendleton, Halton, Cheshire.
This is where the trail runs cold however. Bit much of a coincidence to be different Pendletons, but they ever crop up after this. ???
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Hi Joel
Yes I can see your problem. Pre 1837 is always hard after all the census info.
There are a few ways of detection.? Social standing- their religion-occupation or trade-Wills-Deeds -Window tax-Relief tax -Poor law> Settlement/Removal order- Tide Housing- Tithe Apportments -Allotment rents-Land tax-Solicitors records-Hearth Tax (1600's). Etc-Etc.
As I said earlier! Only Archive offices or Libraries hold this infomation. Depending on your location of adobe as to and ability to visit these aforesaid places.
MY advice
Rootschat have members who live local to these resources to look up and may help you but!! you need to find them. So clear your mind of your own ancestry a while!, read posts similar to your own case in rootschat-look for people doing research in Runcorn /Widnes but most the posters who answer and are native of Runcorn. Learn by reading roots chat library-Read LDS Library info on parish register- Brickwalls and other websites Ie any Archive office online learning! info-'Find my past' website as loads of free advice on this!
Sometimes just taking a break from your own ancestry and a fresh approach helps. (Can't see wood for trees etc.)