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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: richard sadleir on Friday 11 September 09 04:55 BST (UK)
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I have a considerable amount of information about the various branches of Sadleirs who lived in Co.Tipperary since the 1660s. From about 1750 the spelling stabilised at Sadl E I r.
Pleased to assist anyone from my records
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Hello Richard
I am wondering if you have any information on Mary Sadleir (Sadlier) born Abt 1818, married Micheal Breen Abt 1839, baptism records for their children show them living in Glenough Tipperary. Mary and Michael, along with their family, came to Tasmania, Australia in 1853. Any information you may have on Mary or her family would be greatly appreciated.
Patricia Breen
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Hi Patricia,
I regret that I cannot help you with your enquiry about Mary. I have looked through all my family records,and checked the Sadleir entry in
Burkes Irish Family Records( 1976) with no success. I have a number of Marys recorded but none fit the dates.
I also have no family records connecting to Glenough.
Although I suspect the family came from only two sources in the 16th Century they were originally Protestant but some branches became Roman Catholic along the way. As was unfortunately common in Ireland this meant that they completely separated from each other. Almost all my records and sources are Protestant and it it is highly probable that your Mary was RC.
There must have been a huge exodus from Ireland in the early 1850's due to the famine. My great-grandfather and two of his brothers came out to Australia in 1852, One of which also went to Tasmania. A cousin of his was already in Tasmania.
I wish you success with your further searches
Richard Sadleir
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(by kind permission of Noel Farrell)
Tipperary Town Roots 1901. (taken from origional census)
Nelson st (50)
Hodges; (Sadlier Alicia, Helen)
Rathneaveen;
Sadlier Richard & Maria; Thomas, William, Mary, Patt, Freddie, Martin, Josey.
Rathanny;
Sadlier Jane. W. J.K.E.
Scalaheen (3)
Sadlier Alice, Annie.
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Hello Richard,
I am wondering if you have information about a William Steven Sadleir born in October 1812 in Tipperary. He immigrated to Canada and died in 1850 in Drummondville, Quebeck Canada.
thank you,
smperky, USA
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Hello Patricia,
I am related to the Sadliers in Glenough and I am in the process of tracing my family history. I have a Mary born in May 5 1855. Her Parents were Patrick Sadlier and Ellen Quirke. She was baptised in CLONOULTY/ROSSMORE Parish. I do not have any other Mary's, but the name Breen rings a bell. If I find anything in my searches I will pass it on to you.
Kind Regards
Richard
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Hi Richard,
Do you have the descendants of the 7th child of Clement Sadlier and Grace Chadwick "Richard". I know he had a Son Clement who had a Son Richard who married in 1783 in Scalaheen. If you could expand on the children of "Richard", "Clement" and "Richard" it will probably fill in my missing link.
Kind regards,
Richard Sadlier
Australia
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Mary Sadleir 1818-1886 was my gg grandmother.
Michael Breen 1805-1869 and Mary married in Clonoulty Parish in 1840. Later, they settled in Westbury, Tasmania.
Cousin Martin Breen and Honora and their four children arrived in Tasmania on board 'Great Tasmania' on 27 Jan 1857. They settled in Westbury as well.
Michael and Mary's daughter Margaret (b.1853) married Martin and Honora's son Patrick (b.1846) in 1870. Patrick used to sing a ditty about being an Upperchurch man. I think that's in the Sadleir area of Tipperary.
Margaret and Patrick had thirteen children. Some children died in infancy. Their youngest child was my grandmother. She attributed her charmed life to being the 13th child of Maggie a 13th child. Maybe the double dose of Breen and the luck of the Sadleirs helped as well.
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Thanks for your reply re Breens/Sadliers. My husband is also from Margaret and Patrick's line. I have 15 children from this family (as you mention, some died in infancy), and thought my husband's grandfather was the youngest of the family (1893) if there is a younger sibling would love to hear about her.
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Thanks for your reply PAB.
Yes, Herbert and Ernest were younger.
I haven't really been researching the Breens to any extent. I stumbled across some information from a family name search on Rootsweb and a Google search of the name Mary Breen directed me to this forum.
It is interesting to know that there are family connections scattered far and wide.
My family has a photo of Mary Sadlier if you would like a copy.
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Hello Patricia,
I am related to the Sadliers in Glenough and I am in the process of tracing my family history. I have a Mary born in May 5 1855. Her Parents were Patrick Sadlier and Ellen Quirke. She was baptised in CLONOULTY/ROSSMORE Parish. I do not have any other Mary's, but the name Breen rings a bell. If I find anything in my searches I will pass it on to you.
Kind Regards
Richard
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To RichardAS, in Australia, re Clements & Richard.
I think I can provide the information you wish but it is a bit too complicated to do on Rootschat. If you will email me at (*) I will get it back to you. Apologies for not replying sooner, I rarely check this site.
Richard
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The West Australia; 20/1/1926
Wedding; at a little church at Busselton,
Miss Blanche Sadleir, youngest dtr of late Mr. James Sadleir and Mrs Sadleir,
Brookville Estate Tipperary Ireland,, to Mr. Henry Willmott, son of late Mr Henry Willmott of Basildene, Margaret River.
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Hi Jack. The "West Australian" marriage entry is most interesting. I have Blanche in my files and knew she was in Australia about 1925-1927. I also knew, though my fathers comments many years ago that we were connected to the Wilmotts. But I didnt know of this marriage. Thankyou for the post. :D
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Other names in that clip include;
The bride was given away by Mr. Hugh Brockman.
Miss Madge Willmott was bridesmaid
Mr. Bob Brockman was bestman
Mrs. Theodore Hodge (cousin of the bride)
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Jack
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The Sunday Morning Herald; 21/10/1856
The Bill of Indictment against James Sadleir.
These bill have been found by the grand jury at Clonmel Assizes against James Sadleir for conspiracy to defruad.
The following is an abstract of the Indictment.
The fitst count that John Sadleir, the deceased, and James Sadleir, on the 11th April 1856 at Clonmel, conspired by false pretences and subtle means and devices to cheat such as her Majestys subjects resident in England as they might be able to induce to become shareholders in the Tipperary bank of large sums of money.
The second count, conspiring to cheat the English parties by false pretences that the paid-up capital of the bank was £100,000 and that all the shares had been issued and were vested in bona fide shareholders and that John Sadleir and Robert Keating were then directors; they, they said, that John and James Sadleir , well knowing the contrary to be he fact.
The third count charged that John and James Sadleir by false pretences, conspired to cheat the depositors.
The fourth count alleged a conspiracy to cheat the depositors by the false publication of false balance sheets, falsely representing the paid-up capital of the bank to be £100,000.
The fifth count charge a conspiricy by false pretences that the bank was solvent and able to meet its engagements.
The sixth count was for a conspiricy by false pretences and public devices to cheat the English shareholders of large sums of money.
The seventh and eighth counts were also to the effect that the conspiricy was entered into to cheat the English shareholders and the facts connected with the balance sheet were specially set out.
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Jack
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Happy St. Patricks day to all,
Richard
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Happy St. Patrick's day to all,
Richard, I had seen your post previously and while searching Ballintemple graveyard near Dundrum looking for my relatives the Lacey's. I came across some sadleirs. You may have seen them before, but here are the following
Beatrice Sadleir, Ballydoyle. Born in February 1892, died June 1935. Intered Cromer England.
Caroline Hayes Sadleir, Ballydoyle, born June 1892, died April 1938.
Erected by Lizzie Sadleir. Sorrowful rememberance of her devoted husband John Hayes Sadlier, Ballydoyle, Fethard, co. Tipperary. Who died 12th of March 1902, Age 53. Also in rememberance their fond child Florence Sadleir. Who died 21st of October 1902. Age 3 years and 9 months.
Mrs Elizabeth Sadleir, died 13th of May 1953, age 84 years. Her daughter Daisy died 13th of June 1968, age 69 years.
Mrs Frances Stokes nee Sadleir, died 3rd of April 1990, age 90 years.
On a separate tomb the following.
Beneath this tomb are deposited the remains of Mrs John Sadleir of Bonnerea, who departed this life February 11th 1860, age 50 years.
And also
Erected to the loving memory by his loving wife Bridget Sadleir Alias Cormick. Who will deplore his loss and he was deeply regreted by all who knew him.
May the Lord have mercy on his soul.
Both these inscriptions on the same tomb.
Hope this may help.
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Hi Richard,
Many thanks for that. My Grandfather Patrick Sadlier is buried in Balintemple graveyard and I have seen his grave. I know that this grave belonged to the Sadliers of Bonnerea.
Kind Regards
Richard
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Richard,
I am trying to trace how I am related to the Sadleirs in Ballydoyle. I am presuming through Lizzie Sadlier. My family name that is connected to these Sadleirs is Kennedy originally from Portnard/Ballyvohereen/Cappaghmore in Co Limerick. I have a relation Dr Matthew Sadlier Kennedy died c. 1889 who was GP in Golden and lived in Tipperary. One of his daughters was Mth General of the Loretto Order. Family history says we are connected to John Sadleir of the Tipperary Savings Bank fiasco but I'm not sure if this is correct. Can you help me in any way?
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Lizzie Sadleir is my great grandmother.
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Hi Ginger1,
Do you know what Lizzie's maiden name was? However, I now think that my connection may go further back? Have you come across a Johanna Sadlier from the mid 1800s and are there any Howard connections in your Sadleir family tree? Also, where is Bonnera?
Thanks
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I have seen her birth name recorded as both Gorman and O'Gorman. So far no Johanna or Howard connections but I will let you know if I come across either.
It is likely that Bonnera is an anglicised version of the name of a townland in Tipperary. Townlands are the smallest administrative units in Ireland, smaller than a parish. You may find that townland on the searchable index of place names in Ireland: http://logainm.ie/. The site will initially appear in Gaelic but there is an English language option on the top right corner. You can search by county and there is a map feature for each place listed on the site as well as links to additional information, including the meaning of the place name.
I hope this information helps.
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Hello all, new to site!
I am descended from Richard William Ralph Sadleir of Sadleirswells (1819-1876), my gt gt grandfather. Does anyone have ANY information about him beyond census returns?!
He put Sadleirswells on the market in 1854, although it was I think in the end only leased to John Massy. Was his decision to part with the family home connected with the Tipperary Bank scandal then about to blow up thanks to his cousin John Sadleir (as refered to in Jack2227's clipping above)? What happened to Sadleirswells? John Massy renamed it Kingswell House - did it remain out of the Sadleir family?
RWRS himself was declared bankrupt in 1868 after a disastrous venture into chemical manufacture in St Helens and he ended his days as a bank clerk. It seems to have been a lfe of slow, steady decline! His 5 children were born in Ireland, Preston, Wales and St Helens.
RWRS was eldest son of Richard Sadleir and Mathilda Frances Massy, grandson of Richard Sadleir (who bought Kingswell and renamed it Sadleirswells) and Eleanor Toler, great grandson of Nicholas Sadleir of Golden Garden and Lachen (d 1762) and his wife Anne Ballard.
Happy to share anything I have, and hoping for anything you have on Richard William Ralph Sadleir and his family.
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Hi everyone,
Bonerea is an area beside Annacarty, which in turn is about 5 miles from Dundrum, Co Tipperary.
The Sadliers finally left Hilly Glenough a few years ago, and moved down to flatter pastures. One of the family (Jack) married the teacher from Glenough National School (probably 80 years ago), and moved initially to Dublin and then on to London.
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Dundrum is where Killenure Castle is - ancient home of the Cooper family. My great great grandparents were the above RWR Sadleir and Eleanor Wilhelmina Octavia Cooper of Killenure. RWRS was of Sadleirswells, not Bonerea, but presumably there is some connection?
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Hi Colin,
Re: Kingswell House. Only recently, I discovered that I had cousins living there since the 1960's. I think the house was in very poor repair and it was demolished.
I wonder if you have any further history of the house other that what I found on http://www.landedestates.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/search.jsp?q=kingswell
Many thanks,
mm
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Hi mm,
No, all my info on Kingswells/Sadleirswells is from internet searches - that site and couple of other hints. Are you or your cousins related to Sadleirs or Massys at all, or were they just living in the house? Shame it got demolished, but when things are too far gone, what else can you do? My other ancestral Irish big house was Blessington House, which is now underneath a brand new shopping centre and dormitory town for Dublin apparently - when I went a few years ago you could still see the landscaping of the grounds, although the building was long gone.
All the best,
Colin in Edinburgh
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Thanks, Colin.
Sorry no relation to either family that I'm aware of.
The Irish Land Commission probably were involved in dividing up the estate.
Have you seen this site?
http://www.irelandgenweb.com/~irltip/townlands/Sadleirswells.htm
I am not sure if the 3rd pic is the same house??
mm
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It's the greenhouses for the same house! The tree on the right of the 2nd pic is the same as the tree on the left of the 3rd - you can overlap them and get the orginal one picture they talk about. Somewhere online I found an aerial survey of the grounds which clearly shows that curving driveway to the house.
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Hi Colin,
Many thanks for the additional information. Is that a pond in the foreground in front of the greenhouse?
So it would appear that the Wheeler Massy family were still there until 1901 and Major G. H. Pomeroy Colley (Tipperary magistrate) was living there in 1911. Major Colley married in 1906 and died in 1923 at the age of 53. How long did he live there for, any idea?
mm
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No, sorry, I don't know about the Colleys although I think I am related to the Massy in question as well as to RWR Sadleir. Very small circle, that Protestant Ascendancy lot!
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Hello,
I am wondering if someone can tell me the relationship between John Sadleir of Shronell the disgraced financier and John Sadleir of Brookville, who went to Oz and caught Ned Kelly. I am not related to the Sadleir family, so I hope no-one will mind me popping up on this thread to ask, but I have been reading about John Sadleir the banker recently and the connection interested me.
Many thanks,
Marion
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Hi Marion. Although I started this chat some years ago I am afraid I have been a bad boy and have rarely checked back. However, by mere coincidence I saw your enquiry today New Years Day here in NZ !!!
The connection that you are after is as follows
in 1665/6/7 a John Sadler lived in Ballyryan, Sollohodmore just north of Tipperary town. he is a shadowy figure who seems to be have a descendant of the famous Sir Ralph Sadleir but that is another story.
John had four sons.. John,Richard,Clement and Samuel. The first descent you are interested in goes as follows :
Clement ( Ballintemple)
his son was Clement William ( Shrone Hill)
his son was William ( Shrone Hill )
his son was Clement ( Shrone hill ) married an RC heiress Joanna Scully
so descendants are RC.
he had four sons including John the banker and swindler and James who also fiddled the books !!
The second descent you are interested in starts with the fourth son Samuel above ( his estate was Shanballymore)
his son was Richard ( Scalliheen)
his son was Richard ( Tipperary Town)
his son was Richard ( Holycross & Scalaheen Hse ) He was interesting because he married his second cousin Grace Sadleir, a descendant of the Clement of Ballintemple ( above) !!!
his son was James ( Brookville)
his son was John ( b.Brookville, emigrated to Victoria Australia and was the policeman in charge at Ned Kelly's arrest
This John was my great grandfather
So there you have it. Do not hesitate to ask for more information about this connection if you wish
Happy New Year Richard
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Hi Marion. Although I started this chat some years ago I am afraid I have been a bad boy and have rarely checked back. However, by mere coincidence I saw your enquiry today New Years Day here in NZ !!!
The connection that you are after is as follows
in 1665/6/7 a John Sadler lived in Ballyryan, Sollohodmore just north of Tipperary town. he is a shadowy figure who seems to be have a descendant of the famous Sir Ralph Sadleir but that is another story.
John had four sons.. John,Richard,Clement and Samuel. The first descent you are interested in goes as follows :
Clement ( Ballintemple)
his son was Clement William ( Shrone Hill)
his son was William ( Shrone Hill )
his son was Clement ( Shrone hill ) married an RC heiress Joanna Scully
so descendants are RC.
he had four sons including John the banker and swindler and James who also fiddled the books !!
The second descent you are interested in starts with the fourth son Samuel above ( his estate was Shanballymore)
his son was Richard ( Scalliheen)
his son was Richard ( Tipperary Town)
his son was Richard ( Holycross & Scalaheen Hse ) He was interesting because he married his second cousin Grace Sadleir, a descendant of the Clement of Ballintemple ( above) !!!
his son was James ( Brookville)
his son was John ( b.Brookville, emigrated to Victoria Australia and was the policeman in charge at Ned Kelly's arrest
This John was my great grandfather
So there you have it. Do not hesitate to ask for more information about this connection if you wish
Happy New Year Richard
Hi Richard,
Happy New Year to you too! And actually I was amazed how quickly you replied, given I only posted my query on New Year's Eve; thank you so much for the info.
So it seems these two were 4th cousins once removed (if I've counted right, these connections do my head in :) ) and also had a slightly closer connection through Grace?
Marion